Phoenix Arms Pistol--Do you have one?

[aaaaa]

I just picked up a used Phoenix HP22A which is a .22 LR. It came with a 3-inch barrel, but there is an optional 5-inch barrel. I have read a lot of good reviews on the accuracy of this gun and a few that were negative, claiming it is a cheap Saturday Night Special made of pot metal. Well it may be a zinc alloy but, according to this article, it has steel inserts in the right places, likely making it every bit as good as a plastic fantastic:

The frame, slide, and barrel housing of the single-action Phoenix are made of non-magnetic material, presumably zinc castings, but with steel inserts at appropriate locations, such as within the barrel, on the breech face, and where the slide presses against the hammer to cock it during ejection. Most internal parts are steel. Before you reject this gun out of hand, note that this is a similar concept to putting steel inserts into plastic guns, as done by Glock, Ruger H&K, and a host of others. Is plastic stronger than zinc alloy?

Another complaint is the numerous safeties make it hard to run this gun. There are three safeties I am aware of: a firing pin block safety, a hammer block safety, and a a safety that prevents firing one in the chamber if there is no mag in the well. However, most or all of these safeties can be easily defeated (see numerous You Tube videos on how it is done). Most annoying probably is that you cannot drop the mag when the hammer safety is on fire, must move it to safe first.

I haven't fired mine yet (except to fire an empty case and the primer lit) but I bought some standard velocity lead round nose ammo for it because there have been frame cracking issues that apparently are because of people firing high velocity ammo. Phoenix has a very strict limit for what ammo to fire out os the .22:

HP22/HP22A
CARTRIDGE: 22 LONG RIFLE
BULLET WEIGHT: 32/40 GRAINS
BULLET STYLE: LEAD ROUND NOSE
VELOCITY: 1050/1150 FPS (FEET PER SECOND)

Another quirk is there is no slide lock for an empty magazine, which if you don't count your shots will result in dry firing a .22, which is a big no-no. The hammer safety is used to manually locks the slide back. I already purchased some modified followers that will stop the slide from returing on an empty magazine. The factory follower is rounded at the back so the slide pushes it down and comes forward. The modified followers are squared at the back and the slide cannot push them down so stops. Also I purchased a extra strength slide spring because the stock one supposedly wears out in 500-1000 rounds (Phoenix sells them in 5-packs).

The Company has a good website that offers spare parts at reasonable prices as well as extra magazines and barrels. They even have a .25 ACP model. They sell the .22 separate or in kits that have various accessories such as the spare 5-inch barrel.

Once i have the slide locking followers and the heavy duty slide spring, I'll hit the range. Oh, and their is no guide rod to stick out the front of the gun when the slide is back. I kind of like that feature. The slide spring is captured between the frame and the stationary barrel, so really can't go anywhere when running the gun.

 

[ontarget]

There are 4 of them in my family.
They have all been very reliable, and we are completely satisfied with them.
Just like the Heritage Rough Rider, if you enjoy it for what it is instead of comparing it to guns that cost 3-4 times more, you will probably be happy with it.
FWIW, I nearly grabbed one in 25 auto earlier today, but the seller wanted too much for it.

 

[TTv2]

It's a favorite, albeit not one I take to the range too often. Once the safeties get fixed I like the way it feels and shoots, enough that if I ever feel the need to buy a .25 again, I will buy the Phoenix and if Phoenix made a properly scaled .32, I'd buy that ASAP. Don't have the 5 inch barrel, don't know if I have a need or a reason to either.

The safeties are easy to fix, the mag drop safety you can dremel the tab off that blocks the mag button from releasing the mag in a minute, the mag disconnect safety just needs some shims to keep it lifted out of the way. Firing pin block is only ever used when I want to dry fire the pistol. A lot of fuss is made over these safeties and they're absolutely not a dealbreaker at all.

There are improvements I wish Phoenix would implement or add on in a Gen 2 model, I would like replaceable sights, a rail for mounting a light, and models that are able to shoot high and hyper velocity ammo and warrantied for it. I only shoot standard velocity thru mine, I wouldn't be opposed to shooting hotter stuff if I needed to.

I can't remember why I bought mine, I guess I just had to see if a $125 gun could be any good. Turns out yes, yes they can. Weight is definitely a detriment for carrying, one reason the LCP .22 has been on my radar for years, but I severely doubt the LCP .22 would be as reliable as the Phoenix is. Amazing to think that a Ruger could be less reliable than a pot metal gun whose roots originate in Raven Arms and the Ring of Fire companies.

 

[doubleh]

I used to have one and found it to be pretty accurate with CCI-SV ammo and it's longer barrel. I couldn't hit the side of a barn with its short barrel. I put part of the blame on the shorter sight radius and more on my progressive glasses. It gave no problems. The multiple safety thing is an easy fix to just use the side safety. The owner's manual states standard velocity ammo only and that is what I stuck to. Yes, I admit to actually reading owner's manuals.

