Pet bond-why so many refused to leave NOLA

[Sergeant Bob]

I love my Jack Russell like a son. If anyone tried to steal him away from us I think I could shoot them. If he eats the remote control he's worm food.

 

[silverlance]

hm.. it seems like people aren't arguing, they're pontificating two diffeent things

group a people here (the ones who say dogs equal or above humans is inhumane) seem to be outraged that people would insist that pets be allowed rescue at the possible cost of people.

the funny thing is, nobody here is arguing that fluffybutt ought to have a right to a place aboard the transport.

group b people here (the ones who are "arguing" with group a) are stauchly defending their right to equate their pets with people in terms of their own personal heirarchy and refuse to abandon their pets, choosing instead to stay behind in their little well-stocked bunkers...

so what's the argument?

anyway -

I have a dog that can probably survive on his own given any kind of disaster - after all, he managed to survive at least half a year on his own in downtown los angeles, and that's no mean feat for those of you who have spent time in CA. he's well fed, his hunting instincts are still pretty sharp (a squirrel killer), knows how to swim for short distances (although he hates doing so), and has a nice thick shiny coat.

If i had to evac? i'd leave him behind with a big bag of food and a 55-gallon long tub full of water. i'd also leave a window open so he can leave if he needs to. would i feel bad about it? yes. but I wouldn't demand Joe be let on board...

I'd much rather, of course, stay behind after pushing my family onboard. I've got food, water, fuel, guns, and a nice plan for riding it out. I'm prepared to pitch a tent on top of my house if it collapses. seems that lots of folks share the same ideology.

and if the LA river suddenly swelled up and snatched off my dog and some random stranger? hm... this stranger better be really cute and grateful-looking because while i know that if i save my dog i have a partner and a buddy who won't sue me if i happen to break his legs saving him, I can't say the same for this stranger...

besides, I suck at swimming.

 

[Buzztail]

My wife and I are unable to have children ... this has been harder on my wife then on me (I kinda feel like I dodged a bullet there ).

Our pets are the closest thing we'll ever have to children and as such they are treated like our children.

So while some people are able to make that choice between the lives of animals and the lives of people, my wife feels the same about our pets as though they were people and woe be unto the "rescuer" who tries to separate her from her "children" (yes, she knows how to use that knife in her hand).

+1 Sounds just like my house- all the way down to "dodging bullets"

That's the biggest crock of bull i've read today. I have no legal or moral responsibility to save anyone's life. None.

+1 here too. Would I choose to save my bulldogs lives? You bet- they'd give their lives for me on any given day of the week- the "person" in the senerio would most likely take mine to save his without a second thought.....

 

[joab]

silverlance
No dogs do not equate to humans overall and should not be allowed to bump humans from the rescue transport.
I should be allowed, without question,to remain with my pets if they are not allowed transport at the same time as I, if I so choose.

My choice should in no way be forced on anybody else anymore than their choices be forced on me

But I see your point the discussion seems to be all over the place, just makes it that much more fun and interesting ( I think it's off though)

 

[WYO]

This thread proves that a lot of people are willing to die for their animals. It sounds like we need a reverse SOS, like DNR (Do Not Rescue), that should be used to tell rescuers from afar not to waste valuable time and resources trying to save people who don't want to be saved.

One problem that I did see, though, and which is not necessarily related to animals, is that people repeatedly ignored warnings to leave, then decided at the very last second that they really wanted to be someplace else after all. (In some cases that even meant they did abandon their animals.) They then expected people to risk their butts to save them.

 

[dustind]

There is no point guessing what people would do if they had to choose between fluffy butt and and a human being. That situation has happened many times before and as it turns out people will leave humans behind for all sorts of reasons, some better than others.

I love the idea of "Do Not Rescue." I wish the goverment would never force "help" on people who do not want it.

 

[Buzztail]

I love the idea of "Do Not Rescue." I wish the goverment would never force "help" on people who do not want it.

I'd be all for that myself.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I know if someone was out to rescue me and said you have to leave your pets, they could keep going. Stupid or not, animals you love become family and logic has nothing to do it. The government shouldn't have the right to force people to comply with a rescue if they don't want to under those conditions. That's like saying "We have room for you, but your children will have to be picked up later - if we get to them in time."

In my opinion that makes about as much sense of telling law abiding gun owners that have to surrender their weapon to restore law and order....

 

[bigjim]

OK so your stuck on the roof with fluffy butt. chopper comes with room for only one of you. One can go, one will die.

Ok Animal lovers..... would you put fluffy butt on the Helo and then you stay to die?

Can't wait to hear the answers to this.

