Organizing Indiana RKBA

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Oh, man, El Tejon, you mean I went to TX disarmed week before last and I didn't need to be? Rats! --And hooray for next time! It will be nice to go shooting down there with something I can hit the broad side of a barn with!

If there will be a FTF meeting for IN gun-rights folks, count me in. I'm in Indy. (And I work in the media, but way way behind the scenes).

--Herself
 
Sweet sounding plank El Tejon.

I could never express this any clearer without boring a person to tears and a beer.

Update: I spoke to a senior member of 2nd Amendment Patriots for 5 min. I will speak again at leanth. I do not see a new effort differing greatly from that groups efforts. Looks like they are on the same page as many of us.
 
Jay, perhaps I failed to make myself clear and inadvertently angered you, please allow me to clarify: governmentally-mandated training is a fraud. It is a barrier to entry to one's civil right to carry a weapon and a chokepoint for governmental regulation.

I have attended many gun schools (over 600 hours now) and am among the foremost advocates of personal training at THR and THL before that. However, I refuse to allow the government to control my right with shifting subjective standards, cost barriers, inter alia. Please understand this is only my opinion (like I matter).:D

Her, yes, Texas finally recognized us in November. It only took me since January of 2001 to get this ironed out.:D We have it thanks to our friends in Texas who moved the recognition agreements from their state po-po to the Texas Attorney General.

tx, the more the merrier. We need to learn from our fellows in Virginia and Texas and shake off the inertia that being defensive brings.

The best defense is to attack. When we take an objective, we counterattack. Identify a problem, educate the people, activate the gun owners and light a fire under the General Assembly, repeat as necessary!:)
 
Well, yeah... I was angry. My background and attitudes did not lend themselves to a response the other day.

I see your point, and you have a valid one. I think I also have a valid point in being concerned about those who would buy a handgun, carry it, and barely know how to load it, much less be termed "safe" with it......... not to mention proficient. I'm not going to divert this thread with this discussion, but I wouldn't mind having it another time/place.

Thanks for whatever your involvement was in the reciprocal agreement with TX. I heard about it very quickly, as I still have family there.

Jay
 
*Worried about thread shift? You're talking to the King of thread shift:D*

Jay, looking back I should have been more careful in specifying governmentally mandated training. There have been several articles posted on this topic here and reports from our allies in states like Texas or Minnesota where training is a condition of acquiring the CCW license.

Jayb, of course your concern is valid and should be every rational person's concern. The situation that you describe (persons unable to operate their weapons) is manifested in law enforcement as well as civilian circles as any graduate of firearms training schools such as TR or LFI (LFI-1's video of "Shorty").

The question we have presented is HOW to address your sane and logical concern. I believe there is a better way to obtain what we all desire.

Internal controls are better than external. As you probably have seen in law enforcement (my speculation based on your writing style) if someone, oh, say a criminal defendant, is "ordered" whether drug/alcohol counseling or anger management it is not as effective as counseling that a person wishes to pursue. Same applies to firearms training.

The solution is to change the culture. Make gun safety/firearms training the "cool" or "in" thing to do and the culture will drive more and more to do it. Supply creates its own demand, having the trainers available is part of it as well as writing insightful and entertaining reviews of gun camps(one time at gun camp) such has been done here at THR or the brilliant and sage reviews of KSFreeman at The Firing Line.

Governmentally-mandated firearms training defeats this attempted culture shift in two ways. First, it becomes a burden rather than something fun and educational. Second, it becomes limiting in that, as you as a trainer know, that education never ends; the attitude becomes meeting a requirement and ending the training experience. "Well, got my class, I'm done."

Jay, we need you and your experience in any coming push. Never forget this is just my opinion about this narrow topic and I know what cops say about opinions, especially from my kind.:D We agree on far more than we disagree; many roads to Enlightenment, we just want the General Assembly to chose the right ones!:uhoh: :D

You are quite welcome for any hand I had in the Texas-Indiana reciprocity. However, the credit really goes to our friends in Texas who moved the authority from state po-po to the AG and to THRer Graybeard who told me the score in Tejas and what buttons to push.
 
