Panera Bread; a weak response to anti gun groups.....

[RustyShackelford]

I read a media item today saying the local Panera Bread restaurants/bakery chain will no longer allow firearms in the location(s).
The managers also said no formal signs will be added & employees-staff will not confront any gun owners/CCW license holders.
Sooo what does the "no guns" SOP mean?

This stupid pandering to the anti-gunners & anti 2A crowd just shows how US business owners/corporations want to appeal to everyone.
The truth is that can't always work.

FWIW, like Chipote, I don't hang out in Panera Bread. I used to buy coffee there on Sundays(free refills) but I don't bother now. I still go by Starbucks on occasion but if I'm packing then so be it.

Rusty
PS; in my area, "open carry" of handguns isn't street legal so it's not like folks stroll around with rifles or have 6 shooters on their hips as they buy baked goods or over priced soup.

 

[tyeo098]

Rusty aren't you in VA?

 

[RustyShackelford]

Nope!....

Nope!
I am from the Old Dominion but I no longer reside in the Commonwealth.
Go Cavs!

RS

 

[1911 guy]

You must be up in my neck of the woods now. In Ohio, to prohibit CCW, a business must post signs. The only exceptions are employees of a business that prohibits by company policy or places specifically prohibited in the law as written. Government buildings, post offices, etc.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Nada....

I'm not in Ohio either.
Just to be clear, I deliberately avoid posting a lot of details & specific locations for privacy/security reasons.
I wouldn't want 50/60 "where's rusty" posts.
I'd add that my city/state gun laws say a business or property owner can either post signs or ask patrons/guests/customers not to carry guns but non compliance has no real legal weight.
You could be given a trespass notice or arrested for criminal trespass if you wig out or return to the business/restaurant.
I can't say exactly but Id estimate that about 40-60% of the places in my metro area could care less about open carry/guns.
Most would process a transaction then say "oh" or "okay" or "are you a cop".

RS

 

[jmr40]

Read between the lines. Places like Panera, Target, Starbucks,, and most all of the other places, don't really care if you are armed. As long as they, nor any other customers don't see it. All of this is in response to a few idiots who decided to rub their rights in the faces of gun control advocates by open carrying AR's into public places.

Under the circumstances I can't say that I blame any of those places. I blame the pro gun idiots who hurt all of us. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it smart. The wording on their statements is about as neutral as they can make it. They are requesting that gun owners not bring guns inside. Not demanding that you leave them outside. I'll continue to support any place who makes a "request". I may, or may not honor that request, but no one will ever know either way.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Read between the lines. Places like Panera, Target, Starbucks,, and most all of the other places, don't really care if you are armed. As long as they, nor any other customers don't see it. All of this is in response to a few idiots who decided to rub their rights in the faces of gun control advocates by open carrying AR's into public places.

Under the circumstances I can't say that I blame any of those places. I blame the pro gun idiots who hurt all of us. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it smart. The wording on their statements is about as neutral as they can make it. They are requesting that gun owners not bring guns inside. Not demanding that you leave them outside. I'll continue to support any place who makes a "request". I may, or may not honor that request, but no one will ever know either way.

Very well said jmr40. I agree 100%.

 

[RustyShackelford]

"Look at me" Stanleys.....

I agree too to an extent.
The guns/2A/CCW issue somehow became latched onto by activists & radicals with personal agendas.
These are the people with Go-Pros or DV cameras who must run out in public & get into "dramatic" confrontations. They then go & post these events or create these rants on soc media like Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Instagram, etc so they can appear as the "victim" or be able to lash out at what they feel is a inequality or unfair law, .
Somehow, in 2014, guns & CCW became involved in a few of these radicals lives.
It's annoying & offensive to the real gun owners or license holders who are mature adults and "quiet professionals". People that may choose to conceal carry or open carry a sidearm but aren't marching up & down the sidewalk or dressing like a SWAT commando in public.
2A groups & organizations like the NRA need to distance themselves from these anti social nut-bars who seek out drama & conflict.

As I've stated in the past, citizens should learn & understand the gun/use of force laws where they live-work. If rifles/shotguns are okay to open carry, then so be it. You do not need to rush up & "express your views" to someone in a fast food or donut shop carrying a firearm.
These large chains like Panera Bread, Starbucks, Chipote, etc just want a "safe" stable environment. It's not complicated. Just use common sense & good judgement.

 

[Midwest]

I think MDA (Bloomberg) has more agendas planned than just asking people not to open carry in stores. I don't think they are just going to stop there. In my opinion they will use these 'wins' to further their agenda.

The next stop on their agenda will be to challenge the open carry laws in various states...like Ohio.

Tin foil paranoia?

