Vern Humphrey
Member
We don't think that. But we don't think yuppies are more valuable than lions.
Parents of cyclist killed by mountain lion sue SoCal wilderness park
- Thread starter gunsmith
- Start date
- Status
We don't think that. But we don't think yuppies are more valuable than lions.
stevelyn
Member
The point is, the CA goobermint and its political sub-divisions are responsible on two points.
One, the PRK and its political sub-divisions created the situation taking away the victim's choice to carry a firearm for personal protection. Whether or not the victims would have chosen to do so is another matter.
Two, the PRK allowed wildlife management to be dictated by those who know nothing of such matters (majority of PRK voters) rather than relying on sound scientific data gathered by its professional wildlife management agencies. The result is an exploding Cougar population that now has to expand into human habitation to ensure its survival.
One, the PRK and its political sub-divisions created the situation taking away the victim's choice to carry a firearm for personal protection. Whether or not the victims would have chosen to do so is another matter.
Two, the PRK allowed wildlife management to be dictated by those who know nothing of such matters (majority of PRK voters) rather than relying on sound scientific data gathered by its professional wildlife management agencies. The result is an exploding Cougar population that now has to expand into human habitation to ensure its survival.
Joejojoba111
Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2005
- Messages
- 1,056
I thought it was a real wilderness park
Windhover makes a point that changes my opinion:"First, the whole "wilderness" issue. Please note, the attack did NOT take place in the wilderness as many of you understood. They just call it that. Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park is in the heart of south Orange County, California,"
Since this isn't a real wildlife park then I totally understand beerslurpy and liquidtension, they make sense to me now.
"The problem is when the legislature uses the concept of wilderness areas to create disarmament zones very close to human habitation."
See, I support the notion that we should set aside areas just for animals, where it's all about them, where humans are in fact second-class, if they're welcome at all! In those areas I think human presence disturbs stuff, and if you let all the humans carry firearms large portions of animal populations could be killed by humans in self defence (And these would be the biggest, aggressive most healthy animals, so the weaker gene'd animals are the ones that live to carry the lineage). Also we know full-well that some people, maybe only .01%, would carry a firearm and shoot stuff, then claim it was self defence. Even .01% doing that could devastate a population. So in real wilderness preserve parks I understand the reason for no firearms, and so help me I support it, the animals simply wouldn't stand a chance otherwise.
Windhover makes a point that changes my opinion:"First, the whole "wilderness" issue. Please note, the attack did NOT take place in the wilderness as many of you understood. They just call it that. Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park is in the heart of south Orange County, California,"
Since this isn't a real wildlife park then I totally understand beerslurpy and liquidtension, they make sense to me now.
"The problem is when the legislature uses the concept of wilderness areas to create disarmament zones very close to human habitation."
See, I support the notion that we should set aside areas just for animals, where it's all about them, where humans are in fact second-class, if they're welcome at all! In those areas I think human presence disturbs stuff, and if you let all the humans carry firearms large portions of animal populations could be killed by humans in self defence (And these would be the biggest, aggressive most healthy animals, so the weaker gene'd animals are the ones that live to carry the lineage). Also we know full-well that some people, maybe only .01%, would carry a firearm and shoot stuff, then claim it was self defence. Even .01% doing that could devastate a population. So in real wilderness preserve parks I understand the reason for no firearms, and so help me I support it, the animals simply wouldn't stand a chance otherwise.
thorn726
Member
wow, i cnat even begin at how stupid this is. yeah the parks should kill all the animals, people should be all that live on the earth.
we need to build a BIG space station, and start sending people who dont like earth to it
we need to build a BIG space station, and start sending people who dont like earth to it
gunsmith
member
this isn't complicated to me at all
If you get into a fight with a MOUNTAIN LION
it is better to have a GUN .
I live in San Francisco,within a 55 minute drive (less by motorcycle) is
a beautiful park on the coast with rich yuppies who feed the deer which attract the lions.
