Panama City School Board Hostage Situatuation and Shooting w/ Video

[Mr.Davis]

I wonder why the Security guard didn't draw on the perp while he was distracted by the purse-lady.

Apparently the guard was outside the door, and burst in when he heard the first shot. I read that in another article today.

 

[daorhgih]

At the very least, she acted! Would you have?

MrDavis: do you have any military or LEO experience? You say: ""Why? She endangered herself and didn't do anything to rectify the situation."" She slightly defused the situation, and the cretin acted rather politely with her. But why didn't the men make a break for it?? Because they were "noble"? Puhleeeze! Taking a stand in the gap like she tried to do takes balls, man, well .. er ... uh ... it takes the STUFF she has. And the "negotiating" board pres. also has a set. IMHO.

 

[scaatylobo]

Blanks ?

If he were shooting blanks then how did he get the semi auto to function AND then shoot himself.

If any were breaking the law and CCW on school grounds - I guess the thought of getting arrested and or losing your CCW for taking real action ,would cross your mind.

I am sure most would do the correct thing,but the price would be high .

 

[RandomPerson]

They say don't bring a knife to a gun fight, but I'm bringing a purse so it must be alright.

 

[wrs840]

If the lady would have had a small snub nose 357 that would have ended faster with the fat loon getting offed early...

That's pretty much the first thing my wife said.

The guy's facebook postings prove he's a Trotskyite lunatic. Wonder if he had his CWP with him...

Les

 

[Mr.Davis]

MrDavis: do you have any military or LEO experience? You say: ""Why? She endangered herself and didn't do anything to rectify the situation."" She slightly defused the situation, and the cretin acted rather politely with her. But why didn't the men make a break for it?? Because they were "noble"? Puhleeeze! Taking a stand in the gap like she tried to do takes balls, man, well .. er ... uh ... it takes the STUFF she has. And the "negotiating" board pres. also has a set. IMHO.

How exactly did she "slightly defuse" the situation?

She risked her life by re-entering the room. She crossed the fine line between bravery and stupidity. She attacked an armed man three times her size, then tried to wrestle him to the ground. In fact risked an inadvertent discharge of his gun by smacking him in the hand and then wrestling around with him. She also risked panicking him further. For all we know, her attack contributed to his decision to fire on the other board members.

She "stood in the gap". I'll give you that, but she couldn't have realistically hoped to accomplish anything. Why do you think what she did was admirable?

And no, I don't have military or law enforcement experience.

 

[Messenger Guard]

I heard the purse woman's comments today on the news. She said although she was allowed to leave, she couldn't in good conscience walk away to leave her companions to die. She said she wouldn't have been able to live with herself if she did nothing. Although her attack was ineffective (the board members should have used the opportunity to assist), the act in itself was of the HIGHEST OF COURAGE one could ever expect. I used to have a female partner. When others asked me how I liked working with her I told them, "She will fight for me and she will die for me. What more can I ask of her?". The purse woman can be my partner....with some firearms training of course. She has the combat mindset Jeff Cooper would admire.

 

[JoeSlomo]

Some of the things that come to mind...

1. Far more often than not, strange behavior, like, say.....spray painting a movie logo in a school board meeting, is an indication that the perpetrator of said behavior is likely willing and capable of performing dangerous behaviors directed at you. Observe, assess, and prepare to fight or relocate immediately.

2. Doing SOMETHING, be it fighting, or running, can get you shot or killed. Doing NOTHING, can get you shot or killed. Doing something places your chances of success or failure in YOUR hands, while doing NOTHING puts your fate in the hands of the criminal. Trust yourself, do something.

3. Being in good shape is an advantage. Being able to run, jump, and do cheetah flips, can increase your chances of survival when evading, or moving to a position of advantage. Being within a reasonable body fat index not only makes you a smaller target, but it makes movement easier, and less susceptible to injury as a result of "gravitational" challenges and impacts.

4. You will rarely find a group of citizens less likely to display any semblance of fighting courage than in a "gun free" zone.

 

[Navy87Guy]

Some of the things that come to mind...

1. Far more often than not, strange behavior, like, say.....spray painting a movie logo in a school board meeting, is an indication that the perpetrator of said behavior is likely willing and capable of performing dangerous behaviors directed at you. Observe, assess, and prepare to fight or relocate immediately.