No....

Read what Michelle Mueller of MDA blurted out recently...

http://www.fox19.com/story/26453731/group-asks-kroger-to-ban-its-customers-from-openly-carrying-guns

"Ohio's laws for open carry does not require a background check, no permits needed, no age limit, and no training requirements," said Mueller. "

And remember that every anti-gunner wants to get their foot in the door as the first step. Then they can use that first step to help them with step two and then step three and four. Unless anyone forgot, there was a "Brady II" planned after the initial Brady Bill was passed. And no doubt after a couple of wins, get ready for step two.
.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

After reading their statement, and that of Chipotle and Target, what I read was:

"In order to make the anti-gunners happy and keep them and their damn signs off our property without involving the police, we will ask the guys carrying the rifles to leave them at home.

In order to make the guys with the guns happy and keep them and their damn "No Money No Guns" cards from cluttering up the door, we will state that we continue to abide by whatever the state law is regarding carrying guns.

There, is everyone mollified? Are they going to carry their signs and rifles someplace else now? OK then. Let's try and move on as quickly as possible so we can get out of the news and get back to selling our doohickeys."

 

[JRH6856]

citizens should learn & understand the gun/use of force laws where they live-work. If rifles/shotguns are okay to open carry, then so be it. You do not need to rush up & "express your views" to someone in a fast food or donut shop carrying a firearm.

Citizens should learn and understand, yes. But most citizens only learn and understand what the are taught and what is consitantly reinforced. And the overwhelming lesson that has been taught by the MSR and entertainment media is that guns are evil and anyone carryon one openly has evil intent. This had been so deeply ingrained that most people don't consciously know they have been taught to believe this; they just react on this belief whenever they encounter a firearm.

Rather than accept the activity, they are suspicious of it and the suspicion seems "natural" even though it is a reaction to a belief learned from continued negative presentation of firearms. And as a result, they don't realize they need to learn anything different.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Post 11, sheeple....

I disagree with #11.
The media & popular culture are not the elected officials nor do they make the laws/statues/ordinances.
It's not my responsibility as a CCW license holder to "teach" anyone nor do I have to comply or agree with what some restaurant patron/business customer "thinks" is the law. I go by the law.

If any citizen chooses not to learn or know the local gun/CCW statues then that's their problem, not mine.

 

[rbernie]

After reading their statement, and that of Chipotle and Target, what I read was:

"In order to make the anti-gunners happy and keep them and their damn signs off our property without involving the police, we will ask the guys carrying the rifles to leave them at home.

In order to make the guys with the guns happy and keep them and their damn "No Money No Guns" cards from cluttering up the door, we will state that we continue to abide by whatever the state law is regarding carrying guns.

There, is everyone mollified? Are they going to carry their signs and rifles someplace else now? OK then. Let's try and move on as quickly as possible so we can get out of the news and get back to selling our doohickeys."

Yup - yet another corporate entity has felt backed into a corner enough that they were willing to agree with the notion that guns are not suitable for inclusion as everyday objects if doing so meant that the larger controversy would go away.

While this may be a net neutral for the CCW/CHL community, I'd say that the OC movement managed to paint themselves further into a corner.

 

[zxcvbob]

Read between the lines. Places like Panera, Target, Starbucks,, and most all of the other places, don't really care if you are armed. As long as they, nor any other customers don't see it. All of this is in response to a few idiots who decided to rub their rights in the faces of gun control advocates by open carrying AR's into public places.

Has that actually happened at Panera?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I read a media item today saying the local Panera Bread restaurants/bakery chain will no longer allow firearms in the location(s).
The managers also said no formal signs will be added & employees-staff will not confront any gun owners/CCW license holders.
Sooo what does the "no guns" SOP mean?

It means exactly what jmr40 said in post #6:

Read between the lines. Places like Panera, Target, Starbucks,, and most all of the other places, don't really care if you are armed. As long as they, nor any other customers don't see it. All of this is in response to a few idiots who decided to rub their rights in the faces of gun control advocates by open carrying AR's into public places.

Under the circumstances I can't say that I blame any of those places. I blame the pro gun idiots who hurt all of us. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it smart. The wording on their statements is about as neutral as they can make it. They are requesting that gun owners not bring guns inside. Not demanding that you leave them outside. I'll continue to support any place who makes a "request". I may, or may not honor that request, but no one will ever know either way.

What does this mean for you and I as potential customers? It means we carry on smartly, carrying our concealed weapons in strict accordance with the laws of our jurisdiction. For me, in SC where "no gun signs" have the force of law, if it ain't posted, it ain't prohibited.