They have signs saying both "no firearms" and "warning mountain lions"
I ignore the firearm sign and pay heed to the lion sign (when I'm there)
I have never even been hunting and I do not feel like hunting mtn lions as I think treeing them with dogs is un-sporting.
I am not saying kill all cats,I am saying let the Bill Of Rights
reign in CA parks!
If you get into a fight with a MOUNTAIN LION
it is better to have a GUN .
I live in San Francisco,within a 55 minute drive (less by motorcycle) is
a beautiful park on the coast with rich yuppies who feed the deer which attract the lions.
They have signs saying both "no firearms" and "warning mountain lions"
I ignore the firearm sign and pay heed to the lion sign (when I'm there)
I have never even been hunting and I do not feel like hunting mtn lions as I think treeing them with dogs is un-sporting.
I am not saying kill all cats,I am saying let the Bill Of Rights
reign in CA parks!
Vern Humphrey
Member
"People, by and large, get the kind of government they deserve."
Vern H. said...
"we don't think yuppies are more valuable than lions."
So presumably you think you are more valuable than a lion, i.e. you'd feel justified in shooting a lion rather than letting him eat you? If so you are OK with putting yourself in a class that has more rights than others.
"People, by and large, get the kind of government they deserve."
So Vern I guess you deserve a government that puts other people in a class with more rights than you (access to guns), so don't gripe if the government takes your guns away and only lets cops have guns. You deserve it.
Your elitist attitude hurts our cause. Do you really want to chase people into the anti camp, rather than pursuade them into ours
"we don't think yuppies are more valuable than lions."
So presumably you think you are more valuable than a lion, i.e. you'd feel justified in shooting a lion rather than letting him eat you? If so you are OK with putting yourself in a class that has more rights than others.
"People, by and large, get the kind of government they deserve."
So Vern I guess you deserve a government that puts other people in a class with more rights than you (access to guns), so don't gripe if the government takes your guns away and only lets cops have guns. You deserve it.
Your elitist attitude hurts our cause. Do you really want to chase people into the anti camp, rather than pursuade them into ours
Vern Humphrey
Member
"we don't think yuppies are more valuable than lions."
So presumably you think you are more valuable than a lion, i.e. you'd feel justified in shooting a lion rather than letting him eat you? If so you are OK with putting yourself in a class that has more rights than others.[\quote]
That's between me and the lion. We'll settle the issue face-to-face.
"People, by and large, get the kind of government they deserve."
So Vern I guess you deserve a government that puts other people in a class with more rights than you (access to guns), so don't gripe if the government takes your guns away and only lets cops have guns. You deserve it..[\quote]
I live in a state where the politicians know, mess with our gun rights, and lose the election.
molonlabe
Member
After reading all these long-winded threads I think it is a great form of population control for an already overpopulated state. I spent a lot of time in the California wilderness and was never unarmed. Any one who wishes to do that well that’s their business but be prepared to possibly become part of the food chain or worse come across one of those dangerous two legged predators. I came across many a ranger who had no idea I was armed. You know concealed means concealed but always accessible. In my 4WD I always carried a 12 ga. Shotgun.
To the tree huggers I say kiss the bears they need to eat too.
To the tree huggers I say kiss the bears they need to eat too.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
KAR120C, you're working hard to twist meanings of what Vern said.
For instance, I am more valuable to me than a lion is valuable to me. For that matter, I am more valuable to me than you are valuable to me. Or, heck, Vern, for that matter.
I got a lion for a neighbor, "Cigar Mountain Mama". She and I get along just fine. I don't bother her and she only bothers the neighbors cats' and dogs plus some rabbits and javelina. She has a boyfriend, "Handsome Stranger", who wanders by from time to time to ensure a continuing supply of young guys to wander around and be scenic.
Sure, we have the kind of government we deserve. We vote for'em, and they give us the Queen's Elevator: The Royal Shaft. Thus has it ever been, even since before voting became enabled. We got away from the Divine Right of Kings, and now it's the Divine Right of Kennedys and Bushies.