I think any pet owner should be able to give up his seat on the rescue chopper for his pet. Then when the pet survives and the owner dies its a win/win both in terms of misguided compassion and natural selection.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

OK so your stuck on the roof with fluffy butt. chopper comes with room for only one of you. One can go, one will die.

Ok Animal lovers..... would you put fluffy butt on the Helo and then you stay to die?

Can't wait to hear the answers to this.

I think any pet owner should be able to give up his seat on the rescue chopper for his pet. Then when the pet survives and the owner dies its a win/win both in terms of misguided compassion and natural selection.

Depends on the person and the dog. You have to understand that with human beings there is a preexisting (call it instinctive) behavior template that we inherit. Its purpose is to make sure that our offspring will survive in case of an emergency, but with dog people, this relationship extends to their pets in exactly the same way. People have entered burning buildings to rescue their pets, and been killed in the process. This is not at all uncommon. So you don't need to speculate on the answer to your question. It happens all the time. To real dog people, their dogs fill the same spot as a child would, and they would react in regard to their safety in exactly the same way.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I've had two dogs and feel the same way about my cats - so if I'm on the roof, given their size, why can't they come along for the ride? I agree, if you don't have a bond with your pet, it's not something one can relate to or understand. People have drown trying to save their dogs, run back into burning buildings looking for their cats, farmers risked everything to save their horses, cattle, one stray sheep, etc., despite the dangers. It's a natural instinct to save those you love whether on two or four legs.

 

[telomerase]

OK so your stuck on the roof with fluffy butt. chopper comes with room for only one of you. One can go, one will die.

The point is that it should be your decision, not some FEMA idiot's. (And maybe if you were terminally ill even your decision might come down in favor of your pet iguana).

There wouldn't be any arguing over this if we weren't trying to be socialists and have one big master plan for everyone. Obviously if everything was private no one would be whining about a rescue org that only offered to rescue Homo sapiens, or even one that only rescued pretty girls.

Of course if we weren't trying to run a socialist economy we wouldn't have government housing projects in flood zones, or be depending on government to "rescue" us from our own guns and pets.

people are more important than animals

What people? Pol Pot? Stalin, Mao, Hitler, FDR, Idi Amin? Important to whom? If I'm choosing to spend my own resources, I'll sure rescue my own wolf before I rescue a lot of "people".

 

[telomerase]

Are there any Tooks left?

P.S. For a really relevant fictional parallel of what's happening in America regarding our transformation into a police state, and the proper reaction of the people thereto, read Chapter VIII The Scouring of the Shire, in J.R.R. Tolkien's Return of the King, which is book III of The Lord of the Rings. Very meaningful for our times.

+1

 

[Buzztail]

If the govt wants to haul off a bunch of homeless folks, put them up in shelters, give them food and water until they get back on their feet....
The entire country is full of people like that, not just the Gulf Coast post storm.
We'll stay put, and let someone else take our places that need it more than me or my dogs.

 

[marley]

The dogs name is marley. That should answer the first question. I would not leave him behind. I would not just trust some stranger with his care. I also would not wait for someone to save me, Only a fool does. The rules are, Never lie to the dog. Never hurt the dog. Allways trust the dog. Never ever get between a boy and his dog.
I like the clash quote. I like from clampdown. " Only a fool will think someone will save you". I agree that in a shtf situations that humans that are encountered are suspect at best. The are most likely a threat. I don't trust anybody that the dog does not like. Really most any dog will do, If they don't like you I don't trust you. Sort of like in the terminator how the dogs could smell them. Sort like in Dean Koonthz's book twilight eyes. The dog can't lie. He has protected me and I have done the same for him. I will continue to do so till the end of his days. Then repeat the process with the next dog. Patrick

 

[jefnvk]

farmers risked everything to save their horses, cattle, one stray sheep, etc

I don't think that is the same. That would be more like a business owner running into the building to save important papers or something like that. The farmer is saving his livelihood, not protecting something out of emotional attachment. Still not worth it, IMHO.

The point is that it should be your decision, not some FEMA idiot's. (And maybe if you were terminally ill even your decision might come down in favor of your pet iguana).

If FEMA is the one rescuing you, yeah, it is their decision on what gets to come along. You wanted your pet to come along? Should have evac'd earlier. When it comes down to you needing your butt rescued, along with others, the decision to bring the pets along is no longer yours. Either stay put with them, or leave them.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I read about a rancher that died trying to save one young sheep that strayed and was in danger. He could have stood to lose one but unfortunately died trying to help the sheep - I don't recall what had happened. It wasn't his business investment and his family said he just loved animals and couldn't bear anything bad happening to the little one so he went after it. People do foolish things for animals, but whether you agree with it or not, it's a stupid policy to leave animals behind. I remember one man screaming that he'd lost everything and yelled "I'm not going to lose my damn dog too by leaving him behind!" Strong statement but when there's nothing left but an animal you love, it's a cold thing for FEMA not to take this into account. Their world's upside down, the jobs are gone, the house is gone, some family are also gone, friends - now you get the joy of knowing your animal is going to slowly starve to death or drown trying to get to you. Gee...what a lovely policy.