 

[buck460XVR]

It's not my responsibility as a CCW license holder to "teach" anyone nor do I have to comply or agree with what some restaurant patron/business customer "thinks" is the law. I go by the law.

If any citizen chooses not to learn or know the local gun/CCW statues then that's their problem, not mine.

As a responsible gun-owner and thus a participant in the shooting sports, you should strive to be a steward of the sport. This includes educating the ignorant and the promoting of a positive image. If you can avoid future problems by the mere informing someone of what is and what is not legal, in a polite and responsible way, isn't that a good thing?

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Posted at Jacksonville, Florida area stores.

 

[hso]

I read a media item today

Got a link?

 

[RustyShackelford]

Post #16; yes & no.....

I agree with #16 in principal but the problem is that you(or me or any gun owner/CCW holder/armed professional) can't engage every private citizen or customer all the time. In theory, you could have a + exchange with a customer but Id bet 9/10 times you'd have someone get irate or upset then hoop & holler.
Doing security work & dealing with the general public I see that often in disputes. People get steamed or mad, refuse to listen or communicate, feel every statement is a insult or personal attack then can't comprehend or retain what you are saying.
Some people(mature, rational thinking adults) can process what you say, then sometimes return and apologize(yes, I've had customers/hotel guests/employees apologize for their behavior ).

As noted in other topics/forum posts. I've OCed(a M&P compact .45acp in a SERPA holster). I was in a small college town in central PA. Did passers-by or diner customers ask me about my M&P? No. Did the police chase me down main street? No.
You can carry guns concealed or even openly w/o a huge amount of fuss. If I were to be asked about guns, gear or legal issues, I know my state's simple URL & some pat responses.
I'd keep it; "short & sweet".

 

[hso]

Forbes article on the decision by Panera indicates that Panera sought out MDA, but I'm not certain if that makes sense.

 

[JRH6856]

I disagree with #11.
The media & popular culture are not the elected officials nor do they make the laws/statues/ordinances.
It's not my responsibility as a CCW license holder to "teach" anyone nor do I have to comply or agree with what some restaurant patron/business customer "thinks" is the law. I go by the law.

If any citizen chooses not to learn or know the local gun/CCW statues then that's their problem, not mine.

I don't know why you disagree with my post #11, I agree with the above. As a citizen, licensed to carry, I am by what the law says, not by what uninformed people think the law says or should say. My point is, that does not stop the ignorant person from acting upon their ignorance. And if enough ignorant people complain loudly enough about my lawful actions, then what I may lawfully do can change.

If enough people complain about open carry, a store in Texas might respond by posting every signe they can to prohibit carry of any kind. And then, what was once a lawful activity, no longer is at that location.

OTOH, a little education might overcome the ignorance and reduce the complaints to a level that the store can afford to ignore.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Sure....

Sure....
Please re-read my posts. I don't dispute what you say but not every person you ever encounter or inter-act with will be like; "hey gun owner, let's sit & chat about 2A & political issues".
If you wish to be a advocate for gun/2A causes & "win hearts and minds" have at it.
I chose not to for the reasons I posted.

Rusty S

 

[Treedodger]

Here is reply I received from Panera Bread to my email disagreeing with their decision. Basically a blow off.

"I’m very sorry to hear you disagree with our policy. Within our company, we strive to create Panera Warmth, which means, among other things, creating bakery-cafe environments where customers and associates feel comfortable. Panera Bread respects the rights of gun owners, but we do believe asking that customers not bring their firearms inside our bakery-cafes is consistent with the bakery-cafe environment we are attempting to create.

Thank you for taking the time to write to us and share your comments.

Sincerely,
Panera Bread"

 

[zxcvbob]

Forbes article on the decision by Panera indicates that Panera sought out MDA, but I'm not certain if that makes sense.

"I’m very sorry to hear you disagree with our policy. Within our company, we strive to create Panera Warmth, which means, among other things, creating bakery-cafe environments where customers and associates feel comfortable. Panera Bread respects the rights of gun owners, but we do believe asking that customers not bring their firearms inside our bakery-cafes is consistent with the bakery-cafe environment we are attempting to create.''

It makes a lot of sense. IMHO, Panera wasn't forced into a corner, they willingly stepped in this because they wanted the publicity because it's consistent with the bakery-cafe illusion they are attempting to create. They are trying to position themselves as a trendy place like Starbucks, Chipotle, etc for sophisticated "Moms"

 

[herrwalther]

No company wants to ostracize customers if they don't have to, no matter what their political beliefs are. "Asking" not to bring firearms, but not banning their carry is the safest thing a company can do. Just like Starbucks and Target before Panera.

Personally I don't like Panera bread, so pro-gun or not, I don't eat there.