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Penetration Test - 210gr Partition 2936fps

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by beartooth, Nov 12, 2009.

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  1. beartooth

    beartooth Member

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    I did a penetration test with the 210gr Partition out of my 338Win Mag moving at 2936fps.

    Frist I used 9 hard plastic gallon jugs as the test media. I fired from 10yds away. Here are the 9 jugs measuring in length 49.5 inches or 4.125 feet deep.

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    Second here is the impact effect of the 210gr Partition and note it traveled to the back side of the seventh jug and punched a hole but did not have enough energy and momentum to exit the seventh jug. Also look at the front jug way off to the right and the 9th jug was knocked back and off the table from the impact. The 210gr Partition traveled 38.5 inches or 3.208 feet through the media.


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    Here is the 210gr Partition recovered from the seventh jug with the front part of the partition gone and the back like it is suppose to be. The back remaining part to the partition weighed 148.4grs.
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    I do not think there is any doubt about the 210gr Partition killing anything it hits up close or far off when traveling over 2900fps.
     
  2. 257WM_CDL-SF

    257WM_CDL-SF Member

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    I still want one
     
  3. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Bigfoot Wallace, my custom '03 Springfield in .35 Brown-Whelen turns in similar performances. It drives a 225-grain Nosler PJ to 2,800 fps. I shot an elk that was broadside to me, and skinning it out, the left leg fell off -- the bullet broke the bone and went into the chest cavity. As I continued skinning, the right leg fell off -- the bullet broke it on the way out.
     
  4. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Question about the weight retention:

    To what degree is a 210 grain bullet that ends up a 150 grain bullet superior to a 165 grain bullet that ends up a 160 grain bullet?

    Does the initial impact matter? When/where in its path of travel does it lose that 60 grains of metal?
     
  5. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Back when I was a lad (if you can imagine such a faraway time) the hunting and shooting magazines were full of stories of "bullet failure."

    The problem was, Hunter Number 1 would shoot a white tail or a pronghorn at 300 yards with a bullet fired from a .300 Savage. Hunter Number 2 would shoot a mud-encrusted moose at 25 yards with the same bullet, but fired from a .300 Weatherby Magnum. Now, how do you make a bullet that will reliably open up at low velocity on a gracile animal (Hunter Number 1's problem) and not self-destruct in the case of Hunter Number 2?

    The Nosler Partition Jacket was the answer. Think of the jacket as a tube with a partition in the middle. The walls in the fore part of the tube are thin, and there is a soft lead core. In the back part of the tube, the walls are thicker and there is a hardened lead rear core.

    The front part opens up reliably -- at low velocities, on lightly-built game. But the expansion stops at the partition. If you hit a big animal at high velocity, the whole front core may go, but the rear of the bullet plows on, trailing "wings" of the front end (look at the picture of the recovered bullet.)

    The Nosler Partition Jacket was developed about 70 years ago, and has piled up an impressive record on game.
     
  6. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    That's all true.

    However, we now have bullets that retain almost 100% of their weight, while expanding.

    That's my question.

    Does the 210 grains really mean anything, or is it mainly the 150 post-expansion?

    Stories of "bullet failure" in the past have been replaced by stories of surprisingly good performance from the likes of Barnes solid copper bullets, as in "that .30-06 seemed more like a .338 WinMag when it hit."

    I know how that works, but the modern bullets plow on, without losing the front core. I've seen a pile of expanded Barnes bullets, for example. They look like that Partition, same petals, same weight, but they started out as smaller bullets.

    So, with the NP you get 210 -> 150 grains, whereas with some of the solids you can get 165 -> 160 grains, and you don't need a big magnum to do it (a conservative .30-06 handload of a 165 grain GMX is going almost as fast as that 210 in a .338).

    So, does the initial hit from the 210 grain bullet matter, or does the remaining 150 grain bullet matter more?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
  7. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    But that doesn't necessarily make them more effective.