Mark Twain, H.L. Mencken and Will Rogers offered many pertinent comments about Our System.
Some commentaries aren't new, of course. It was around 1797 where some astute observer commented that Democracies worked well until the public discovered it could vote itself largesse from the public coffers. FDR and LBJ took this to heart.
Now, I may sound cynical about all this, but rest assured I'm not at all bitter...
, Art
For instance, I am more valuable to me than a lion is valuable to me. For that matter, I am more valuable to me than you are valuable to me. Or, heck, Vern, for that matter.
I got a lion for a neighbor, "Cigar Mountain Mama". She and I get along just fine. I don't bother her and she only bothers the neighbors cats' and dogs plus some rabbits and javelina. She has a boyfriend, "Handsome Stranger", who wanders by from time to time to ensure a continuing supply of young guys to wander around and be scenic.
Sure, we have the kind of government we deserve. We vote for'em, and they give us the Queen's Elevator: The Royal Shaft. Thus has it ever been, even since before voting became enabled. We got away from the Divine Right of Kings, and now it's the Divine Right of Kennedys and Bushies.
Mark Twain, H.L. Mencken and Will Rogers offered many pertinent comments about Our System.
Some commentaries aren't new, of course. It was around 1797 where some astute observer commented that Democracies worked well until the public discovered it could vote itself largesse from the public coffers. FDR and LBJ took this to heart.
Now, I may sound cynical about all this, but rest assured I'm not at all bitter...
, ArtHey Vern,
"That's between me and the lion. We'll settle the issue face-to-face."
Well if you want to face a lion without a gun that's your right. Far be it from me to ruin your fun, though personally my money (and I mean every last penny of it, plus every dollar I can borrow) is on the lion. The thing is... you can do that even if the government allows you to have a gun. Just don't exercise that right. The problem with the existing situation (that you apparently support) is that you can't have a gun if you want to. You are no different than an anti who says "I don't want to carry a gun becasue they are bad/evil/dangerous/etc... therefore I don't think anyone else should be able to carry a gun, even if they don't think they are bad/evil..."
Jeez, with friends like you who needs anti's?
"I live in a state where the politicians know, mess with our gun rights, and lose the election. "
That's great. I envy you. However the 2nd amendment is federal. You live in a country that has people trying to grab your guns. Being smug about your individual state is short sighted, and foolish. And while you may eventually get the federal government you deserve, I think the rest of us deserve better.
"That's between me and the lion. We'll settle the issue face-to-face."
Well if you want to face a lion without a gun that's your right. Far be it from me to ruin your fun, though personally my money (and I mean every last penny of it, plus every dollar I can borrow) is on the lion. The thing is... you can do that even if the government allows you to have a gun. Just don't exercise that right. The problem with the existing situation (that you apparently support) is that you can't have a gun if you want to. You are no different than an anti who says "I don't want to carry a gun becasue they are bad/evil/dangerous/etc... therefore I don't think anyone else should be able to carry a gun, even if they don't think they are bad/evil..."
Jeez, with friends like you who needs anti's?
"I live in a state where the politicians know, mess with our gun rights, and lose the election. "
That's great. I envy you. However the 2nd amendment is federal. You live in a country that has people trying to grab your guns. Being smug about your individual state is short sighted, and foolish. And while you may eventually get the federal government you deserve, I think the rest of us deserve better.
cracked butt
Member
Our ancestors who lived in caves, wigwams, and mudhuts who had nothing but spears, bows and stone axes to defend themselves against predators would be either rolling in their graves with either disgust or laughter that our society has advanced to the point where dangerous predators no longer have to fear people who at this time have the availability of very advanced weapons, but have collectively decided to that such weapons could not be carried.
I feel bad for the people of California and other places who cannot protect themselves from predators. On the other hand, the people who use and have pressed to have these 'gun free wildlife zones' put in place deserve whatever is coming to them if they are arrogant enough to step into Mr Cougar's or Mr Grizzly's living room armed with nothing but their slow wits.
