P3AT: Test before you Tote

[Clemson]

I bought a Keltec P3AT this week for those occasions when my S&W 342 is too large to carry. I took the slide off last night and lubed the rails lightly with Miltec oil. Today I took it to the range for a wring-out. In a box of MagTech FMJ I had two failures to extract. I then started on a box of UMC hardball. The more I shot, the worse the gun got. It got to the point of failing to extract about a third of the rounds. Some were the first round with a full, 6-round magazine in the gun. Some were an intermediate round (or two or three). Several were the last round in the pistol. In each case, I was able to clear the jam (difficult without a slide lock!), drop the magazine, and then close the slide on the offending case. When I racked the slide back, the case was extracted every time.

I took Silvertip, Corbon, and HydraShock ammo with me to the range, but I didn't bother to load or fire any of it. This gun will be heading back to the Manufacturer.

Accuracy was adequate, though not nearly as good as the S&W snubby. Recoil is not a problem. I once sold a PPK because it was unpleasant to shoot and had sharp edges everywhere. This Keltec is a more enjoyable gun to shoot than the Walther was.

For light weight, the P3AT is king. For reliability, however, it seems to be the pits. I'm sticking with the 342 for now.

Clemson

 

[Greybeard]

Sorry to hear of your poor experience with the new mouse gun. I've had somewhat of an itch for one since they came out.

A lady friend got one a few weeks back. It was 100% reliable thru the first box. Then some of the female members had a "show and tell" night at the range and shot each other's guns a bit. That evening, out of the next box of 50, the Kel-Tec had 3 malfs that I can recall. Not real sure if the problems were with the operators or the gun. (It ran fine for me.)

Anyhoo, like ya say, they are not to be relied upon until thoroughly tested.
' Hope Kel-Tec gets ya back in service. Altho the 342 is a sweet little piece to carry in the meantime, huh?

 

[mtnbkr]

I had problems with Magtech in my P32. I also noticed problems with any ammo that had a narrow extractor groove (Aguila's is very narrow and barely functions in my P32).

Chris

 

[gbundersea]

Before sending it back...

You might try giving it the Goldenloki Fluff & Buff. Cost is next to nothing, and it only takes an hour or two. Plus, it's a great way to familiarize yourself with the pistol. I did it to mine, and it was 100% reliable, until I intentionally let it get very dirty in order to experiment with various ammo and see what it took to cause a failure. It took a lot of dirt, and my carry load still performed flawlessly! Cheaper stuff had a few FTE's, as you can see in my detailed range report.

Good luck with the pistol!

 

[pax]

My buddy's P32 has a low tolerance for being run dirty.

It shoots reliably and consistently until ~75 rounds have gone through it.

Then it chokes until it has been thoroughly cleaned.

Maybe that's what's going on with your P-3AT?

(FWIW, the P-3AT I test drove was reliable well past 200 rounds, but it did start to choke once it got dirty enough. Maybe your gun came to you dirty?)

pax

 

[Clemson]

The gun was clean when I got it. I took it apart to check for lube (it did have some), wiped it down and relubed the rails with Miltec. This one is headed back to Kel-tec. If it won't run when I get it back, I will dump it.

The funny thing is that I know two separate gun dealers who took the first P3AT that came into their stores, loaded it, and stuc k it in their pocket. They have never fired a shot through the little beasties. The first two magazines ran OK through my gun. One was UMC and the other was Magtech. After that, it went south in a hurry.

And yes, I am really happy that I still have the 342!

Clemson

 

[treeprof]

I'd never carry something that I'd not thoroughly tested, either.

My exp w/2 P32's has been 50% crap, 50% fine out of the box. My P32 had 2 trips to fact and I've torn it down twice to fix parts, plus did the F&B at time of purchase. The wife's has been fine from day 1. The P3AT intrigues me, but I do not like buying goods that are only 95% manufactured at point of purchase.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Carrying a gun you're not both thoroughly familiar with and completely sure of isn't the wisest possible move.

 

[Turk]

I had a similar experince with my P-3AT 1st box of PMC through it and it didn't miss a beat. Next box Win. I started to encounter a extraction problem with at least 2 failures per 6 round mag.

The extractor was pulling over the rim and leaving a good burr on the rim of the case. I cleaned oiled etc. but still had the same problem. Sent it back to the factory and now it doesn't miss a beat with any ammo I shoot.

