(OR) Portland officer sues Glock for millions

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Drizzt

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Portland officer sues Glock for millions

A Portland Police officer who was injured while firing a handgun has filed a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against the manufacturers of the gun and the ammunition.

Officer Florin B. Pirv was taking a qualification test in March 2004 with a .45 caliber Glock 21 when the “breech/cartridge feed ramp fractured, causing backward propulsion of hot gases, hot air, and shrapnel to be blown into Pirv’s face, body, and hands,” according to the suit.

The lawsuit names Glock and two ammunition-makers, Federal Cartridge Company and Alliant Technosystems, also known as ATK. Glock is based in Georgia. The ammunition-makers are based in Minnesota.

None returned phone calls and emails seeking comment.

Pirv was one of two Portland officers injured while firing .45-caliber Glocks in March 2004, prompting Portland Police Chief Derrick Foxworth to order the recall of the weapons carried by 230 officers.

The bureau replaced them with 9mm Glocks.

Pirv’s suit seeks $50,000 in compensatory damages, $3 million for pain and suffering and $50 million in punitive damages.

Pirv is assigned to a patrol shift, according to a Portland Police spokeswoman.

http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/...gs/olive_oregonian_news/archives/2006_02.html
 
Sorry to hear this...never heard it before and I live in Portland and have friends on the police force but it does not suprise me. I hope he wins. As i have said before...I do not care for Glocks.;)
 
PlayboyPenguin said:
Sorry to hear this...never heard it before and I live in Portland and have friends on the police force but it does not suprise me. I hope he wins. As i have said before...I do not care for Glocks.;)
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With friends of the 2A like this...
 
SomeKid said:
With friends of the 2A like this...
Click to expand...

One- I was clearly joking...notice the ;) or is that too subtle for you.

Two- Even if I was serious, how is it against the 2A to hold a manufacturer liable if they build and unsafe product and an innocent person is injured? I bet if it happened to you the dollar signs would over ride your pompousness (is that a word?).
 
Hmm... I've never been a glock fan either. Ive heard rumors about the kb problem.
Theres a difference between sueing because the companies gun was used by some guy to shoot some other guy, and doing it because their gun blew up from being poorly built.

While Im a firm believer in the right to bear arms, I dont think it should shield gun makers any more than the first amendment shields the companies who build faulty radios.

A gun thats more dangerous than it needs to be, causing injury to the user or malfunctioning when its needed most, does not exactly help the cause.
 
I'd like to know exactly what happened to cause the kb. The .45 is a relatively low-pressure cartridge...sounds like an ammo problem.
 
LiquidTension said:
I'd like to know exactly what happened to cause the kb. The .45 is a relatively low-pressure cartridge...sounds like an ammo problem.
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He shouldn't get one thin Austrian Deutchmark unless there was something clearly defective with either the gun or ammo and even then his demands are ridiculus.
There's a calculated risk everytime you pick up a firearm and shoot it. That's why we stress the importance of wearing eye and ear protection.
 
