People who confuse movies for reality...
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mack69
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Re:
Werewolf, way back when I was a kid in my 20's I shot a co-workers 44 magnum revolver ala Dirty Harry...I got 6 stitches in the top of my head for attempting to shoot that brute one hnaded like in the movies.
While we are talkin about movies...Am I the only one who notices that stuff ain't right?? A guy running into the alley with an semi auto pistolraking the slide then shooting the BG and coming out of the alley with a revolver!
Or Arnold in True Lies....flying a Harrier next to a building and then stepping up and out to help someone. Who is working the controls of the plane??
Or helicopter scenes in which the pilot is shooting or fighting or something else in the cockpit. I know a few chopper jocks...and even the best of em need full concentration to fly those things....and using both hands and feet to keep control.
Then there are the times when I was a kid and watching Bonanza...and seeing truck tire marks in the dirt road of the town...hehehee.
And don't get me started about the idiot gangbangers or other BG's in the movies that are side shooting their 45's...
And my 17 year old thinks he'll be a great shooter since he can aim and shoot bad guys in those oh so realistic puter/playstation games. I am still trying to get the rules laid out to him so he can get knocked on his keester the first time he shoots my GP100 .357 with a full load.....mack
Werewolf, way back when I was a kid in my 20's I shot a co-workers 44 magnum revolver ala Dirty Harry...I got 6 stitches in the top of my head for attempting to shoot that brute one hnaded like in the movies.
While we are talkin about movies...Am I the only one who notices that stuff ain't right?? A guy running into the alley with an semi auto pistolraking the slide then shooting the BG and coming out of the alley with a revolver!
Or Arnold in True Lies....flying a Harrier next to a building and then stepping up and out to help someone. Who is working the controls of the plane??
Or helicopter scenes in which the pilot is shooting or fighting or something else in the cockpit. I know a few chopper jocks...and even the best of em need full concentration to fly those things....and using both hands and feet to keep control.
Then there are the times when I was a kid and watching Bonanza...and seeing truck tire marks in the dirt road of the town...hehehee.
And don't get me started about the idiot gangbangers or other BG's in the movies that are side shooting their 45's...
And my 17 year old thinks he'll be a great shooter since he can aim and shoot bad guys in those oh so realistic puter/playstation games. I am still trying to get the rules laid out to him so he can get knocked on his keester the first time he shoots my GP100 .357 with a full load.....mack
This same guy idolizes Danny Glover on the Lethal Weapon movies. I asked him what kind of revolver he was using in that movie. He said, "It looks like a S&W .40 cal. I said, "I didn't think the .40 cartridge came out until 90?"
Am I right? The S&@ .40 wasn't introduced until well after the first Lethal Weapon movie right?
Oh yeah, he seems to think that he can load a revolver with a speed loader faster than I can pop a mag into a semi auto. Those damn movies!
Am I right? The S&@ .40 wasn't introduced until well after the first Lethal Weapon movie right?
Oh yeah, he seems to think that he can load a revolver with a speed loader faster than I can pop a mag into a semi auto. Those damn movies!
griz
Member
The screen is a powerful medium.
Years back when caller ID was becoming common, lots of people still thought it took two mintes for a phone call to be traced. That's how long it takes on TV.
At the insistance of a friend I watched Oliver Stone's film JFK. (I waited for it to hit television, no way would I pay for that) In it he states that one of the reasons that Oswald didn't fire all three shots is it can not be done in the six seconds available. Later in the movie it SHOWS three rounds being fired in LESS time!
Things like that don't bother me too much. What gets me is when congress, who should know better, starts making laws based on wrong headed public perseption.
Years back when caller ID was becoming common, lots of people still thought it took two mintes for a phone call to be traced. That's how long it takes on TV.
At the insistance of a friend I watched Oliver Stone's film JFK. (I waited for it to hit television, no way would I pay for that) In it he states that one of the reasons that Oswald didn't fire all three shots is it can not be done in the six seconds available. Later in the movie it SHOWS three rounds being fired in LESS time!
Things like that don't bother me too much. What gets me is when congress, who should know better, starts making laws based on wrong headed public perseption.
Werewolf,
So how much have I grown up in the 18 years since then? A couple of weeks ago there was a thread here about shooting two handguns at once by hooking your thumbs together. Well, I sort of tried last week. I "cheated" by using two .22s so there wasn't a recoil problem. I loaded five rounds in each and took a second or two to look over the sights of each pistol to make sure they were pointed roughly at the same spot. I then pulled both triggers as fast as I could. Nine out of ten shots were inside 20 inches or so at 25 meters. So it's probably possible to learn this well enough to get a group rather than a pattern. But I don't see any practical application, other than "Hey y'all, watch this."
