Pepper Spray as a method of home defense?

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I've heard different possibilities of getting in trouble for shooting someone who comes into your house or who just comes in to steal, but not kill. I read from Doug Lamb's "The Facts About Defense Sprays And How To Use Them To Bring Criminals To Their Knees" (also known as "Tactical Use of Pepper Spray") that pepper spray can be used in residential defense. He recommends storing pepper spray by your bed, in your safe room, and also next to entrances where an intruder could come in so you can get the intruder if they try to barge in when you answer the door or happen to notice it when next to it (placing it up high out of reach of children, which OC may be safer and more appropriate than placing a gun up high next to your exterior doors). For home defense, he recommends getting a large fogger spray type, with a range of 15-20 ft so that it'll stay in the air for a few minutes (so that you don't have to be in the same exact room at the same time to get them) and so you'll have range. He said your house may not be pleasant afterwards, but is better than the dangers that come from someone coming in. What do all of you think of this? Could it be useful to use in conjunction with a gun? Or in situations where you might get in trouble for using a gun? If this is a stupid idea, forget about it, I just read about it from the American Security Institute and was wondering.
 
How are you to judge what they are there for? I've only lived in CA and NV but both have no problem with shooting intruders as you are assumed to be in danger of your life in your own home.

I just read about the homeowner who pulled a bat on an intruder and got shot, so yes I think it's a bad idea unless you live somewhere where guns aren't an option. Then get a dog. :)
 
It's not a stupid question. The use of force in the home is a state issue. Some states say you must retreat if possible and others say you may defend your self with whatever means necessary.

Either way, if you intend to defend your self in the home and state laws allow - use a gun. This is a practical suggestion. Would you trust your life to pepper spray? Would you bring a knife to a gun fight? No one says you have to play fair in a self defense situation. Then why confront an intruder with anything other than lethal force? You don't have to use the gun if it is not necessary, but you will find that if you do, it is much more effective than any other form of self defense.

One other point. You may not want to kill the person threatening you, but he may not feel the same way about you.
 
MY issue with pepper spray in the home is that it's an enclosed area. If you hit someone with the spray in a hallway you're probably gonna dose yourself as well. Also, the best thing about pepper spray is the potential blinding of your attacker. In an open or semi-open environment you can sidestep to keep your blinded assailant from charging you effectively. This is much harder to do in the confines of your typical home with walls, furniture and the like in your way all the time.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
 
Pepper Spray is not the best option in a confined space.

But it beats trying to use a kneaded eraser.:p
 
MY issue with pepper spray in the home is that it's an enclosed area. If you hit someone with the spray in a hallway you're probably gonna dose yourself as well.

Not as much of an issue if you use the stream and almost no issue at all if you use pepper foam.
 
If someone is forcing their way into your house you are in grave danger and pepper spray may not be sufficient to save your life and the lives of your family. Therefore it's value lies in it's use in conjunction with a firearm.

If you do not wear a gun while home, having pepper fogger sprays located so you could get to it at each door could allow you to lay down a fogged area while you secure a weapon.

If you carry a weapon continuously while at home it could be part of a defense to slow attackers down while you move to a more defensible position in the home. (stopping them before the get in is best)

If you are concerned about people breaking in then strengthen your doors so that it takes time and a battering ram to get in. This way you know they're a threat, have delayed or prevented their entry and have time to secure weapons and get to a defensible position.
 
What do all of you think of this? Could it be useful to use in conjunction with a gun? Or in situations where you might get in trouble for using a gun?
=====================================================

We (wife and I) always carry pepper spray on the street, in addition to cell phones, folding knives and (legally carried) concealed handguns. Pepper spray IMHO may well have legitimate uses on the street for private citizens as part of a continuum of force options for self defense, where other possible options might not be best for the situation at hand.

But at home pepper spray would be one of the last options we would choose for defense against intruders. We have fences, and dogs, and firearms for self defense at home. Intruders who make their way into our home have already breached fences, broken into locked doors/windows, disregarded or disabled our dogs and are therefore a serious threat. They will be met with lethal force if such proves necessary in defense of our lives.

None of us wants to have to shoot someone in self defense. We will go well out of our way to avoid it. But the threat or use of lethal force may well be the only option that applies in dire circumstances, and as much as we would regret it we would exercise the option if it became necessary. Defense sprays are simply not reliable enough to trust your life to as a sole option.

hth,

lpl/nc
 
hso, and Lee Lapin posts I agree with.


FWIW, if the temps get to a 109* F and the heat index makes it near 119*F , and there is a "boom", "bang" , "boom" , glass window breaks, and it sounds like a bull in a China cabinet...

*hack* , *cough* , *teared eyes*...

Just open the door to the barn shed out back with the various cans of bug spray, house foggers for ticks , and whatever else in aersol can went ballistic, then leave -snag the garden hose, just in case of fire.

Don't just stand downwind any longer than it takes to make sure no fire either.

Trust me on this...

Never ever saw another tick, ant, roach, wasp get within 2 blocks of that shed aftewards though.