    The Nosler Partition Jacket is designed to expand and penetrate on all game, at all ranges. And it does that very well. It's been doing it for 70 years or so.

    What matters is game dead on the ground -- from white tails to moose or brown bear. And the Nosler has a long record of producing kills.
     
  8. cougar1717

    cougar1717 Member

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    Thanks for posting this. It's great data. Any idea when we might see the Bear O' Tooth website up and running? :)
     
  9. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Okay then.

    Does anyone have any thoughts about what I asked (which was not how old the NP is)?

    The last Barnes advocate I spoke with dumped the NP entirely, in favor of Barnes bullets -- PURELY because of his experiences with the Barnes on game like elk, compared with NP.

    I'm wondering what to make of that.
     
  10. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    What is your question?

    If it's "Does the Nosler PJ work?" the answer is yes.

    If it's "Does the Nosler PJ work reliably?" the answer is yes.

    If it's "Does the Nosler PJ work reliably on all game?" the answer is yes.

    If it's "Does the Nosler PJ work reliably on all game at all ranges and velocities?" the answer is yes.
     
  11. beartooth

    beartooth Member

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    ArmedBear, the Partition is designed to open up quickly disabling the game almost immediately and then driving the nail in the coffin so to speak with the remainder of the bullet that is behind the partition. This creates quick shocking kills while finishing the job and insuring a blood trail if the animal does not go down immediately. The trailing part of the bullet also shaders skeletal structure on large game causing them to many times go down not being able to travel. John Nosler's design in 1948 was truly a good one and he understood what was needed in a bullet to perform at all ranges and various velocities. He understood how shock and momentum can work together and designed a bullet that gave both.
     
  12. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    ROTFLMAO

    Anyone else have an opinion about what I asked?
     
  13. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    It opens quickly, sheds 60+ grains, and then does its actual work as a 150 grain bullet.

    Or does it? When/where does it shed the 60 grains?

    Right.

    But my question remains: if you have a bullet with 95+% retention, that is essentially the same in weight and structure as that REMAINING PART of the NP bullet, how would its effectiveness compare to the NP?

    Anecdotal evidence from hunters -- both about failing bullets and high-performance solids -- universally suggests that what really matters is that remaining part of the bullet, not the initial weight.

    If that's so, it would suggest that a reasonably hot .30-06 load with a modern, symmetrically-expanding solid that doesn't lose weight on the way in could perform essentially as well as that .338 WinMag with a bullet that loses 60 grains. I have certainly talked with Barnes converts who believe that to be the case, from experience in the field. I don't know.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
  14. beartooth

    beartooth Member

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    ArmedBear the front was not completely shed all the way through the first five and the front of the six jug. It did not shed in a few inches but went over 2 1/2 feet before completely shedding the front. There is know way a 165gr bullet can be compared to this 210gr Partition by any stretch of the imagination. That would be like comparing apples and oranges. The Accubond 200gr nor the 225gr Accubond will penetrate as deep as this 210gr Partition.
     
  15. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    That's not a question. It's a declarative statement.
    The parts of that sentence don't match. The 210 grains means the bullet weighs just short of half an ounce. The rest of the sentence I don't understand. Do you mean, "Is it the rear portion of the bullet, weighing 150 grains that makes it effective?"

    The answer is, both parts of the bullet make it effective -- as Beartooth said, "the Partition is designed to open up quickly disabling the game almost immediately and then driving the nail in the coffin so to speak with the remainder of the bullet that is behind the partition. This creates quick shocking kills while finishing the job and insuring a blood trail if the animal does not go down immediately."
     
  16. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Thank you. I think that's an important bit of information to know. So we're looking at a 200 grain bullet for at least part of its travel, going pretty fast. That certainly would outperform a 165.

    150 grains retained would be unimpressive, if it shed that weight on initial impact. I'm sure it does outpenetrate the Accubond, but I never wondered about that to begin with.:)

    That's what I was asking, Vern: When/where does it shed that weight?