I don't really see a reason to be ashamed of stunts like that. It's just for fun and I always make sure that everything is safe. Stupid, but safe. And I don't confuse it with reality.
You probably held it too close to your hip so that your wrist was bent. Try holding it with your arm stretced out a bit in front of you, so you catch the recoil with the arm, not the wrist.
Does clay pigeon shooting with one 12ga in each hand count? I distinctly remember getting the range master's permission as we were closing the range one day. Did I mention that I occasionally served as range master at a trap range when I was 18? I never hit a clay target one handed. I did however hit one or two from the hip, using both hands on the gun. I also made a couple of hits firing both barrels from the shoulder. One thing I've never tried though, is to fire both barrels at once while holding the gun in one hand. I wathced a shooting buddy do it and I took his word for it when he said that it was more painful than fun.
So how much have I grown up in the 18 years since then? A couple of weeks ago there was a thread here about shooting two handguns at once by hooking your thumbs together. Well, I sort of tried last week. I "cheated" by using two .22s so there wasn't a recoil problem. I loaded five rounds in each and took a second or two to look over the sights of each pistol to make sure they were pointed roughly at the same spot. I then pulled both triggers as fast as I could. Nine out of ten shots were inside 20 inches or so at 25 meters. So it's probably possible to learn this well enough to get a group rather than a pattern. But I don't see any practical application, other than "Hey y'all, watch this."
I don't really see a reason to be ashamed of stunts like that. It's just for fun and I always make sure that everything is safe. Stupid, but safe. And I don't confuse it with reality.
RobW
Member
This is another bit of reality: politicos are NOT interested in the truth, they are interested in VOTES they can gain. Thus, wrong headed bublic perception doesn't matter as long as it secures re-election.
I wouldn't be so quick to scoff at the outside world, many of these misconceptions permeate the thinking on this board, albeit in a generally more sophisticated way. To wit:
The Capacity/Reload debate. There are countless threads discounting the use of a revolver as akin to Ludditism. Usually, these complaints center on a lack of capacity without any acknowledgement that people can and do get grand juries and civil lawsuits for capping off numerous rounds from their CCW. Recently a pizza guy zapped a baddie 15 times with a 9mm. The perp would have probably been just as dead with 5 .38sp, but the circumstances wouldn't have been as instantly suspicious. I view it as a Hollywood vision whenever I hear of someone CCW'ing a high cap blaster and more than one reload.
The Dirt Trap. Various handguns and rifles are touted or maligned for their performance in terms of "combativeness" in regards to neglect, abuse, and "extreme conditions." Given that by far the vast majority of us are nowehere near in good enough shape or frame of mind to deal with prolonged periods of neglect, abuse, or extreme conditions ourselves, I have to wonder where the relevance of "combativeness" comes in for the average shooter. I can only come back to Red Dawn, Max Max, The Road Warrior, Predator, and The Postman as references where this may even begin to matter at all to the typical owner. "I may not be able to take it, but by God, my gun certainly can!"
I am sure there are many others, but my lunch has arrived.
The Capacity/Reload debate. There are countless threads discounting the use of a revolver as akin to Ludditism. Usually, these complaints center on a lack of capacity without any acknowledgement that people can and do get grand juries and civil lawsuits for capping off numerous rounds from their CCW. Recently a pizza guy zapped a baddie 15 times with a 9mm. The perp would have probably been just as dead with 5 .38sp, but the circumstances wouldn't have been as instantly suspicious. I view it as a Hollywood vision whenever I hear of someone CCW'ing a high cap blaster and more than one reload.
The Dirt Trap. Various handguns and rifles are touted or maligned for their performance in terms of "combativeness" in regards to neglect, abuse, and "extreme conditions." Given that by far the vast majority of us are nowehere near in good enough shape or frame of mind to deal with prolonged periods of neglect, abuse, or extreme conditions ourselves, I have to wonder where the relevance of "combativeness" comes in for the average shooter. I can only come back to Red Dawn, Max Max, The Road Warrior, Predator, and The Postman as references where this may even begin to matter at all to the typical owner. "I may not be able to take it, but by God, my gun certainly can!"
I am sure there are many others, but my lunch has arrived.
There's at least one guy who competes in IPSC in OKC with a revolver and I'm here to tell you that I've seen him load a revolver so quick that if you're not watching him do it but just listening to the shots you will not be able to tell when he's reloading. He is fast - really, really fast. He is way faster reloading his revolver than in my estimation 75% of the IPSC guys with pistols are reloading a mag and faster than probably 99% of the every day average shooter with whatever they're shooting.