I'll be glad to help in whatever capacity I can. Bear in mind that my diplomatic skills have never been in demand, and aren't likely to improve. :rolleyes:

I can arrange for a range weekend for us if desirable......
 
txgho1911 said:
I met a man a few days ago in a gun shop who allowed his carry permit to expire. He was at a DNR range with his family. Being there without a valid license, he was ticketed. I do not know details of the ticket. Judge asked if his gun was confiscated and it was not. Judge stated that it should have been. A new license in hand did not negate the ticket and bias was displayed in his ruling.


Was he just carrying at the range, and not shooting?
You don't have to have a license in Indiana though to shoot at a range. You are required to bring the gun to the range unloaded with the ammo in a separate container. So that doesn't make sense.
 
He was there to shoot

He was there to shoot and a gunny who lives close to there has countless times people lose the gun and get cited.
PDO does have part of the website updated. One desctiptor present for mosts states recognized by TX is (High Confidence) except for Indiana as listed as (Medium Confidence).
I would be confident that most if not all TX LEA do not convey s full list of states Liscenses recognized.
Hell seems a lot of people who do not know the law assume TX is open carry and has been for houndreds of years. Well Jim Crow grew up in TX also just like so many other states. I should know being a TX native.
 
Making progress

My better half has no clue I am stirin the puddin. I am gonna be in so much trouble!

I need feedback here and there.
http://www.packing.org/community/la...s/listview/6526
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191849
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171508
http://community-4.webtv.net/Second...ndmentPatriots/
http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=30&t=218062
http://thearmedcitizen.net/forums/s...32871#post32871

Dates
So many are working through the week. I am shooting for a Sat 1/28 or 2/4. Maybe a 1PM or 7PM meeting time. Please respond in the thread so it doesn't get filtered in my mail.
 
txgho1911 said:
He was there to shoot and a gunny who lives close to there has countless times people lose the gun and get cited.


Someone legal needs to investigate this. This sounds to me like a scam they're running. I've read countless times you do not have to have a license to carry your weapon to a place for repair, your business, or to a shooting range.
 
Application or enforcement may differ

In Indiana to move your handgun you need to have a LCH. There are two licenses. One is for the general carrying of a handgun for self-defense. The second is a qualified license required for hunting and target. If you go to a DNR public range with a handgun unlicensed, you may or may not find any trouble. Range officer may not be an enforcement officer. He may or may not warn people that are unlicensed. If a DNR or other, LEO wants to check if people shooting handgun they can and do issue citations and confiscate handguns.
In some states, the car or pickup is considered an extension of your home. Some states (TX) have legislated that in car is to be assumed traveling as travel with a handgun is legal. MO made it legal to keep a handgun in the car without a license when they passed their CWP legislation.
 
IndianaDean said:
You don't have to have a license in Indiana though to shoot at a range.

You do if it's a handgun. At least on DNR properties. The COs check. Got "carded" with my husband once.

I will keep those times and dates "open" on my calendar. Where though?
 
Dates and places.

JayB chimed in about 1pm rather than later.

PDO member Minuteman32 told me he might have a meeting room at the Speedway city hall available.

I went around to the different posted sites and requested more feedback. I understand a process to gather a group of folks together who have no social connection whatsoever to create a lobby and campaign support "club or committee".
I know there are many others who never post on a board who may follow many different events or issues discussed here. I would ask for your participation as well and even if you are not a member of any of these boards please send me a note about your interests in this.

I am assuming right now that any effort from Central Indiana and all other corners should be in full cooperation with The 2nd Amendment Patriots. I have spoken at length with a group founder who may have many years of name recognition and political support already under their belt. From my talks with Jim Tomes, there I see no reason for another focus group like this. I have asked for documentation detailing accomplishments and successes. This group is very loosely unorganized and wishes to stay that way. This allows for:
No dues
No book keeping
No irs reporting of any kind
I do believe discussions and issues can be passed easily enough at the range or via e-mail most of the time.
I still see everyone who is willing to work on lobby and campaign efforts as vital and required. Actually making the calls and standing up in legislative committee meetings and voicing our fears and concerns with urging folks who are on our side to stand for what they believe in or campaigned on. I am asking for serious people willing to work away from the keyboard and without the carry gun.