2. Doing SOMETHING, be it fighting, or running, can get you shot or killed. Doing NOTHING, can get you shot or killed. Doing something places your chances of success or failure in YOUR hands, while doing NOTHING puts your fate in the hands of the criminal. Trust yourself, do something.

3. Being in good shape is an advantage. Being able to run, jump, and do cheetah flips, can increase your chances of survival when evading, or moving to a position of advantage. Being within a reasonable body fat index not only makes you a smaller target, but it makes movement easier, and less susceptible to injury as a result of "gravitational" challenges and impacts.

4. You will rarely find a group of citizens less likely to display any semblance of fighting courage than in a "gun free" zone.

Some good points -- but #2 is a double-edged sword. Just like the woman who attacked with her purse put the entire board at risk by her action, you'd better be sure that your actions have a very good chance of success. A futile act, just for the sake of action, can provoke the aggressor and result in a change in his plans.

The Board members were at a horrible disadvantage - "trapped" behind the desks on the podium. I think I would have had a plan for what I would do if he started shooting, then waited for an opening. Ginger - the purse lady - certainly created an opportunity that could have ended the situation if anyone else had joined her. He turned his back when she attached...at least two of those Board members could have reached him in that interval. He was big -- but not insurmountable.

The incident also highlights why you should add disarming techniques to your repetoire...you never know when you'll find yourself unarmed and faced with a serious threat. If Ginger had known how to roll the gun out of his hand, her surprise "attack" could have been very effective.

I give the Superintendent a lot of credit. He was calm, he tried to spare his colleagues and (with a couple of exceptions) he did a good job of trying to talk the guy down. I don't quite know why he would just sit there and let himself be shot -- but he got lucky.

I'm glad the results came out correctly...and hopefully it will be a wake up call for others.

 

[florida bob]

Is there a possibility--

That the whole thing was staged by the shooter because he didn't have the courage to commit suicide?

How can a shooter with a 9mm miss from 4 feet? Why didn't he shoot the lady?

A side note: I live 20 minutes from where this took place. One of my riding buddies knows the lady well. He said he is not surprised at all by her actions. He says she is a real B###h.

A lot of crazy stuff happens in Florida!!

 

[Mr.Davis]

Unlikely, since he killed himself after the security guard shot him.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

gotta love all the forum commandos that "know what they would've done" lol

 

[heeler]

Frankly after watching this thing several times I came to the conclusion the guy came there to die with drama and said vocally he was going to.
Secondly I dont really think he wanted to shoot anybody,even though he did discharge his weapon.
And lastly I would think once someone went that far over the hill the moment the woman attacked him he would have shot her dead at point blank range for trying to take control of HIS drama.
This guy was a very disturbed,mentally unhealthy individual.

 

[Corporal K]

How can a shooter with a 9mm miss from 4 feet?

Things like that happen all the time.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I wonder why the Security guard didn't draw on the perp while he was distracted by the purse-lady.

Apparently the guard was outside the door, and burst in when he heard the first shot. I read that in another article today.

When the incident started, the guard was not in the room at all. He was found by the exiting people. In all, I counted 4 times that he communicated with people in the room. The head of the board orders him away or out three times (1, 2, and 4) and the third interaction was when he queried the shooter about his gun being real.

The guard's training/procedure was to monitor the situation until backup arrived unless things went sound. When they did, he responded. The cops arrived a few minutes after the shooting.

As to why the guard just didn't shoot the guy, from at least one of the doors where he communicated (to the right in the video), the school board was BEHIND the shooter and hence he did not have a clear shot...which is wise especially given how well he did end up shooting (missing and striking the gunman in the leg).

He had moved to a side door for a better vantage point when the shooting started and as such, he had no board members behind the gunman to worry about.

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

Ah. I see.

 

[Mr.Davis]

When the incident started, the guard was not in the room at all. He was found by the exiting people. In all, I counted 4 times that he communicated with people in the room. The head of the board orders him away or out three times (1, 2, and 4) and the third interaction was when he queried the shooter about his gun being real.

The guard's training/procedure was to monitor the situation until backup arrived unless things went sound. When they did, he responded. The cops arrived a few minutes after the shooting.

As to why the guard just didn't shoot the guy, from at least one of the doors where he communicated (to the right in the video), the school board was BEHIND the shooter and hence he did not have a clear shot...which is wise especially given how well he did end up shooting (missing and striking the gunman in the leg).