The first time I shot IPSC I was so overwhelmed at how fast those guys shoot that I almost never went back. Well - I'm still overwhelmed at the speed those guys shoot and reload but I got over it and still occasionally compete (and get stomped - it's fun though - I am underwhelmed at the piss poor accuracy most IPSC shooters exhibit but then IPSC which is supposed to be about power, speed and accuracy is really more about speed and the scoring is heavily weighted in that direction IMO).
killermarmot
Member
yeah arthurd and I triedd the two guns at once thing. Ihad my 22 neos in my weakhand and his 9mm glock 34 in my strong hand and about 15 aluminum cans at...say 8-10 yards. yeah i hit em....2 of em. but it sure did look cool
yeah i hit em....2 of em. but it sure did look coolBerettaNut92
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Does he spray them with Teflon?
mohican
Member
HiWayMan "On another note. Anyone that thinks a shotgun is going to fold up an assailant would be well served to go deer hunting once. Out of twenty odd deer I've shot I only had one drop in its tracks. That was the one where my shot was so piss poor that I clipped its spine at the base of its neck. I still had to finish it with one to the vitals and it took what seemed like forever to bleed out. The other deer I,ve gotten, atleast those that have destroyed the heart and/or lungs have run upwards of 100 yds.
I use the deer comparison because they are quite antatomically similiar to humans. Organs are about the same size, muscle and bone structure is about equivalent as well. "
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So true
I have found that two of the best shots to drop deer in a hurry is the neck shot, and to break the front shoulders
by the way, the neck shot deer isn't blead out like a heart shot deer because the heart is not receiving a message to keep pumping
Over the years I have lost several deer that I've felt were heart/lung shpt to road hunters. I've seen bright , frothy blood and known that I've hit lungs and tracked deer right to gut piles
I've learned in a hurry that the quickest way to drop a deer is to disrupt its CNS or disrupt the running gear, ala breaking front shoulders.
For something about how much a person moves when shot, watch the history channels show on the bulletproof vest. The (70s?) clips of the creator of SecondChance getting shot by a .357. He doesn't go back 10 feet, or leave his feet. I think he does take one step back
The only thing that I've shot that was really flung is groungdogs.
I use the deer comparison because they are quite antatomically similiar to humans. Organs are about the same size, muscle and bone structure is about equivalent as well. "
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So true
I have found that two of the best shots to drop deer in a hurry is the neck shot, and to break the front shoulders
by the way, the neck shot deer isn't blead out like a heart shot deer because the heart is not receiving a message to keep pumping
Over the years I have lost several deer that I've felt were heart/lung shpt to road hunters. I've seen bright , frothy blood and known that I've hit lungs and tracked deer right to gut piles
I've learned in a hurry that the quickest way to drop a deer is to disrupt its CNS or disrupt the running gear, ala breaking front shoulders. For something about how much a person moves when shot, watch the history channels show on the bulletproof vest. The (70s?) clips of the creator of SecondChance getting shot by a .357. He doesn't go back 10 feet, or leave his feet. I think he does take one step back
The only thing that I've shot that was really flung is groungdogs.
griz
Member
I sure wish you were wrong but I know better. Almost any of our congress critters will tell you they have voted for bills they haven't read. Think about what that implies.
Third_Rail
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I actually found that playing one of the more realistic (in terms of aiming) games on my computer has helped me understand how to better aim a weapon.
Stupid? Sure! Does it work? Yep.
My first 4 shots out of a real (read: not .22lr) gun (1917 in 30-06) were in the X ring.
Stupid? Sure! Does it work? Yep.
My first 4 shots out of a real (read: not .22lr) gun (1917 in 30-06) were in the X ring.
Jake
Member
" True or false...
I've read that due to the recoil on the Desert Eagles, the gun can have FTE or FTF problems?
That's what I read and I tried explaining to the guy that the recoil is so strong that the gun will FTE or FTF. "
True. If you limp-wrist a Desert Eagle you will have all kinds of problems with them. I've seen guys that couldn't get three rounds straight to feed properly in DE's but when they let someone who knew how to handle them shoot them they had no jams at all.
I've read that due to the recoil on the Desert Eagles, the gun can have FTE or FTF problems?
That's what I read and I tried explaining to the guy that the recoil is so strong that the gun will FTE or FTF. "
True. If you limp-wrist a Desert Eagle you will have all kinds of problems with them. I've seen guys that couldn't get three rounds straight to feed properly in DE's but when they let someone who knew how to handle them shoot them they had no jams at all.
yy
Member
i can attest to the effect of Television!
I received instructions for IPSC match to *not* point the pistol up like a charlie's angel.
then I proceeded to do a charlie's angel after the first shot. Must've been muscle memory from the last time I shot .44 mag in a range. For some reason it felt good to raise the revolver after each shot.
Wow, I couldn't believe how television programmed me.
I also received instructions to *not* point the pistol down when moving from shooting box to shooting box. Of course, this is what I do right after the charlie's angel.