 

[GunGoBoom]

I'am with Tory. I'd die before I abandon either of my dogs.

+1. They are my 'kids'.

 

[F4GIB]

As they used to say (probably still do) in the West:
"I've never met a horse needed stealing. But I've met many men who needed hanging."

 

[Hardware]

OK so your stuck on the roof with fluffy butt. chopper comes with room for only one of you. One can go, one will die.

Ok Animal lovers..... would you put fluffy butt on the Helo and then you stay to die?

Can't wait to hear the answers to this.

I think any pet owner should be able to give up his seat on the rescue chopper for his pet. Then when the pet survives and the owner dies its a win/win both in terms of misguided compassion and natural selection.

Let's try paraphrasing what you are saying and ask you the same question.

You are stuck on the roof with your best friend. Chopper comes with room for only one of you. One can go, one will die. Do you put your best friend on the helo and stay to die or do you leave and let your best friend perish?

Can't wait to hear your answer to this.

I think you should let your best friend go. It's a win/win situation for the betterment of the (human) species.

 

[gunsmith]

you can take my dog from my cold dead hands

No pets /no guns = no evac. My choice.

I have owned doggies and cats, right now I don't...but if I did they would be going with me, along with my wallet, passport and guns.
But I think I would have gotten out of NOLA before hand or I would be prepared to stay

 

[joab]

Ok Animal lovers..... would you put fluffy butt on the Helo and then you stay to die?

Why all the animosity to the group that has a moral code that they are willing accept responsibility for

I think any pet owner should be able to give up his seat on the rescue chopper for his pet. Then when the pet survives and the owner dies its a win/win both in terms of misguided compassion and natural selection.

You have one group willing to make personal sacrifices for what they believe and another who either feels the need to force others to take their approved course of action of just feels the need to ridicule the ones who have made a personal commitment to something that they feel is important to them whlie harming no others or forcing them to bow to their will

Now which group would we be better off without?

 

[bjbarron]

Me and my dog sat in the crosshairs of 3 hurricanes last year, the eye of which crossed directly over my house. Whether we survive or not, we do so together.

Yep.

Leaving that mooch behind would be the same as leaving a family member. Ain't gonna happen. Wife up, mooch up, then me. If someone has to stay...it's me.

 

[bigjim]

Sorry Joab I don't see it that way.

I think human beings owe each other certain things. For instance Joab know this, in an emergency in which you are killed or lost, if I was there I would come to the aid of your family even though they are strangers because it is the right thing to do. If I was in a boat that could not hold any more, I would toss my dog out to save your babies.

This is what human beings do.

Likewise, if my wife or children were left die because some guy on this board choose his dog over them, that "guy" had better hope I am really dead. Call that Internet bravado if you want to.

Why am I hostile to you guys with a code? Because you’re breaking the rules.
You’re tossing out one of the most fundamental threads that bind us together out of an immature loyalty code miss-applied to an animal.

In an emergency when the chips are down the rest of us had better know you will step up. Human beings live in a community; we are bound together with certain assumptions about behavior.

The real thing, the sad thing that is going unsaid, is that you guys with a code are stunningly selfish. Imagine letting another mans child die to save you the heart ache of a lost dog!

I am sorry mister neighbor man that your bottled water got carried away in flood waters. I need to keep my freaking cat alive so your kids can't have any of my water.

I don’t think so…….. BAM!

So yeah Joab you guys with a code that think you live in a world where other men’s wives and children are less valuable than your dog piss me off. You’re the enemy and can not be trusted to do the right thing. You’re the stuff cowards are made from.

 

[bigjim]

hardache said: Let's try paraphrasing what you are saying and ask you the same question.

You are stuck on the roof with your best friend. Chopper comes with room for only one of you. One can go, one will die. Do you put your best friend on the helo and stay to die or do you leave and let your best friend perish?

Can't wait to hear your answer to this.

I think you should let your best friend go. It's a win/win situation for the betterment of the (human) species.

Just plain silly. Your turn around of my question is easy to answer. I would talk it over with my human best friend and we would make a choice based on the situation.

A dog can not be my best friend, neither can a carrot or a potato.