I feel bad for the people of California and other places who cannot protect themselves from predators. On the other hand, the people who use and have pressed to have these 'gun free wildlife zones' put in place deserve whatever is coming to them if they are arrogant enough to step into Mr Cougar's or Mr Grizzly's living room armed with nothing but their slow wits.
sm
member
So this here is a "Wilderness Park" ya say? Humm...I gots a real good idea.
Ya know it gets real stuffy in Politician Parlors, all that trying to take away guns, guns rights - gotta be taxing. Then I think about PETA, and all these Critters in a "natural" enviornment...doing what is natural...
I can see it in my mind's eye, The Politicians, the Peta Folks out on Bicycles, with box lunches of Fried Chicken, BBQ Ribs...
Just a Wafting through the Wilderness, visiting with nature and each other about how bad guns are, how happy the Lions are in a natural setting...
Use Enough Schwinn.
Ya know it gets real stuffy in Politician Parlors, all that trying to take away guns, guns rights - gotta be taxing. Then I think about PETA, and all these Critters in a "natural" enviornment...doing what is natural...
I can see it in my mind's eye, The Politicians, the Peta Folks out on Bicycles, with box lunches of Fried Chicken, BBQ Ribs...
Just a Wafting through the Wilderness, visiting with nature and each other about how bad guns are, how happy the Lions are in a natural setting...
Use Enough Schwinn.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Me lad, I'm NEVER without a gun.
Now, I fixed things in MY state -- you do the same in yours.
And if you stop sending antis to the Senate and House of Representatives, we may be able to fix the whole country.
ravinraven
Member
Darn.
I hit the wrong button and the reply page opened. Now I've got to say something.
I got lost back there with all the talk about the cat being less valuable than the man so the government we deserve makes it possible for the cat to shoot the yuppie. Or some such stuff.
I've got to re-read that and see if I can figure out what was being said.
rr
I hit the wrong button and the reply page opened. Now I've got to say something.
I got lost back there with all the talk about the cat being less valuable than the man so the government we deserve makes it possible for the cat to shoot the yuppie. Or some such stuff.
I've got to re-read that and see if I can figure out what was being said.
rr
Hey Vern,
Well we're trying to fix our state but we have two problems holding us up...
1.) Nobody here thinks guns are useful because everyone keeps listening to this sage from the Ozarks who doesn't care much that the government requires people to rassle mountain lions in the buff, except the prophet himself of course, he'd really have a gun anyway, because the prophet isn't concerned about laws in the nation that limit guns. That's why you find him hanging out on a national chat room that discusses laws on guns
2.) we want to give you the government you deserve
Well we're trying to fix our state but we have two problems holding us up...
1.) Nobody here thinks guns are useful because everyone keeps listening to this sage from the Ozarks who doesn't care much that the government requires people to rassle mountain lions in the buff, except the prophet himself of course, he'd really have a gun anyway, because the prophet isn't concerned about laws in the nation that limit guns. That's why you find him hanging out on a national chat room that discusses laws on guns
2.) we want to give you the government you deserve
Vern Humphrey
Member
It's very simple - the cat represents an initial investment of $10,000, and is appreciating at the rate of 6% annually, while the Yuppie was free, and is surplus. Considering the cost of money, the projected date for Social Secuity to stop running a surplus, and the waiting period to get a gun in California, the lions are better armed than the cycilists.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I love it!! If I had to predict how a Californian would react, I'd have said, "He'll blame everyone but himself."
It's YOUR state. YOU clean it up.
Hey Vern,
"I love it!! If I had to predict how a Californian would react, I'd have said, "He'll blame everyone but himself." "
Um... Vern buddy... first of all it was a joke. Second - you're right, I admit it, I am all powerful in my state and determine how everyone votes, I should blame myself (what was I thinking ). Third - MN is the postal code for Minnesota, so in the interests of accuracy lets hear your prejudiced view of people from the North Star State.
"It's YOUR state. YOU clean it up."