"Honey, I was curious where my son stuck all that stuff when we cleaned out the utility room..."

I dunno, if BG times it right, here in the South, breaking into a shed, this might be a good deterrent. :)
 
One thing to remember: the purpose of Pepper Spray is to disorient an assailant long enough to get away.

If you're in your house, especially a multistory like mine, running away is not always an option.

I've carried the stuff when I run at night or early in the morning, because no one's outside but a few bums. Most of them are harmless, but some are crazy. I don't really figure any of them have firearms, but it could happen that I need to get one off of me so I can leave the area. Pepper spray is light, easy to carry, and legal under all circumstances here.
 
What do all of you think of this? Could it be useful to use in conjunction with a gun? Or in situations where you might get in trouble for using a gun?

How would it be useful? By the time you've finished using one the bad guy will be too close for you to take advantage of the only thing that makes the other useful - range.

If you are in a situation where a gun is not appropriate, feel free to use OC, assuming you understand its severe limitations as a self defense tool. If you are in a situation where a gun might be appropriate the Alaskan breath freshener is just a distraction from the serious business of survival. Defending your home against a criminal intruder is definitely a situation where a gun is appropriate.
 
tellner,

I was thinking along the lines of what hso said. Pepper spray isn't a substitute for firearms, but can be used in conjunction with a firearm.

hso said, "If someone is forcing their way into your house you are in grave danger and pepper spray may not be sufficient to save your life and the lives of your family. Therefore it's value lies in it's use in conjunction with a firearm. If you do not wear a gun while home, having pepper fogger sprays located so you could get to it at each door could allow you to lay down a fogged area while you secure a weapon. If you carry a weapon continuously while at home it could be part of a defense to slow attackers down while you move to a more defensible position in the home. (stopping them before the get in is best)"

I was thinking that you can't possibly have a gun on you 24/7 and even if you do you may sometimes forget. It also may not be appropriate or to hang a sidearm next to each exterior door even if it is high enough that children can't get to it, while it may be more appropriate to put pepper spray high up in those locations (such as using a OC bottle holder or velcro). That booklet suggesting having OC cans next to exterior doors that you answer may or may not be a bad idea. Then also you hear about homeowners shooting burglars who are obviously no apparent threat to the inhabitants but are loading stuff from the house into the burglar's car and the homeowner gets in trouble because the prosecutor argues that at that point it wasn't in defense of self. Would have pepper spray that shoots 20 ft been better in some those situations? Also, what if someone's chasing you through all of these rooms of your house with a sidearm and you happen to have one on you too? In order to shoot him you have to slow down and be in the same room as the intruder, which means he also has a clear shot at you? So what if you lay down some fog as you run so that it slows him down and if that doesn't work then start shooting? I don't know, those were just some thoughts. I'm not sold on any one side yet. I don't have a sidearm yet but want to get one. I'm just exploring my options for strategies and tactics. What are others' thoughts on these ideas?
 
That makes a fair bit of sense, GWQ. I do have other alternatives available. Antique spears, swords, saps, clubs and whatnot from the collection. I'm just not that big on pepper spray as one of them for a variety of practical reasons.
 
tellner, if you don't mind me asking, why do you not trust pepper spray? I was just thinking of it because although it's no match against Mr. Gun, you could use it to create a blockade when you're running across your house and if you put some next to every door, it's more forgiving than if a youngster puts several chairs next to where it's at and climbs up and gets it (vs a gun or knife, which I wouldn't want to put a gun next to each exterior door).
 
Putting it next to each door gives the bad guy an offensive weapon for free.

Moreover, if you have hallways or stairways, you may or may not be able to just breeze past an angry assailant, just because his eyes are burning. In my place, I wouldn't count on getting by someone who was still conscious, at several "pinch off points."

Again, pepper spray is only there to disorient someone so you can get away immediately. If you can't get away immediately, without passing the assailant, it's not good for much. It's better than nothing, but just barely.

On the street, it's a pretty useful form of defense. In an enclosed space where you're cornered, it's not so good.

As far as using it in conjunction with a gun, I'd sure be concerned about a murder charge if I had to use the gun. All in all, it's a bad plan.

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the man had been pepper sprayed, and while he was lying helpless on the floor, Mr. Bear over there shot him twice in cold blood." That's not what I want to hear.

Remember, most defensive use of a gun results in the burglar/rapist/etc. turning and running away. No shots are usually fired by anyone. Only in a few cases does the homeowner need to shoot. In those cases, pepper spray would probably not have stopped the perp either.

So, there's no reason to use pepper spray in conjunction with the gun. The threat of shooting will stop the crime, usually, without any spraying.
 
One thing to remember: the purpose of Pepper Spray is to disorient an assailant long enough to get away.

The purpose of pepper spray is to gain an advantage over the opponent.


You can use this advantage however it best suits you. Be it the beginning of a combined attack, gaining complaince, or running away.
 
if you don't mind me asking, why do you not trust pepper spray?
2 reasons: (1) Because it doesn't work on everyone. It works on enough that it's still generally useful, but the tactic is necessarily 'shoot and scoot'; (2) for your suggested application, that seems wrong.

