Outrage in Richmond VA

[spartacus2002]

Just received a 10 page response to my request to VSP. I will photograph relevant portions tonight and post.

Basically, this was a targeted operation, wherein the ATF personnel at the show would review the SP-65 and 4473 forms, determine if the purchaser was in a certain area (i.e., high crime area), and then send an appropriate local or state LEO to perform a "residence check." There were also "take down" teams to arrest or effect vehicle stops at the direction of ATF. The memo I received also confirmed that the ATF was visited by the gun show promoter's lawyer, and that the ATF SAC has suspended this program.

Also, this was apparently the first time that the Henrico Police were involved in this operation. Previously, ATF and Richmond were the agencies involved. This may explain why the Henrico folks got house calls, and perhaps the Henrico officers were not properly briefed on how to do this tactfully.

saw this posted on another board; link here down toward the bottom of page 4. I'd suggest looking there to see if he posts the response to his FOIA request there.

 

[BB62]

Double Maduro,

I've been trying to confirm this through other sources online.

No mention at all at CNN, FOX, ABC, The Richmond Times Dispatch, BATFE site or any other of numerous places I checked.

The only source is the VCDL alert. It is the only source and shows up on several blogs and forums.

I would like to see some confirmation before we get all worked up over this.

It doesn't sound like it is true. The nics process is supposed to be confidential. So this would be an illegal conspiracy between the FBI, BATFE, the State of Virginia, the county and local police? Come on, we all know from tv that the feds don't like to work with the locals,lol. The only organizations not involved would appear to be the Department of Homeland Security and the Girl Scouts.

DM

I want to see another source before I get all worked up.

Above from post #14, this thread

First, you asked for ONE extra source, now in your latest posts (#214), even with multiple sources, names, etc. you are *still* not satisfied.

Talk about bait and switch! You masterfully raise the bar (and in the process give great creedence to "the state") yet act so self-righteously about your "doubt". What's your angle?

I'll tell you what - a guy visited me and gave me two stone tablets containing guidelines for clean living. I think they're right from the horse's mouth, but I don't have confirmation. Whadya think?


BB62

 

[Double Maduro]

BB62,

I have been consistant from the beginning. And since I have not asked for any kind of varification in about 24 hours now, why are you attacking me.



DM

 

[BB62]

Double Maduro

I have been consistant from the beginning....

But of course you have! (compare post #14 to #214)

...And since I have not asked for any kind of varification in about 24 hours now...

So?


BB62

 

[Henry Bowman]

Could you two just knock it off! :banghead:

 

[Double Maduro]

spartacus2002,

Thanks,

I look forward to seeing the response. Let us know when it gets posted, please.

DM

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Even though I think it is safe to assume at this time that it actually happened I followed Mr. Double Maduro's example and went googling for the Richmond Times Dispatch for some kind of evidence of the occurance of this event/operation/sting/task force.

Articles? no
Letters to the editor? no
Editorials? no
Finally, in desperation, I went to the police beat, or whatever they called it.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servle...ionFront&c=Page&cid=1031782497910&startRow=71

I scrolled through all the dates beginning aug 14 to present. If there was ONE arrest for some violation that this task force or whatever was persuing, The Police did not think it was worth posting.

I am only wondering here........400 cops for 2 days (that would be 800 man days), not one arrest? I agree that .gov is incompetant, but I'da thunk that there would be limits.

Mr. Double Maduro has to be right. It could never have happened. No city would be stupid enough nor it's citizens complacent enough to allow that kind of waste to go on.

 

[Smurfslayer]

Just out of curiosity...

Since there is a claim of lost $$$ involved, has anybody researched the profitability of the last few Richmond shows?

I attended a gun show at the PG Co. MD Equestrian Center in Upper Marlboro and counted over 120 LE vehicles. I would bet there were about 3 citizens to every LE at that show. This was a few years back.

If it's such an issue, why doesn't the show promoter post at the entrance:

YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO EVEN SPEAK TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER !

???

 

[Double Maduro]

Love the way people tell me what I said.

Don't believe I ever once said it couldn't have happened. At most I am guilty of urging caution.