It accuracy is sufficient for it's intended purpose and is it a charm to carry so it stays my pocket gun. Last week I purchased P-11 as I was wanting a little more power and the lightest wt. pistol for what I call a high threat situation. Well this little 9 para shoots everytime (400 rounds Blazer through it).

The Kel-tec handguns don't compare in quailty to mys Brownings, Colts or Smiths but they sure fit the bill for a small light weight CCW gun that shots when the trigger is pulled.

Have a good day and remeber to pray for our troops.

Vietnam Vet. against Kerry

Turk

 

[Fred Fuller]

Clemson,

When you sent the P3AT back, send along a money order for $20 and have them hard-chrome it. That might well help with functioning.

I bought one for my wife as a birthday present last month, it has about 75 rounds of Winchester WinClean through it with absolutely no bobbles at all. While we were waiting for her purchase permit to come through I had the dealer send the slide, barrel etc. back for hardchroming and it was done by the time the paperwork for the permit was finished. Before the first time out I cleaned it and lubed it with Militech, and ran the slide by hand a few dozen times also.

It seems some K-Ts have teething problems out of the box, but a package that small and powerful, even running at the edge of the performance envelope, is worth being patient with until reliability is achieved. Limp wristing seems to be a major problem with them, they need a strong grip to recoil against- and recoil they do.

They are selling like hotcakes around here, my dealer got in five of them Monday afternoon this week and had one left Wednesday afternoon. Officers on the local PD are snapping them up for BUGs.

lpl/nc

 

[tommytrauma]

The funny thing is that I know two separate gun dealers who took the first P3AT that came into their stores, loaded it, and stuck it in their pocket. They have never fired a shot through the little beasties.

Anyone who would do this with a defensive weapon of ANY brand.. well, let's just say it's a poor decision.

I did the fluff and buff on mine before i took it out the first time. Never had a problem with it.

 

[Frenchy]

Haven't done the F&B on my 32 yet, but no malfs with S&B so far.

 

[WonderNine]

en you sent the P3AT back, send along a money order for $20 and have them hard-chrome it.

I doubt they hard chrome the slide they just swap for a hard chromed slide.

 

[alamo]

That's correct. It is a swap for new chrome parts. Here are all the details:

http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/hardchromeexchange.htm

 

[mini14jac]

Clemson,
My gun didn't start having failures to extract until after I had it chromed.

Previously, I had no failures but I wanted it hard chromed, and upgraded.
After I had it hard chromed, it started having failures to eject, when shooting UMC or Winchester White Box.
Those two brands did seem to be slightly oversized compared to the rounds that worked.
The gun would feed S&B and several types of hollow points just fine.
(I am guessing that the Silvertips and the Hydrashoks would have worked fine, if your gun does have tight chamber. One way to tell is to drop one of each round in the chamber, with the barrel removed, and see if some brands have more friction than others.)

Before my gun was upgraded, it ate UMC ammo like candy.
I had found UMC ammo on sale and had purchased about 1000 rounds before I sent it back, so I expected it to work with UMC after it was upgraded.

I really didn't want to send it back again, so I tried polishing the chamber with sandpaper on a pencil.
After the first time it was more reliable, but still not 100%.

After another polishing session, it shoots UMC and all other ammo with no failures.
I think the chambers may be a little tight in some of the barrels, and after they add a layer of chrome, it makes them a little too tight.

The fluff-and-buff that others have recommended may save you a trip back to Fla, if you don't mind doing the work yourself.

I do know people who buy guns and never shoot them.
There have been stories of people being killed because the gun didn't work when they needed it.

Myself, I want to know that the equipment, and the operator, will work when needed.

 

[Arub]

I join several others in saying that the P3AT interests me and I find a .380 in such a small, compact package desirable. However, the reliability of the little pistols leaves something to be desired in a carry weapon. I'll continue to wait until the NIB reliability improves.

I did have a P32 that malf'ed after a box or two of ammo went through it. The slide locked back, on occaision. I found a burr on the rail, filed it down and the gun operated fine from that point on out. Maybe my standards are too high, but I expect a gun to function, as advertised, out of the box and there on out.

Lots of luck, folks.

