personal thoughts on open carry

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TAB, This is the relevant part of the first post in that thread:
altitude_19 said:
Someone said bars are out but other places of business ("Wal-Mart") were okay. I open carried late one night in Wal-Mart (Cheyenne, WY) once and was hastily advised by the manager (rudely) that it was illegal to carry in a department store. I had never heard of such legislation but agreed the authorities ought to be contacted to sort the matter out.

I might understand how you'd interpret that as saying that altitude_19 asked to have the police called. I do not see how that is:
showing how "manly he was"

You really seem to have a chip on your shoulder about this issue, jumping on everything you think is some example of an open carrier misbehaving. You really make me think that you must have some other motive for reading about people's experiences with OC in the worst possible light.
 
There is one in almost every thread about open carry. I know of atleat 2 in this thread alone that back up my statements.
 
TAB said:
I know of atleat 2 in this thread alone that back up my statements.

So which ones are they? Be specific.

If you want anyone to take your assertions seriously, you gotta back them up.
 
you can't see how being proved right, is not a mainline boost to the ego?
 


In the very first post, Altitude_19 wrote:
Someone said bars are out but other places of business ("Wal-Mart") were okay. I open carried late one night in Wal-Mart (Cheyenne, WY) once and was hastily advised by the manager (rudely) that it was illegal to carry in a department store. I had never heard of such legislation but agreed the authorities ought to be contacted to sort the matter out.

Looks like TAB is mis-reading the word "agreed" as "demanded." Maybe he should go back and read the whole thread and leave his biases at the front door.

And as noted in Post 102, calling the cops was the manager's idea/mistake.
 
Now, that all being said, bogie has a good point. Open carry does also open you up to someone knowing you have a gun and trying to tackle you for it, or just plain trying to steal it while your hands are full, or whatever.

Internet myth. Is there a documented instance of this happening to a non-cop, to someone who wasn't cornering a bad guy?

Nope, no horror stories, just a bit of common sense, like the fact that if you have four or five hundred dollars (or more) worth of merchandise hanging off your belt common sense tells me that some idiot will want to steal it. Whether he is going to try depends on just how desperate he is, and how careful you are.

The key is your awareness of your surroundings. I carried openly in Colorado for a long time. I had quite few rough looking guys scope it out, and the feeling I had from some of them (not all, but a few) was that they were running an internal debate about whether or not they could take the weapon away from me). You want proof of that, sorry, I have none, I have only my own feelings on the matter. I made eye contact and let them know I knew they were there, situation handled, we both moved on. However, it could go differently if the guy is more desperate, young enough to think he's invincible, or just plain stupid.

As I said, common sense tells me it's possible. I never said it was a reason not to carry openly, I simply said that the situation could arise, especially if your hands are full and you aren't paying close attention to everything around you, like can happen when you are distracted at a check out counter at your local coffee shop or some such.

As I implied, not a reason to not carry openly, just a reason to make sure you stay alert. The problem here is that carrying openly, in some places more than others, you have to stay at a more heightened sense of awareness than when carrying concealed. You need to be aware of those who might just "freak out"; it may be their problem and not yours, but it is a hassle you might prefer to avoid.

You also need to remember that you have several hundred dollars worth of fenceable merchandise hanging in what could be a less than secure position on your belt. Snatch and grab tactics work for purses, so the guy just might go for it. That Glock or S&W would buy a whole lot of crack for some junkie: he might even feel the need to whip out his cell phone and call for some help.

Of course the most likely thing as far as theft goes would be when you are distracted and the guy simply lifts it and runs like hell. He's got your weapon, I hope you can run faster than he can. Of course, what if he knows how to use it and you catch up to him? Also, it would be awfully embarrassing to have to explain that you were robbed and what the BG took was your personal defense weapon.

I never suggested that you don't carry it openly because of this, I simply advocated making darn sure it is extra secure because it's out there for the world to see.
 
loops post on the top of page 3...

Once again I have a "*** is the problem?" attitude.

I live in rural NW Arizona where it is well accepted, so my opinion may not be too relevant, but I simply do not understand why it seems to be an issue.

I carry concealed when I'm working and open when I'm not working. It's as simple as that.

If you don't like it that's fine, shut up and leave me alone.
For generations, going back to before the Revolutionary War, men in my family have open carried. My family has never missed a declared war in the history of the US.
It is my right, paid for with the blood of my ancestors. You got an objection, shut up and leave me alone.