He had moved to a side door for a better vantage point when the shooting started and as such, he had no board members behind the gunman to worry about.

Good analysis, thanks.

 

[uspJ]

I can't find the video but I saw where the guard said he went to his car to get his other handgun (.40), spare mags and vest. He said he had a .38 on his hip when the incident started.

 

[GCBurner]

How can a shooter with a 9mm miss from 4 feet?

Things like that happen all the time.

I can confirm that from experience. The one time I was startled into drawing my revolver and firing defensively was when I walked up on a coiled rattlesnake at a range of about six feet. I must have pulled the trigger just after I cleared the holster, because the bullet hit the ground about an inch in front of my right boot. The snake took off into the bushes and got away with his life, and I still have all my toes, but it was a close thing.

 

[joe_security]

I saw an interview where the guard stated that he was supposed to be off that day and that no one would be standing in for him. He was asked to come in the day of the incident. He also demonstrated how he had used seat backs as cover while engaging the BG.

 

[ActionJax]

Yeah .. seat backs might fall into the realm of concealment more than cover, but I'd take whatever was available.

I also noticed that after the first shot, the intended victim jumped, grabbed his chest, and sunk down behind the desk. Probably was done out of reaction more than forethought, but ..... it would be a pretty good idea when unarmed. Get the bad guy to head elsewhere.

Lastly, after the first shot, it seems the assailant fired toward the ground in an accidental discharge. Finger not in register, perhaps? The term "negligent" (as in discharge) hardly applies to a criminal attempting murder...

All in all a great learning lesson ..... glad I saw it. Looking forward to CCW in Wisconsin.

 

[therewolf]

Yanno, if the "stupid lady's" purse strap had gotten accidentally tangled on the gun, and she'd inadvertently stripped the disgruntled man of his weapon, she'd look like a hero.

Granted, given the circumstances, what she did was most probably a bad idea.

Yeah, this looks like an attempt at police assisted suicide to me, also.

 

[Beaux Nehr]

Yanno, if the "stupid lady's" purse strap had gotten accidentally tangled on the gun, and she'd inadvertently stripped the disgruntled man of his weapon, she'd look like a hero.

Even if this miracle had taken place, the shooter would likely have just bent over and picked it up again.

I really can't imagine the board members diving for it.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

You guys can honestly say that if you had been there with your pistol, you would have slipped out of the room and not returned?

If you were armed and he let you leave, you wouldn't have sneaked around to the same doorway as the purse lady and let him have it?

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe, just maybe, God put you in the perfect position to save innocent people for a reason? A lot of us here would have had the ability, the skills, the training, the mindset, and the tools to ventilate that loon before he was able to hurt anyone... yet, I'm hearing a lot about the best tactic being to leave and not come back...

Those board members up front were husbands, sons, brothers, and fathers to someone... you have the ability, the opportunity, and the tools to end it... and you just leave?

I don't know you guys, and maybe my circumstances are different because I don't have a wife, kids, and a house in the suburbs, but if I had my pistol and the opportunity to end it and I left those people to the mercy of that man... I couldn't live with myself.

We all know that this could have easily turned into the classic mass murder. If there's one thing that would eat me alive afterward, it would be leaving those people to die...

Now I can't speak for everyone. And I also don't know for sure what I would do because I've never been in that position. With those disclaimers said: I would rather die than live knowing I could have stopped him before he hurt anyone. There are some things worse than death, and living with my conscience after a situation like that is one of them. Of course, I'm typing this while there isn't a crazy fat man with a gun in the room, but you get my point.

Ask yourself this. Put yourself in the position of "purse lady". Only you have your pistol. What do you think God would want you to do? Just for clarification, now what do you think Satan would want you to do?

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Forgot to add... Lady with the purse wasn't exactly successful nor smart about it. But at least she tried. She had the opportunity to leave, her conscience called her back, and she listened to it. Hopefully she'll get a carry permit, a pistol, and join the "concealed carry on campus" movement. Maybe she'll help open some eyes about how pointless "gun free zones" are.

Get her a pistol and some training time and I'd be glad to let her watch my back any day.

On thing we can all agree on: No one can call her a coward. She faced her own mortality directly and said "f it, we all gotta die". Even if she did it in a dumb way.