 

[dubb-1]

FWIW

I will no longer sell Kel Tec pistols because of the catastrophic failures that some of my customers have experienced recently. Let's face it, a lightweight, compact broken Kel Tec isn't a good firearm, and sure isn't a good club.

Be well!

 

[P. Plainsman]

I will no longer sell Kel Tec pistols because of the catastrophic failures that some of my customers have experienced recently.

That's interesting.

I took a P3AT for a brief spin recently. It is an amazingly compact gun. Forget pants pocket carry -- those who wear dress shirts could fit this thing in a front breast pocket! For this reason alone, I am not surprised that they are selling like hot cakes.

Recoil from the .380 was a bit snotty, but manageable. I did not find the gun to be accurate, even at 4 to 5 yards. The gun is so small that it is hard to get a good grip and orient one's trigger finger for accurate fire. However, I only fired a small number of rounds through it. I am sure one would improve with practice.

I had no feeding problems, but did not shoot enough ammo to justify a conclusion either way.

An interesting little pistol. However, I would (and will, when I get a CCW) definitely choose a S&W J-frame revolver over the Kel-Tec for pocket carry. Five rounds of .38 spl +P, from a design with far better shootability, and zero feeding worries, just seem to me to beat what the Kel-Tec can offer. The Kel-Tec is cheaper, but the option of buying a used S&W diminishes that advantage.

I am an average-sized man who wears cotton slacks. In "carry experiments" I have done with a relative's gun, puttering around at home, I find I scarcely notice the J-frame. The little revolver's curves make it look like nondescript pocket clutter, to the negligible extent that it even "prints" at all. And that is without a pocket holster. Plus, the weight -- 15 oz for an aluminum/steel 642 or 637, considerably less for the Ti/Sc models -- is no problem.

Just my perspective.

 

[Turk]

dubb-1
Your post.
I will no longer sell Kel Tec pistols because of the catastrophic failures.

What were the catastrophic failures and how many failures out of how many guns sold?

My decision to purchase the Kel-tec's were directly related to their weight and not cost becasue I had heard they were realible. I've heard of and had some jamming as my 380 but the factory did the fix.

Has anyone else had or heard (not a buddy story) of catastrophic failures like dubb-1 has seen?

Thanks,

Turk
Vietnam Vet. against Kerry

Please remember to pray for our troops.

 

[Frenchy]

Has anyone else had or heard (not a buddy story) of catastrophic failures like dubb-1 has seen?

I'm hardly and expert, but I know many of the law officers in my part of the country that carry the Kel-Tec as there backup (including me). Everyone that I've talked with has been generally happy with the gun.
The factory has taken care of any problems that do crop up.

 

[MR.G]

I have had one failure to feed in about three hundred rounds with mine.
I would not shoot one without first doing a "fluff and buff". I have owned six Kel-Tec pistols, and none of them would feed the first round easily until they were polished. My P-11 has also been very reliable. No failures in five hundred plus rounds, with the factory magazines. It has had some problems with the 15 round S&W magazines.

 

[kokapelli]

There is no other gun in the world that has the shootablity, conealability, power and ease of carry in a package as small and light as the P-3AT.

I have two of them and did have early problems with both.

I sent one back to KT and fixed the other myself.

Both are 100% reliable now with over 1000 rounds through one and almost 500 rounds through the other.

It's a shame that some will pass up this super light 7-1/2 oz and super thin 3/4" thick pistol just because they might have to spend an hour or so doing a little sanding and buffing!

As for accuracy, after getting used to the sights on the P-3AT, at seven yards I am able to shoot more accurately with it then any snubby I have owned and without using the sights, the P-3AT points well too.

 

[Amish_Bill]

My p32 just broke at the 200 round mark. Everything looks good, but the trigger is no longer connected to the hammer... somehow... :-(

I don't know if I'll dig in and call them for parts or send it back and ask for it to be rebuilt with a green frame and a parked slide w/ tritium insert.

 

[dubb-1]

Turk, recent issues:

broken extractor
broken trigger (2)
magazine fell out after every shot

Last year a local PD banned them from being carried in any capacity after numerous failures during attempts to qualify with the P32 and P11.


Be well!

 

[TarpleyG]

Replace the extractor on this gun with a newer design you can get from Kel_Tec. Comes out by removing a 1/8" roll pin. Should fix the problem you are having.

Greg