Gun owners questioning whether they should open carry where it is legal is just beyond my comprehension. I thought that territory belonged to the liberals.


Here's my question: If you are a gun owner and for some reason have a fear of letting people know you are carrying a weapon, what are you going to do if you should happen to need to defend yourself or you loved ones? Worry about what somebody else might think?

If that's the case you might as well sell your gun.

Almost every thing in that post was "proving" to the rest of us that what he was doing was right, then came the attacks on people that had a diffrent "IMO" .


If thats not bing a "tough guy"/ "high and mighty" I don't know what is.
 
TAB said:
you missed my point... lots of people don't see it as a tool, they see it as a piece of jewelry or a cock piece.

Seriously? Lots of people? How many exactly? Can you cite anything authoritive? Do you know these people personally?

You sound like an internet commando and I suspect you have never carried a firearm openly. Those of us here that support open carry have carried concealed and openly, thus our opinion is based on actual experience not speculative conjecture and internet fantasy.
 
TAB said:
you can't see how being proved right, is not a mainline boost to the ego?

  1. If it is a "mainline boost to the ego", I don't see what's particularly masculine about it. Femmes have egos too.
  2. It's not relevant. It's been established that altitude was not seeking to prove himself right.
 
i am pro open carry. I just wish a lot more people did it. i mean a lot. get everyone out to do it. Watch the crime go down as millions of americans take to the streets and let the world know we wont take SHIEET anymore. When Americans were Americans. Watch the gang crimes go down when mothers fathers grandfathers and grandmothers aunts and uncles take to the streets saying we are armed and wont take it anymore. Im telling you i will be the old school crazy one carrying the 1847 Colt Walker.
 
Serious as a heart attack. there is a large number of people in this country that see guns as evil. Even more that see carrying a gun as evil.

I'm not one of those people, I am a firm beleaver in people being ABLE to carry a firearm, but I also beleave there are alot of people out there that should not be able to do so. ( I'm sure you know some one like that.)

For the record, I had my CCW for several almost 8 years before moving to a county that does not renew/ issuse them.
 
TAB said:
Almost every thing in that post was "proving" to the rest of us that what he was doing was right, then came the attacks on people that had a diffrent "IMO" .

That post wasn't about proving anything.

Loop simply believes that he has a right to open carry (which his family has made sacrifices to earn and protect), and the opinion of anyone that thinks he shouldn't doesn't particularly matter to him. He also deconstructs some of the apparent logical incongruities of carrying a sidearm but worrying over anyone seeing it.

I didn't read anything in that post that came across as macho, boastful, or "high and mighty".

I am a firm beleaver in people being ABLE to carry a firearm, but I also beleave there are alot of people out there that should not be able to do so. ( I'm sure you know some one like that.)

Yep. I believe in the First Amendment, but there are clearly some people who shouldn't be posting on the internet without supervision.

That's the sticky thing about Rights. As soon as you start putting provisos, conditions, restrictions, and limitations on them; they rapidly become privileges.
 
Guess what... all of our rights have provisons on them... does that mean all we have are privileges?

Your wrong about him proving things, but if you don't see that post in that context. Nothing I can say will change your mind.
 
SatoOrd said:
Nope, no horror stories, just a bit of common sense, like the fact that if you have four or five hundred dollars (or more) worth of merchandise hanging off your belt common sense tells me that some idiot will want to steal it. Whether he is going to try depends on just how desperate he is, and how careful you are.
It's common sense, but evidence doesn't back it up. In places where open carry is open, it doesn't happen. Ever.

Why not?

maybe because it's $500 worth of merchandise that bites back? I don't know. I can speculate all day on why there are no document instances of this happening (for non-cops), but the fact remains, it just doesn't happen.

Evidence trumps common sense.
 
Of course the most likely thing as far as theft goes would be when you are distracted and the guy simply lifts it and runs like hell. He's got your weapon, I hope you can run faster than he can. Of course, what if he knows how to use it and you catch up to him? Also, it would be awfully embarrassing to have to explain that you were robbed and what the BG took was your personal defense weapon.

Its been stated that there are no documented cases of this.

But I understand there is always a possibility of such example happening.

Solution: get a good Kydex/Synthetic retention holster. Unless said robber is well educated on handgun accessories, I don't think theft is anything but remotely possible, or at least highly improbable.
 
Ugh....

I OC or CC, depending on what mood I'm in and the weather. If I don't want to run the slight risk of a liberal freaking out and calling 911 or am going to a lot of places I work as a vendor, I don't OC. If the weather is nice, and I remind myself I have every right to OC I go to the park, get something to munch on and read a book.