Henry, thanks for trying to calm this down, I truly don't know what I did to these two, unless it was to make them think, but I doubt that is it.

I will no longer answer personal attacks in this thread. Post what you will.


DM

 

[JohnBT]

Beats me.

The Times-Dispatch doesn't do much real reporting of hard news - they just reprint a lot of stuff that was in the Washington Post the day before.

"YOU can buy the beers over this one!"

All I did was point out the reason for the usual discrepancies in the usage of Army Air Corps/Army Air Forces. I'm not buying any beer today because I'm going to the Skins game this evening and it costs too much.

John

 

[Double Maduro]

JohnBT,

Have a good time at the Skins Game.


DM

 

[cropcirclewalker]

From Mr. Double Maduro's Post #14

I would like to see some confirmation before we get all worked up over this.

It doesn't sound like it is true. The nics process is supposed to be confidential. So this would be an illegal conspiracy between the FBI, BATFE, the State of Virginia, the county and local police? Come on, we all know from tv that the feds don't like to work with the locals,lol.

edited..I need to stew a little before I respond to some of these posts. I gotta call a foul on Mr. Double Maduro.

Henry never told me to knock it off.
I never put any words in Mr. Double Maduro's mouth.
I only agreed with him that it looked like a questionable story.
Those were my words that it couldn't have happened.

I yam probably wasting my time here because he said he would no longer reply to personal attacks (which I guess this is) even though the posting he was referring to was not.

Sometimes you are darned if you do and darned if you don't.

 

[DMF]

Wow, I can't believe I just heard that.

I've been here two less months than you, and have 6 times your posts. What does that make me?

Geez jefvnk, you've got more than twice as many posts as I do! You must be getting paid some serious OT by whomever wants you to post on THR!

cropcirclewalker, thank you for posting one the funniest things I've read on this forum. Your paranoia never ceases to amuse me.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Yo, Mr. DMF, I see you're back on the job

Thanks, I do my best. I guess you work the night shift.

Henry the K once said that anybody who was in DC and not paranoid was crazy. Quite a wit, that guy.

Hey, I was lurking over at GlockTalk....I would never own a piece I couldn't handload for, so I have no interest, but I noticed that you are hard at it over there too.

Do you really get Overtime to surf the net? Way cool.

 

[Titus]

Do what I did and head on over to www.vcdl.org and click on that Donate to VCDL link!

 

[dbrowne1]

Just to put any BS to rest -

I am the one who got the FOIA documents. They are real, they are not photoshopped (other than removing my name/address). Go read the thread in the "Cop Talk" forum at glocktalk for more details, and my analysis of what may have happened this time that was different than the other "residency checks" that Richmond PD (not Henrico) has done.

 

[KLR]

I would like to point out that anyone is free to follow DBrowne1's course of action and request the same documents. Simply file a request in the manner he did.

 

[jefnvk]

Geez jefvnk, you've got more than twice as many posts as I do! You must be getting paid some serious OT by whomever wants you to post on THR!

I wish I got paid to be here

I'd be a millionaire by now.

 

[JohnBT]

Somebody check my reasoning in this post I just made on Glocktalk. I think I'll post it on TFL for opinions as well. John

Here's the link to the Code of Virginia pertaining to the purchase requirements. The link is one of many listed on the Virginia State Police site. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/leg...od+18.2-308.2:2

Here's what bothers me about the local police driving around while the purchaser waits...the law does not authorize it...

"Upon receipt of the request for a criminal history record information check, the State Police shall (1) review its criminal history record information to determine if the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law, (2) inform the dealer if its record indicates that the buyer or transferee is so prohibited, and (3) provide the dealer with a unique reference number for that inquiry.

2. The State Police shall provide its response to the requesting dealer during the dealer's request, or by return call without delay."


It says "...(1) review its criminal history record information..."

It says "...shall provide its response...without delay."

This is the Code of Virginia. The State Police should not be delaying the response to the dealer while Henrico or Richmond officers are driving to the purchaser's home.

John

 

[pax]

This one was done about 10 pages ago.

When new information comes out, please feel free to start another thread. Until then, chill.

pax