Ok you lurkers if I have anyone considering this that are not on the board please email me directly.
[email protected]
 
Plans for now

I plan to attend a 2nd Amendment Patriots meeting on Jan 28. I will gather all the info I can with regard to past and present activities and sponsorships. If everything is acceptable to share or re-distribute to others in Indiana I will copy and meet with those willing first Sat in Feb. Are there any specific questions I should raise?
I will print this and every thread related to it. I will highlight every concern contained there in. Even if you see it posted already list the biggest concern you may have that you may not be confident will be repesented adaquitly.
 
Jayb said:
Well, yeah... I was angry. My background and attitudes did not lend themselves to a response the other day.

I see your point, and you have a valid one. I think I also have a valid point in being concerned about those who would buy a handgun, carry it, and barely know how to load it, much less be termed "safe" with it......... not to mention proficient. I'm not going to divert this thread with this discussion, but I wouldn't mind having it another time/place.

Thanks for whatever your involvement was in the reciprocal agreement with TX. I heard about it very quickly, as I still have family there.

Jay

Jay, no guarantees in life. Freedom is not free.

I urge caution in any attempt to 'improve' what I consider to be one of the finest 'License to Carry Handgun' laws in the US. I really think you might open a large bucket of rotten worms.

As an aside, I have had the above permit since 1970.

As a longtime Life Member of the ISRPA, I would suggest you look at the legislative record of that organization. I would also urge you to join if you are already not a member.

As for as our friend in Lafayette, thanks again. You are a Patriot.

George
 
George, I'm not quite sure what delusion led you to think I haven't been aware of that for many years. You're out of line.
 
i would not say that training is fraud. for those of us who did not have a good father figure to teach us right and wrong, do and dont's and all the basics i would say it's absolutly necessary. when i was in the marines i seen people that had never even touched a weapon before and they were scary flaging people with m-16's on the line loaded till someone jerked a knot in their butt and let them know the rules the hard way. you have all seen them at the range, no common curtiosy(spelling) not asking if the range is clear to set up targets, or shooting on your way back from setting up targets or whatever. as far as suicide goes if they want to go bad enough they will use a , knife, rope, pills or whatever not just guns. guns are just the most convienent and most painless way to go in my opinion. and children should be up to parents if they have firearms. yes they will play with them if they are accessable, i did and they will too it's your job to let them know how they work and atleast how to tell if its loaded and on safe. if they can't understand yet they should be locked up, well the firearms anyway!
 
Jayb said:
I think you can carry open in IN. I also think it's not a good idea. Open carry can invite caustic comments, or a 911 call for "a man carrying a gun"....
Open carry in Indiana is legal ONLY if you have a Permit to carry a handgun.
 
Big Gay Al said:
Open carry in Indiana is legal ONLY if you have a Permit to carry a handgun.

Has anyone ever actually done this?? I live in a pretty rural area, but I can imagine you may get a few calls!

I make no attempt at concealing on my property, but the nearest neighbor is a 1/3 of a mile up. ;)

Count me in for any help needed in the Indy area also...
 
IndyChris said:
Has anyone ever actually done this?? I live in a pretty rural area, but I can imagine you may get a few calls!

I make no attempt at concealing on my property, but the nearest neighbor is a 1/3 of a mile up. ;)

Count me in for any help needed in the Indy area also...
Check out http://www.paulhager.org/ for info on this. Mr. Hager carried openly in Bloomington Indiana for quite a while as part of a social/political experiment he conducted. He documented the whole thing on his site. It's quite interesting, the reactions he got.
 
I'm told, at least in Indianapolis, that while OC may be legal, the police will find a reason to detain you if they see it. Many policemen also may not know it's legal. But other than in a gun shop or range, I have yet to see anyone carrying openly.
 
I wonder if anyone carries openly in Indianapolis? I hate to admit it, but the city is considerably to the Left of the surrounding state. I'm considering it....

--Herself
 
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