I've known quite a few Portland officers. Living in Portland such as I do, and most of the ones who are actual firearm enthusiests have the same complaint. It's not that they really have anything against Glock, but that almost every department around Oregon approves Glock and ONLY Glock giving officers no recourse. Alot of them have trouble with the grip angle of the Glock. I've heard that it is supposed to be a good thing because it allows a faster draw or what have you, but Glock was designed in Europe. Europeans don't grow up with firearms like we do. Most people here grew up with the 1911 which is a spectacular firearm, every bit as reliable as a Glock. I'm not talking about the ancient ones, but modern 1911's. The grip angle is quite different. The few guns Europeans have had have always had steep grip angles whlie Americans have had shallow grip angles. Whien instinct takes over one naturally points to the sky here. Although grip angle is not the only problem. Glocks you cannot change your grips(although I can't change the grips on my beloved Springfield XD either) some people just don't like the feel of the glock. despite finger groobes and this that and the other, ergonomics can only go so far when you keep the basic structure. The XD was designed differently. The XD is every bit as good as the glock and in some cases even better. Glocks have a bit more accuracy, (I hate Glock to be honest and would never own one but credit must be given where credit is due regardless) but the XD's accruacy is still well within what is required for law enforcement. I admire Glock's attempts at it's "torture" tests but there isn't much torture involved. So they leave it in sand for 3 days. They also clean the sand out, they don't oil the gun, but any reasonable quality service weapon is going to be able to function with lack of lubrication, as it should be. Springfield has taken their XD and just shook the sand off of it and then shot it with no malfunctions. People have tried with Glock and while they functioned more then long enough for a sustained firefight, they still failed. Basically what I am getting at is the durability of a Glock is more then a bit overrated. After a million rounds a Glock heads for the trash. After 2 million the XD is still going. Plus the XD is more comfortable in the hand, although felt recoil is a bit higher due to the shallower grip angle. Each gun has it's advantages and disadvantages. Both guns are more then reliable for police duty. However Glocks shold be limited to the lower pressure calibers that the Europeans have experience with. The .45 Glock is NOT a .45ACP it is the .45GAP. I can understand a department wanting a modern polymer pistol in the hands of all officers. Restricting officers to a single brand is pointless, especially in the case of Glock. While Glock offers different models they are all exactly the same. Only real differences are caliber, and size. Give officers another option. While this whole "rant" if you will may seem to be off topic I think it comes down to the core of the problem. BY refusing officers any options Glock as the monopoly and they know it. As long as their general quality levels remain reasonable, they can let their quality control and other things slip. Glock has been starting to cut corners for years. This is not the first incident regarding a glock exploding in the users hand. There have been over 1000 Glocks, but due to the modern trend of nobody taking responsibility for their actions, people don't let this kind of thing out, so it goes unnoticed and the problem only gets worse. Here's to Glock for for daring to jump into uncharted waters with a revolutionary new concept. While I've never liked your guns personally, until the past 5-10 years they have always been extremely finely made firearms, but you can do better. Here's to Springfield for making the XD, the same modernization, with some enhancements in certain area's, and bringing the modern pistol an American flavor that American shooters can transition to far easier then a Glock. Some people are more comfortable with a Glock some are more comfortable with an XD or a 1911 in their hands.

In the officers case I think he is justified for suing Glock. While the amount may be a bit on the high side he probably won't be awarded that much. I think the first figure of 3 million is about fair, the 50 million is not. Should be dropped to an absolute maximum of 5. It's one thing to sue for faulty design, it's another to sue a company because some jackass used their product in the right way. Do we sue the auto manfufacturers everytime some nutjob runs down a family? Nope.

Car, gun. Both tools. Each with a different purpose. Guess which one is more deadly, AND is easier to obtain, and less restrictive?

Rev. Michael

P.S. I apoligize for the long post, but I'm a bit tired and I tend to get abit sidetracked at times as can be seen from my other postings elseware.
 
I don't like Glocks, but...

I do wonder what the deal is here. Like Liquid Tension said, .45ACP is a low pressure round, mostly we hear internet stories about .40S&W. I also wonder if the rounds used had been A)handloaded or B)chambered many times and the bullet was set back, increasing the pressure.
 
stevelyn said:
He shouldn't get one thin Austrian Deutchmark unless there was something clearly defective with either the gun or ammo and even then his demands are ridiculus.
There's a calculated risk everytime you pick up a firearm and shoot it. That's why we stress the importance of wearing eye and ear protection.
Click to expand...

I respectfully beg to differ. Officers on patrol aren't wearing eye/ear protection. No one expects them to and every gun manufacturer knows that.

Would you say the same thing if it happened to him during a shootout?

Of course, if was using handloads that's a different story.
 
bogie said:
Why is he suing Alliant? Maybe he cooked up some of his own handloads?
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Alliant makes a lot more than powder for reloading. Alliant Techsystems, Inc., also known as "ATK" is the biggest ammunition manufacturer in the U.S. ATK owns the Federal, CCI and Speer brands, for example. ATK also manufactures neat stuff like spacecraft and precision-guided bombs. Federal Cartridge Company is a subsidiary of ATK.
 
kirkcdl said:
I saw photos of that pistol,he's lucky he still has his hand...
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Um, probably not. When have you ever heard of a pistol kb resulting in the loss of a hand? .40 and .45 Glock kbs are usually a case failure due to the case not being supported by the chamber at the ramp. Damage to the shooter may include cuts and burns. This is what this sounds like by the description given.

While noted that the .45 acp is a "low pressure" round, it is still more than enough pressure to break apart Glock guns.

bogie said:
Why is he suing Alliant? Maybe he cooked up some of his own handloads?

I don't see a violent kaboom all on its own... He maybe had a squib/bang...

Training issue.
Click to expand...

You don't see a kb all on its own? Are you familiar with Glock pistols at all? The unsupported feed ramp problem isn't rare.