It's also a federal fight. I thought I was on a website that was in favor of winning that fight, rather than macho fantasizing about how much better they'd fair against a mountain lion than a yuppie would. I happen to think this is a great case for the pro-gun side. Perhaps I'm wrong. It just bugs me that you're evidently more concerned with your feelings for yuppies than in achieving gun rights. Was your mother scared by a yuppie when she was carrying you?
(secret note for Vern, the previous was a joke, but go ahead and reply as if it was serious. I recind my all powerful ways and give you free will to do so)
public note to everyone else... sorry to go on and on. I'll stop now. I didn't know about Vern. Now I do.
"I love it!! If I had to predict how a Californian would react, I'd have said, "He'll blame everyone but himself." "
Um... Vern buddy... first of all it was a joke. Second - you're right, I admit it, I am all powerful in my state and determine how everyone votes, I should blame myself (what was I thinking
). Third - MN is the postal code for Minnesota, so in the interests of accuracy lets hear your prejudiced view of people from the North Star State."It's YOUR state. YOU clean it up."
It's also a federal fight. I thought I was on a website that was in favor of winning that fight, rather than macho fantasizing about how much better they'd fair against a mountain lion than a yuppie would. I happen to think this is a great case for the pro-gun side. Perhaps I'm wrong. It just bugs me that you're evidently more concerned with your feelings for yuppies than in achieving gun rights. Was your mother scared by a yuppie when she was carrying you?
(secret note for Vern, the previous was a joke, but go ahead and reply as if it was serious. I recind my all powerful ways and give you free will to do so)
public note to everyone else... sorry to go on and on. I'll stop now. I didn't know about Vern. Now I do.
gunsmith
member
double naught-windhover
Don't hate me because my threads attract more viewers and astute opinions then yours
Lets not forget we are all on the same side (hopefully)
the side that says "The Right Of The People To Keep And Bear Arms"
Don't hate me because my threads attract more viewers and astute opinions then yours
Lets not forget we are all on the same side (hopefully)
the side that says "The Right Of The People To Keep And Bear Arms"
Vern Humphrey
Member
And we could win that fight -- if states like California didn't keep sending the likes of Barbra Boxer and Diane Fineswine to the Senate.
It would be -- if you'd put half the effort into convincing your fellow Californians as you've put into squabbling with us.
No, she slipped on a Californian and threw her back out.
(sigh)
Vern,
I'm not from California. I'm from Minnesota. That's what the "Location: MN" means. That's why I made the quip about the North Star State.
Even though I don't live in California, it bothers me enough that they have laws there preventing people from defending themselves, that I take the time to comment here and encourage others who believe in the 2nd ammendment to use this as an example in favor of guns, when they are talking to friends and relatives who are anti's. You are free to hold a different opinion.
I don't like the senators from California any more than you do. And so far I am doing much more than you to get rid of them.
As to "squabling with the rest of us" look around Vern. There is no "us", you are the only one I'm squabling with. And I propose we stop that now. Can I get an Amen?
Peace
Vern,
I'm not from California. I'm from Minnesota. That's what the "Location: MN" means. That's why I made the quip about the North Star State.
Even though I don't live in California, it bothers me enough that they have laws there preventing people from defending themselves, that I take the time to comment here and encourage others who believe in the 2nd ammendment to use this as an example in favor of guns, when they are talking to friends and relatives who are anti's. You are free to hold a different opinion.
I don't like the senators from California any more than you do. And so far I am doing much more than you to get rid of them.
As to "squabling with the rest of us" look around Vern. There is no "us", you are the only one I'm squabling with. And I propose we stop that now. Can I get an Amen?
Peace
Vern Humphrey
Member
Amen. And please accept my apology for thinking you were from California.
SnWnMe
Member
The lesson learned is: Don't throw your chain.
At least when mtn biking in Kali.
Shimano, not SRAM.
Amen
At least when mtn biking in Kali.
Shimano, not SRAM.
Amen
- Status
