Portland OR PD to stop using Glock .45

[JohnKSa]

Dean,

I can't remember where I first read that the issue was improperly modified G17s in the initial PPB incident. If that is not the case, you might want to change the following quote on your site:

"It should be noted that PBB is the same agency in which one goof caused another goof's issued Model 17 to discharge in its holster during a PR24 training exercise back in '90!"

The way I read that it says that both "goofs" were PPB's.

I'm curious, and you're just the man to answer this question--How many Glock 21 kB!s have you documented in the last decade or so?

Also, why did you make me type in those quotes from my Glock manual?

John

 

[chas_martel]

> which is a big no-no in Glock barrels.

Not shooting lead is not a problem with Glocks.

It has to do with polygonal barrels.

I don't understand why people get misled on this point

 

[Dean Speir]

May I respectfully submit, JohnKSa, that if you "can't remember where (you) first read that the issue was improperly modified G17s in the initial PPB incident," then you might want to stop making any such assertion.

Also, there's no need to "change" anything on the website… as I just suggested in another thread, you might look into brushing up on your reading comprehension skills… how you can imply from "one goof caused another goof's issued Model 17 to discharge in its holster during a PR24 training exercise back in '90!" that the Model 17 was "modified," is beyond me. Yes, both were PPB MOS… is that somehow significant to you?

I'm curious, and you're just the man to answer this question--How many Glock 21 kB!s have you documented in the last decade or so?

Well, your delamations about "recycling" withstanding to the contrary, since the Models 21 were belatedly introduced in latter 1990, we've in excess of three dozen, some of which were clearly and admittedly a result of faulty reloads or poorly remanufactured rounds, but some with "Glock-recommended" factory rounds, from the one with a Winchester STHP with a Government agent's personally-owned pistol in September '91… the 22nd or 23rd round through the gun… to the recent PPB failures. I have a number of conventional images, particularly two different Models 21 at Gunsite in 1994, but the ones on which you seem to have based your assumptions, are all digital and more easily, and faithfully, mounted… I think if you look more carefully, you'll note at least five distinct ones there at present.

…why did you make me type in those quotes from my Glock manual?

1. To make sure we were on the same page (version).
   
2. Given your track record of inferring verities where none were even implied, it was hoped that you would figure out that what was stated was not quite what your were reporting.

 

[moxie]

Definitely sounds like double-charges to me, added to the unsupported chambers, added to the potential for increased pressure from lead bullets used with polygonal rifling. Then there's the possibility that these guns might fire when not completely in battery. Not very comforting. Progress?

Then there was the Star PD, .45 ACP, out of production for some years now. Officers Model size, 25 oz. Total reliability with any ammo remotely resembling .45 ACP. (The round does have to fit in the chamber.) Factory, reloads, jacketed, lead, shotshells, Blazer, Glaser, +P, foreign, domestic, it takes them all. Easy to maintain. Nice safety. Good sights. Accurate. Nice trigger. No grip safety. Inexpensive to boot. How we've progressed.

Oh, the PD has a fully supported chamber, except for a tiny notch cutout at the 12 o'clock position that permits visual verification of a loaded or unloaded chamber. Nice touch. The only "upgrades" it ever needed (maybe) were some Pachmayr rubber grips and some Wolff springs after 10,000 rounds or so.

Would that someone would bring them back. (Mine are not for sale.)

 

[JohnKSa]

Dean,

I didn't say that I read that the G17's were modified on your site--I said I couldn't remember where I read it. Therefore, your mental gymnastics, trying to determine how one could get from what is posted on your site to what I said, are pretty pointless.

I still think that the statement about "goofs" on your website is ambiguous and I did initially read it as tacitly supporting the "modification theory" but obviously never considered it the source of any such theory. Thanks for the clarification.

36 documented G21 kB!s? Do you have information on how many of those involved only "original high quality factory ammunition."

BTW, I never accused you of recycling kB!s. What I was referring to was the number of times I've seen a post on one of these forums trumpeting "another Glock failure" which turned out to be a reference to a years old link. For the record, I've never accused you of being intentionally deceitful, about the most critical statement I've made about you was that you tend a bit towards the sensational at the expense of absolute technical objectivity.

Since I'm still not seeing it, would you be so kind as to point out the contradiction between my statement and the passage from the Glock manual.

John