It was embarasing, but good to work that out of my system. But I worry when the next tv programming will appear and bite me in the rear
I received instructions for IPSC match to *not* point the pistol up like a charlie's angel.
then I proceeded to do a charlie's angel after the first shot. Must've been muscle memory from the last time I shot .44 mag in a range. For some reason it felt good to raise the revolver after each shot.
Wow, I couldn't believe how television programmed me.
I also received instructions to *not* point the pistol down when moving from shooting box to shooting box. Of course, this is what I do right after the charlie's angel.
It was embarasing, but good to work that out of my system. But I worry when the next tv programming will appear and bite me in the rear
Average Guy
Member
I think that happens in Daredevil, too.
I particularly enjoyed a scene in X-Men 2: A squad of guys with nice rifles turns to see who's coming up behind them--and the guns DON'T all make cocking noises! I couldn't believe it.
Anyone who doesn't think video games can be a legitimate training aid had better tell the armed services quickly that they are going about it all wrong with simulators.
I find the Rainbow Six and Operation Flashpoint series to be the best of breed for us mere mortals because you can actually, almost comically easily, die in some pretty spectacular tactical FUBARs if you don't at least understand weapons selection, rudimentary small squad tactics, communications and coordination of timing one's strikes. These two titles are the only games I have ever played that were even remotely capable of recreating the intensity of the times I boarded/searched foreign flagged vessels while in the Navy.
What both series are generally missing (not all criticisms are applicable to both) are hand signals, horribly wrong intel, picking up enemy weapons, ammo, or gear in a pinch, and IR night optics combined with an ability to time attacks or create blackout conditions. Both also need to be way more reactive in enemy AI routines to be more fluid and more disorienting to more accurately capture the uncertainty of chaos and stress when facing an unscripted enemy. It will take at least three or four more generations of bleeding edge gaming computers to get a VR type combat experience comparable with force on force simulation, but they are getting closer every time out.
I find the Rainbow Six and Operation Flashpoint series to be the best of breed for us mere mortals because you can actually, almost comically easily, die in some pretty spectacular tactical FUBARs if you don't at least understand weapons selection, rudimentary small squad tactics, communications and coordination of timing one's strikes. These two titles are the only games I have ever played that were even remotely capable of recreating the intensity of the times I boarded/searched foreign flagged vessels while in the Navy.
What both series are generally missing (not all criticisms are applicable to both) are hand signals, horribly wrong intel, picking up enemy weapons, ammo, or gear in a pinch, and IR night optics combined with an ability to time attacks or create blackout conditions. Both also need to be way more reactive in enemy AI routines to be more fluid and more disorienting to more accurately capture the uncertainty of chaos and stress when facing an unscripted enemy. It will take at least three or four more generations of bleeding edge gaming computers to get a VR type combat experience comparable with force on force simulation, but they are getting closer every time out.
Deavis
Member
I've shot a 44Mag and 50AE DE and thought they felt better than some 1911's I've shot. The fact that gun is heavy and large, which fits my hand great, makes the recoil very manegable IMO. Never had a single problem shooting no matter how fast I emptied the magazine. As far as carrying, the guy who owns them regularly uses them to make concealed carry rigs for people all the time. They must be some big guys because that gun is tough to conceal.
Destructo6
Member
I ran into a guy one time who said he carried an M60 with about a thousand rounds, an MP5 with about the same, and a shotgun with just a couple of hundred rounds. That was his "normal" combat load. Of course, he was instructing at BUD/S and had recently come from ST6 as "the word" went.
Watch Jerry Miculek shoot sometime. Your acquaintance may not be able to do it, but Jerry can; it is amazing.
Treylis
Member
Wow, I wish I had a mom like that. Mine hates weapons of any kind, refuses to carry even pepper spray, and doesn't even know I own any guns, much less that I'm a gun and gun rights fanatic. ;-)
(My dad and stepmother are ever so much better. Stepfather is so-so.)
That kid's cousin must live in Saint Louis. I saw a kid who must have been 15, with his first gun, a Desert Eagle .50 . His mother bought it for him, and ammunition
Flinching could not describe what he did with that gun. He would shake so much before a shot, there were holes all over the B-27 target at seven yards. Really all over, as in one near the bottom, one in the shoulder, one near the target carrier. I think he must have missed it entirely a few times. Scarey.
A lot of people think Glock has to be 9mm, because so often in the movies they say "Glockninemillimeter".
Tom Servo
Member
I could do that. I'd just be picking myself up after every shot.
And I imagine a visit to the chiropractor'd be in order shortly after.
Average Guy
Member
I saw one of those trauma shows on TLC once, and a guy came in with GSW to the leg. They dug it out and showed it to his girlfriend, and she exclaimed, "That's a Glock, baby!"
I thought, "Hey, that's pretty good. Wish I could do that."
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