Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Stirling XD, Jun 11, 2009.
I have always wanted to shoot a fly in my house with a gun.
"practicing", pish tosh, that fly was taunting her.
One agent in the D.C. field office let one go and missed a secretary be 2 feet in the next office.
Another agent in Detroit was getting his shotgun from the trunk of his vehicle and put a slug thru his car rendering it useless.
One agent shot his own hand while trying to take down his glock. He was no longer fit for duty and was fired.
I'm sure there were many others that were not reported.
I'm just grateful that no one was killed or injured (other than the agent that shot his hand).
No thanks, I'll blame her.
Unless they taught her to practice her draw in her apartment, disengage the safety and pull the trigger, all while pointing the gun at the neighbors apartment.
Geez, nobody is ever to blame anymore, it's always someone else.
Give me a break!
(eventually) when you keep one one in the 'pipe' 24/7.
I want to see what she looks like.
If she's hot she gets a pass.
As long as I get to be her next instructor.
Dry fire is okay. This was 'wet' fire.
... and it HAD to be a woman. I wonder about her new nickname; has to be one.
Seriously, lapses are a fact of life. There are only two kinds of gun owners and handlers; those who have had negligent discharges and those who will have negligent discharges. I've had mine. One. Long ago. I haven't had another. (Better than I've done with marriages; that's another story...)
I'd bet she won't do that again. Happily, it is not a tragic lesson, just an embarassing one.
Park Ranger getting home from work at 0200? Maybe a stopover at the local watering hole on the way home?
Sorry, but that is not the most intelligent post I've read lately. An awful lot of us have "kept one in the pipe 24/7" for twenty, thirty, or more years. Yes, complacency is a Bad Thing. However, carrying Condition One does not automatically equate to complacency.
The most important safety device is between your ears. Unfortunately, there are some, ahhh... variables in the aforementioned safety devices.
How do you reconcile these two statements?
no accident. It was a negligent discharge. If this had been a non-LEO type person you can bet the media would be calling it what it was.
Yep Moooose, you are totally correct. I guess time just flies when you are having fun..................... (sigh) I guess I have been having too much fun over the last few decades!
If stupid me puts my stupid finger on the trigger of a loaded pistol and then presses said trigger with my aforementioned stupid finger, resulting in a fired round, that's a negligent discharge.
Accident vs Negligent
For what it's worth, the only reason to hammer on the "negligent" label is to make it plain to someone that, even though the event was accidental, it was WRONG AND STUPID.
Now, if you want to use that label to emphasize, for yourself, that something you yourself have done was wrong and stupid, I have no problem with that.
To insist on slapping that label on someone else is making a value judgement that simply may not be appropriate.
For what it's worth, they DO have an equivalent in the world of traffic tickets: "driving without due care and attention."
It's used to assign blame and give a boost to the fine that can be assessed.
Once a person accepts/acknowledges that he, himself, caused the accident, I go no further with adding blame labels.
When a person recognizes his responsibility and cause, you've arrived where you need to be.
Blame does nothing to improve that.
It's an accident. Recognize the cause, learn from it, and move on.
It astounds me that you can say, with a straight face, that when a person has thumbed off the safety and pulled the trigger, the reason the gun shot is because she kept one in the chamber. If she had not released the safety and pulled the trigger, that live round would have remained safely in the chamber indefinitely.
went off" ( ). Hopefully, lesson learned, and all's well that ends well!
And yep, it IS instructive to note that there are two distinct types of "Accidents" - those caused by the negligence of one or more persons, and those (which might be termed 'true accidents') which are not caused by the negligence of anyone, but which are simply sheer misfortune or misadventure.
I guess all those underage drinkers in the woods must really be causing a ruckus if they need to hire Annie Oakley here to reign them in.
By a lot of member's logic here, they would both be negligent discharges, because you didn't do a good enough job of securing your weapon to not drop it.
This is a game that can keep going. The way I see it, this is a case of an accidental discharge. She accidentally took off her thumb safety.
I always check the chamber of any gun I'm handed after I take the magazine out. I don't carry a gun because I live in Illinois. I don't keep any of my guns loaded because I don't own them for self defense. I keep my ammunition in a lock box without any firearms that only I have the keys for. The way I see it, I have very low chances of ever having an accidental or negligent discharge. The whole with familiarity comes complacency argument kind of worries me though. Even though I know my guns are always unloaded, I always check them when I handle them. I don't know why people who carry could always just assume that they cleared their chamber.
A lot of members on here with the "It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when" outlook are also the ones who seem to really be pushing the negligence as opposed to accident opinion. Something about that seems wrong to me. Just my opinion though.
All I'm saying about one in the pipe is.
It's in THESE instances when these 'accidents' seem to happen.
I've learned some stuff about the 'one in the pipe 24/7' crowd.
They appear to be very competent individuals on the surface,
who have demonstrated why they need to be hot 24/7.
I understand it and respect their decision to carry that way.
It's the one's like in this instances (the Ranger, the US Marshal a few weeks ago,
the DEA agent in the class room telling the kids he's the only one qualified to handle this BANG... etc).
These are all competent people too and proficient with their firearms I imagine.
Right up to the time the trigger finger is in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I also want to say again, I respect your RIGHT to keep your gun with a bullet in the chamber 24/7.
But as I've said before, you come into my house you WILL be with-out one in the pipe or your not welcome.
Nothing personal. It's simply about safety and that's it...
Now respect MY RIGHT to have such
a safety rule as I respect YOUR rights to keep one in the chamber 24/7.
Negligent (accidental, unforeseen, unintentional) discharges happen to more or less everyone, once. From my experience, more unintentional discharges happen by 'zero tolerance over careful' gun possessors than those (of us) who have had one sometime in the past.
The late Will Rogers once said, "There are three types of people: Those who learn by reading, those who learn by observing others and those who just have to [urinate] on the electric fence for themselves."
There are some who do that sort of thing more than once, I suppose. Not many. I know of one, and I don't associate with him anymore.
Be well, cousin Welshman.
Separate names with a comma.