Is Fox (random link) still the recommended brand?
 
GuyWithQuestions said:
tellner, if you don't mind me asking, why do you not trust pepper spray? I was just thinking of it because although it's no match against Mr. Gun, you could use it to create a blockade when you're running across your house and if you put some next to every door, it's more forgiving than if a youngster puts several chairs next to where it's at and climbs up and gets it (vs a gun or knife, which I wouldn't want to put a gun next to each exterior door).

A very fair question, Guy. Here's one form of my standard rant on the stuff:

Every once in a while there's a new self defense product that is guaranteed to stop the bad guys effortlessly with no collateral damage. CN, CS, stun guns, Tasers (which actually do a good job when used as directed), less than lethal shotgun rounds and OC. Shockingly, none of them fully delivers on its advertising hype.

OC started off as the Supreme Ultimate Bad Guy Stopper. The early FBI trials proved it conclusively. Proved it, that is, until it turned out that the Agent in charge of the experiments cooked the protocol and faked some of the results on the strength of about $800,000 in bribes from one of the manufacturers. I believe he's out of federal PMITA prison.

A little more recently the FTC examined the effectiveness of pepper spray. MSI Mace was forced to retract all claims for the potential of the stuff to stop violent attackers. Some years back ASLET issued a statement saying that, in its considered collective opinion, it was best used on non-compliant, non-violent suspects. In other words, if Bubba is drunk, disorderly and doesn't want to get into the squad car honk him with the pepper spray and stuff him inside. If Bubba wants to give you a holistic scalp massage with a tire iron forget the Alaskan Breath Freshener.

Some of the most interesting trials were done by the larger than life Phil Messina of Modern Warrior. After a couple decades of trials with hundreds of subjects he proved pretty conclusively that it just does not work on motivated, goal-oriented people. If someone's handcuffed and sitting in his cell he will sit there and hurt. A lot. If he's angry and coming towards you he's not going to stop. In fact, you've just made him stronger and faster. OC works through an allergic reaction. What is your body's response to an allergic reaction? It dumps adrenaline.

I've been hosed with OC. Once I was in a bar where the bouncer got out the fogger and lots of people were affected. Another time I was doing a research project on self defense for people in wheelchairs. One of the guys was really into it and had a can of the special Cop Only Not For Sale To Mere Civilians 5 gazillion SHU stuff. He grabbed me and put me in a headlock. Then he pulled one of his cans of OC and pointed it at me. And hit the button. I was completely unprepared and didn't have my intention set or anything. It hurt like hell, but all it did was get me motivated and goal-oriented. In this case the goal was to break out of the lock and find the nearest water fountain which I accomplished while employing all nine parts of speech with many Anglo-Saxon colloquialisms. Still another time was on a bet.

I'm nothing special. Bad guys who have been in prison are almost certainly familiar with OC. It doesn't really come as a surprise to them.

If the stuff were really effective that wouldn't help much. In an enclosed space you're going to get dosed with it. Even outdoors plenty of officers get OCed from the wind, from walking through the cloud, or from getting it rubbed on them while wrestling with the suspect. As the chief of campus security at a school I once taught at said "Sometimes I'll go home, and my wife will say 'Take off your clothes!' I think 'Alright! Baby you've still got it.' Then I realize it's because I got hit with my own pepper spray."

Pepper spray has its place. Its place is not one where you have to defend yourself against a violent felony. For home defense there are good alternatives to firearms. Dogs, sharp things, big heavy blunt things, and whatever else your imagination supplies.
 
Personally, soaking an intruder with pepper spray after I've shot them seems kind of cruel.

LOL. I tried to visualize that and just sprayed the water I was drinking all over my monitor...
 
Rocksurly said:
I sort of like this. It's not expensive. It's legal in all 50 states. I even bet it would do a nice job cleaning the dirty bricks on my fireplace with some hydrochloric acid in it.

Some years back, when OC was still illegal in DC, there were reports of people carrying oven cleaner for self defense. Would it work? Probably very well. Would I try pretty much any other tool before I'd do something like that? Lord, yes. If you have never seen what lye or concentrated acid will do to a human face, then thank your gods. It is a horror. Yeah, he attacked you so he doesn't deserve consideration as long as he's a threat. But I've still got a soul, shrivelled, blackened and malformed though it may be. I want to keep it that way, so I'll be prepared with something a little more humane like a 6 C cell Maglite or a machete.
 
OC for HD is a bad idea.

If they are there unlawfully you don't know their intentions but MUST assume they are there to rape/kill you. You don't know how many "they" are or how well armed "they" are. Could be one unarmed man, could be 10 men armed with guns.

YOU MUST STOP THE THREAT IMMEDIATELY, MEANING RIGHT NOW. OC is simply not going to do that. And with OC you must get close to the person. It's not going to work 20 feet away.
 
Wonder how many bodies are found each year with a can of pepper spray laying on the floor nearby:eek: ?
 
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