I OC most of the time. I have had two people in my hometown call 911. Both times local LEO's showed their ignorance of the law. My lawyer straightened that out.

Funny thing is I OC in downtown Seattle at least once a month and NEVER have any problems.

The problems with OC are in people's minds. Getting shot first, having the SWAT team show up, whatever.

Most people don't notice it, or if they do, most don't care. Where I live there are a LOT of liberal freaky people per capita.

Beyond that, it should be up the the carrier. Who cares if someone is OCing or CCing, if it's legal then it shouldn't matter.

I get sick of seeing all the bias' and uniformed arguments that sound like they spewed from Sarah Brady's mouth. Why not just relax and not worry about how a person is legally carrying their sidearm. What's important is that they are legally carrying a gun.

I actually made a convert not only to gun carrying, but this person has decided on OC as a primary choice. Pretty amazing to go from kinda curious about owning/carrying a weapon to deciding they will OC as a preference. In today's society with so much social programming about guns, and then gun owners freaking out about OC that's pretty amazing to me.
 
Evidence trumps common sense.

Saw an argument similar to this between two cops once. One was in Charleston SC on vacation from the NYPD. He had to bring his car to the shop my brother and I were working at. The dealership was the warranty shop for the local PD.

The New York cop commented about the lack of common sense extras on the Charleston police car, like no bullet proof glass.

The Charleston cop responded with something like what do you need that for.

The NYPD cop just laughed at the yokel. He wouldn't have hit the street in that vehicle in New York, but Charleston officers used that car and others like every day.

You live in Arizona, I live in a city in Florida. I've seen the local slicer-dicer gangs stand up to someone with a firearm and yet run from someone with a knife. Why? Because these morons are familiar with handguns. They see people shooting with them all the time. Of course no on they know actually knows any more than squeeze the trigger and it makes a loud noise. They have no practical shooting experience, and they can't hit the broad side of a barn standing on the inside, but they see their friends going to the hospital with knife wounds all the time.

I once watched an idiot empty a .357 magnum into a small pickup truck from two feet away. It happened right outside my front yard. There were two people in the tuck and no one was hurt. The shooter couldn't hit a target at point blank range!

To you and me that incident shows that the shooter was a moron who couldn't hit a target if he fell on it. To the other street toughs in the area it showed that guns aren't really dangerous.

People in Arizona are more familiar with guns and even the idiots you meet there will have respect for them. You don't see that kind of respect around here. If the police can be jumped and have their weapon taken away, so can a private citizen. If open carry were legal in Florida that attitude would change pretty quickly, most likely the first time some punk got himself shot trying for bringing a knife to a gun fight. I just don't want to be the one to make the first example.

As I said, open carry is fine, just be aware of where you are and what the people around you are doing. Of course that is good advice in any situation.
 
ozwyn said:
some people like ketchup with french fires, some of us just like salt. others like mayo.

but we all like fries. My favorite way to have them might not be yours, but that's ok.

same deal with open vs concealed carry IMO

exactly how i feel about this never ending issue...(reminds me of caliber wars,glock vs 1911 vs etc...):rolleyes:

the way i look at it,everyone has an opinion and their welcome to express it but please don't try to turn people(me) in the direction that you think is best..

some of us here in the N.H./MA area just did a OC trash clean-up at Hampton Beach here in N.H.(where it's legal to OC)
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35570
we had no issues(just 1 GFW encounter...which turned out to be just a asshat sounding like an idiot,IMHO)
doobie said:
I had a single encounter with a GFW (as No Looking Backwards called it), it went something like this (please note due to the wind I had a hard time figuring out what he was really asking).

Him: "What are you doing?"
Me: "Picking up trash."
Him: "What is that on your belt?"
Me: "A Sig 239."
Him: "A what?"
Me: "A sig 239."
Him: "Isn't that a gun?"
Me: "Yeah."
Him: "Why do you have it?"
Me: "I always carry it around in NH."
Him: "Just don't shoot me with it."
Me: "I don't plan to shoot anyone so long as they aren't attacking me."
Him: "I'm just laying here and I'm not attacking you."

And I walked away after that.

i originally started off with my CCW permit-(mainly cause that's the 1st type of holster i bought(IWB) not to mention so i don't have to unload my gun while driving) but after buying a OWB holster(which i find more comfortable to wear) i plan on OC'ing more an more now that i fully experienced it in a public place and wasn't "attacked" by a bunch of anti-gun liberals..(which is one thing that kept me from OC'ing earlier on..)