Why suing Alliant? You are kidding, right? The officer was using the gun to qualify with the kb happened. Since when does Portland PD allow officers to quality with handloaded ammo? However, it isn't going to be an ammo problem. The ammo part of the suit is probably just part of the umbrella of lawsuits filed in hopes of getting big money. The officer may yet also sue the department for having officers use guns with a history of this particular type of catastrophic failure, sort of like officers have sued departments for being forced to drive around in Crown Vics that burst into flames when struck from behind. Strangely in the Crown Vic suits, you never hear of the maker of gasoline being sued, but yet the ammo maker is being sued.

Maybe a squib? No. As noted, it was a “breech/cartridge feed ramp fractured."

The attached pics are of another .45 acp Glock that had a case failure at the unsupported chamber over the feed ramp. The extractor, mag catch, and trigger assemblies were all broken up. The mag was forcefully evacuated from the gun via the hot gasses and destroyed mag catch. In the A42A pic, you can see the blown case as it was in the gun before with disassembled it. The case is in the last image.

The shooter suffered minor lacerations on his fingers (mostly from trigger as I recall) and some minor burns. Glock replaced the frame and parts at no expense.
 

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Father Knows Best said:
Alliant makes a lot more than powder for reloading. Alliant Techsystems, Inc., also known as "ATK" is the biggest ammunition manufacturer in the U.S. ATK owns the Federal, CCI and Speer brands, for example. ATK also manufactures neat stuff like spacecraft and precision-guided bombs. Federal Cartridge Company is a subsidiary of ATK.
Click to expand...

Then I hope to see nano-technology enabled heat seeking bullets for our armed forces and LEO in the not-too-distant future!
 
The .45 Glock is NOT a .45ACP it is the .45GAP.

Wrong. The glock model 21 is chambered for the 45ACP cartridge.

I didn't realize the G21 also had the unsupported chamber like the G22.
The grip angle doesn't point well for me anyway, so no glocks in my future.
 
Wow, fantacmet, I have never seen so much BS in one post! That's amazing.

P.S. Paragraph breaks are much appreciated by readers.
 
FYI: Message sent out to all agencies by Portland PD.
_________________________________

CATASTROPHIC FAILURE GLOCK MODEL 21
***** SAFETY INFORMATION *******
REQUEST NATIONAL BROADCAST

PER PPB TRAINING, PLEASE READ AND DISSEMINATE THE FOLLOWING NATIONAL TELETYPE: PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU ADVISES ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES OF TWO INCIDENTS OF CATASTROPHIC FAILURE DURING FIREARMS TRAINING. BOTH INCIDENTS INVOLVED GLOCK MODEL 21 (45) AND FEDERAL 230 HI-SHOK PRACTICE AMMUNITION. THE FAILURE IS DESCRIBED AS FOLLOWS:

BOTH OFFICERS STATED NO NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE UPON FIRING. BOTH HANDGUNS HAD CASINGS EXPAND AND FAILED TO EXTRACT. THE GASES ESCAPED BY BLOWING A HOLE THROUGH THE SIDE OF THE CASING TEARING AWAY THE BOTTOM HALF OF THE BARREL AT THE LOCKING LUGS, BENDING THEM DOWNWARD AT APPROXIMATELY 30 DEGREE ANGLE. THE GASES CONTINUED THROUGH THE TRIGGER HOUSING AND MAGAZINE WELL, DESTROYING BOTH COMPONENTS COMPLETELY. ADDITIONALLY THE UPPER WAS SEPARATED FROM THE LOWER, BLOWING EACH UPPER SEVERAL FEET FORWARD OF THE FIRING POSITION. BOTH OFFICERS SUFFERED ONLY MINOR INJURIES FROM SHRAPNEL TYPE DEBRIS. PPB IS TEMPORARILY SUSPENDING ALL USE OF FEDERAL 230 PRACTICE AMMO PENDING INVESTIGATION.

ANY AGENCIES WITH LIKE INCIDENTS PLEASE CONTACT SGT. MIKE LEE AT PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU¹ TRAINING 503-823-0820 OR 793-9389
 
Why on gods green earth are people even bringing up handloads? :banghead:

Are thier any major metro PD's that use HANDLOADS for official firearms training? :confused:

Are people simply trying to build thier post count? :confused:

Guns fail. Factory ammo fails. Basically ????? HAPPENS.

Sucks that it happened, but come one, reloads? :banghead: :confused: :banghead: :confused:
 
Drizzt said:
Pirv’s suit seeks $50,000 in compensatory damages, $3 million for pain and suffering and $50 million in punitive damages.
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I hate it when clients listen to scumbag lawyers who say "you'll make millions for that scratch!"
 
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