    You'll find that in my posts above, for all to see. The questions can be identified easily, since they end in question marks.
     
  17. beartooth

    beartooth Member

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    ArmedBear, sorry I did not notice your question sooner or I would have addressed it.
     
  18. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    No sweat, beartooth. And the second part of my post was addressed to Vern, who kept trying to tell me I wasn't asking a question, not to you. Sorry if it seemed like it was aimed at you.

    Thanks for the info.:)
     
  19. DannySeesUSMC

    DannySeesUSMC Member

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    Rifles Bullets for the Hunter: A Definitive Study is a good book to check out. It goes over some of the testing of rifle bullets and tells some of the experience from authors - John Barsness, Richard Mann, Craig Boddington, John Haviland, Ron Spomer, Bryce Towsley....

    When you compare a Barnes TTSX, TSX, or MRX to a Nosler Partition or Accubond...it's a different type of beast. Barnes monolithic expanding bullets are a mix of a solid and a small frontal diameter hollow-point.

    In some of the tests using the Bullet Test Tube (which is better than ballistic gelatin as it shows wound cavity which can be measured) you see how a Barnes isn't necessary 95% of the time similar to the way a solid isn't necessary 99% of the time.

    Check out this page http://www.gunsandhunting.com/bulletshootout.html this is consistent with other tests and findings. When you increase bullet weight for these bullets that expand rapidly and shed some of their weight the damage is magnified even more. However a 180 grain Barnes MRX around the same velocity as those 150's in the link showed about the same performance.

    In this medium 12inches is given as an approximate penetration depth to where the bullet will either exit an Elk or similar size game....or be stuck just under the hide on the off-side.

    In the tests even the 270 Winchester 150 grain Power-Point load has more wound cavity than the Barnes .308 180 grain MRX and more than enough penetration for deer, elk, moose, etc.

    So that is why you choose these bullets instead of a Barnes MRX or Hornady GMX....unless you are shooting through 4ft+ of animal....there is no need and it is not more effective.

    Partitions are the top of the heap for the majority of hunted animals and Accubonds are right there next to them.
     
  20. beartooth

    beartooth Member

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    DannySeeUSMC, very well put and so right on indeed. I tested for 3 hunting seasons the TSX in my 257Wby, 30-06, 300Wby and 375Wby and because of that without going into all the detail I do not use them any more.

    The Partition is my main hunting bullet followed by the Accubond. Thanks for the impute, it was right on.
     
  21. DannySeesUSMC

    DannySeesUSMC Member

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    Sierra Prohunter 150 grain .308 $20 per 100
    Barnes TSX & TTSX 150 grain .308 $60-70 per 100

    Barnes = Wound cavity 160ml and 16 inches of penetration
    Sierra = Wound cavity 220ml and 12.2 inches of penetration - source http://riflebullets.net/fieldnotes.html

    Sierra with deer bone molded in - velocity at 2700 fps = Wound cavity 230ml and penetration 12.5 inches

    Would just get better with a heaver grain Sierra.....

    Why use Barnes for Moose and smaller??
     
  22. beartooth

    beartooth Member

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    I agree, that is why I use the 225gr Sierra SBT for my main hunting load on deer in my 358Win.
     
  23. DannySeesUSMC

    DannySeesUSMC Member

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    beartooth I like your test and pictures....testing speaks much louder than campfire type talk.

    It's incredible the Nosler Partition is an old bullet that can only be hoped to be matched in all-around performance. To get the same great performance the other companies would have to build the same bullet pretty much. It's just a brilliant design that covers everything we want in a hunting bullet...
     
  24. beartooth

    beartooth Member

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    Amen!!!!! You are singing to the choir now:D
     
  25. beartooth

    beartooth Member

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    More pictures of the remain back part of the 210gr Partition

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