"A right not exercised is a right lost"
 
Some more thoughts from a Nevada resident, where we can OC freely:

I prefer OC, partly because the weapon I'm most comfortable with is a Colt Peacekeeper, 357 caliber, six inch barrel that I've owned and often carried, for about 22 years now. I carry it in a Bianchi x15 rig, and this gun is the most accurate gun for me, in my experience. When you have a big gun, it's much harder to conceal. And big caliber guns, if you can control them, are more effective than smaller calibers.

And as for any criminal, it is going to be very hard for someone to take the gun away from a shoulder holster without getting shot.

So, comfort given a large caliber handgun, is one consideration.

Second--what do you gain by a CCW? Some folks think that a CCW class means that you are now trained and safe with handguns. Garbage! Here in Nevada, most of the class is on the law. The qualifying is done at 3,5 and 7 yards---which shows nothing other than that you can hit the broad side of a barn!
When I qualified years ago for a California 'Guard' card allowing me to carry, we had to qualify at 25 yards. We had to shoot both slow and timed (rapid fire). We had to score, out of 30 rounds, a 270 or better to pass. Now if every CCW holder had to meet this type of test, then I'd say that CCW is a good idea.

Finally, why should I be ashamed of carrying a firearm? Why should I care that someone is going to be offended? Let them be offended!! Let them be reminded that there IS something called the 2nd Amendment that guarantees me the RIGHT to carry that firearm and to protect myself, just as generations of Americans before me have. If they have a problem with that, let 'em move to Canada!! I just have no use for folks that want to subvert the U.S. Constitution throught their fears and attitudes. This is still America, and I intend to fight to my last breath to keep it a well armed America! :fire:
 
Back in the early 1900's, you can bet that people thought it was cool to drive around their brand new horseless carriages at a mind-blowing (for machinery) 15MPH, even though people were a little startled by them at first. Now, people don't bat an eye when a car passes by at 70 MPH.

I don't think everyone who drives around a Ford Model T or A is necessarily an ego freak, even though heads spin when they drive by, and even though they might be happy to see so many people so interested. Most vehicle restorers I've met are very humble and more than happy to give you a ride or talk with you about their vehicles. I am glad that some people have the hobby of restoring and preserving pieces of history. I feel the same way about rights.

I OC at times because I see it as a great educational tool. People see someone who is not in uniform carrying a firearm, and miraculously (to them) they don't get shot out of the blue. Create such neutral (or positive) associations, and you've just made a the world a more firearm-friendly place.

The first comment I ever received when open carrying was from a store clerk, who said, "Coming back from a little shooting this morning?" I laughed and said, "Nope." "Are you an officer?" "No," [and to reassure him, in case he was uneasy] "it's legal." He then asked me what kind of pistol it was, where the nearest places to shoot were, and what you needed to be able to shoot there.

That's why I OC.

-Sans Authoritas
 
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Sans Authoritas, As many times as I've tried to say why I carry openly, I've never said it better than you just did. Well said, sir.
 
I do both (OWB, forward cant, usually with cover), and although as a rule I try to only go open around people who know me, I'm not gonna freak out if someone else gets a glance.

Some people have different social hangups about going armed. A 21 year old military man carrying a sidearm in civvies doesn't arouse much if any negative comment. My 50yr old father would have a somewhat different reaction if he got made at work,which is why as a rule he keeps his in his car and only straps it on when going into bad neighborhoods.

Anyone trying to get my weapon free of its holster would basically have to be in front of me. I've been pretty well conditioned by the need for constant saluting to keep a hand free. I've got decent situational awareness. I gotta say, I think trying to "snatch" my pistol would not end very well.
 
Common Sense

JessL has it Just Right. Open carry is in fact one way to educate folks that firearms owners are not a threat. I also agree with him that much of what's been said about being the first one shot in a robbery is mainly hypothetical with little to no evidence to support it. I think just the opposite is probably true since most criminals are opportunists and cowards.

I practice both methods of carry in Nevada. Never have been hassled or even questioned about it. Most folks, surprisingly, don't even notice and those who do have never said anything negative.

Of course when I do Open Carry, I pay extra attention to the way I look and the general demeanor because I'm aware of being a Goodwill Ambassador.
 
Insofar as retaining your gun, a handy little Fox pepperspray in a weak hand pocket isn't a bad thing to have.
 
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