 

[aaaaa]

So I got my Phoenix to the range the other day and it is a lot of fun to shoot. Range report for those interested. I am getting more familiar with this gun and liking it a lot. They should make one in stainless steel in .380 or even .9mm. That would make a nice carry gun. Or course for a carry gun we also would want DA/SA. I like that the barrel if fixed and it is near impossible to put the gun out of battery, also that there is no guide rod to protrude out the friont. But maybe that slide spring setup would not work for the larger calibers.

 

[doubleh]

Be very careful changing barrels if you have the dual barrel option. The recoil spring can launch into orbit and never be found. My first is still in hiding in my garage and it has been there for several years. At least Phoenix offers a 5 pack for little money.

They do offer a shiny model but it is only plated. My LGS has had a used pistol pack like that under glass for a year. It looks new and is priced very close to a new one so no action while I have seen a few new ones not stay on the shelf long at all.

 

[Tallball]

I have two. I bought them for $80-something apiece, used. One works fine and one is a "parts gun". The one that works is surprisingly accurate. The multiple safeties are annoying.

 

[Ritchie]

I have a couple. The slide safety is treated with clear silicone sealer to keep it out of trouble. One glitch was that the trigger bar and disconnector lever can develop a dent where they
hit together, creating a hangup. A little smoothing with a file will cure it. There even may be some pictures of this that I posted years ago.

 

[rust collector]

A deceased friend's collection contained 2 Phoenix pistols which were sold to the local gun store. One was a parts gun. He liked them, but I too was put off by the multiple safeties and idiosyncrasies.

 

[Monac]

I bought a Phoenix HP25 for three reasons: It was inexpensive, I like the way it was styled like the S&W automatics being made at the same time, and the safety/magazine release system. That system is actually copied from a German 25 caliber automatic of the 1920's, either the Haenel or the Zehna, I can't remember which. But the Phoenix adds the hammer block safety on the slide, which allows a person to lower the hammer with complete mechanical safety. It is kind of surprising to me that more single-action external-hammer pistols don't have this, because lowering a hammer with the thumb is something that WILL result in an accidental discharge if enough people do it enough times. That is why practically all double action automatics had decocking mechanisms designed in from the start, because the only way to take advantage of the double action feature was to lower the hammer.

Let's see, the Radom VIS-35 was a single action with a de-cocking lever, the Bernardelli 32/380 pocket auto got a hammer block safety to get in the US after the Gun Control Act of 1968, and an obscure 1911 copy with a DA conversion called the ODI Viking got a big steel hammer block button on the slide after a while and became the ODI Viking Mark 2. Oh, and the French Model 1935 7.65mm Long pistols. There's probably a bunch more, but that's all that come to mind.

PS - Sorry for the thread drift. Moderator, delete this post if desired.

 

[TTv2]

I'm not a fan of .25's, I don't trust the caliber enough to where I would choose to own one over an NAA mini revolver or a .32 Kel Tec or Seecamp. When I do think of .25's the two I'm immediately drawn to are the Beretta 950 and Baby Browning because they're as small as it gets.

However, the Phoenix .25 appeals to me because I cannot think of a potentially better shooting .25 than it because it doesn't try to be the smallest, lightest .25 which means it's going to have a better grip, better sights, and possibly a better trigger. Would I choose it for carry over the lighter Beretta or Browning? Eh... probably not because I wouldn't want to carry those other .25's either, not when a 6 shot .32 revolver weighs the same and packs far more punch.

So, what niche does the Phoenix .25 fit into? All these light rack pistols that Ruger and S&W are doing, like the LCP .22 and the Security .380... for someone who has hand strength issues the low recoil makes sense, but the .380 is too much and the LCP .22 is finicky. For these people the HP25 really is a decent choice because the slide is very easy to rack and it's a pistol that doesn't break the bank.

 

[MedWheeler]

I found mine, purchased in 2009, to be a lot of fun to shoot, and dead-on reliable with good ammunition. I actually enjoy it more than either of my Ruger Mk-II models, which are almost "too easy." You get a real hammer, the slickest trigger on a gun in this price point, and a rear sight that can actually be adjusted, albeit only for windage.

The gun does have like 64 built-in safety functions, both passive and manual, so it would make a poor gun for someone who wanted one that could be brought inot action "right now." The worst of these "features" is the mag-out chamber lock, which means that the chamber cannot be cleared unless a magazine (empty) is in place. To unload the gun requires the following steps:

Engage the lower manual safety (yes, there are two!)

Remove the magazine.

Empty the magazine.

Re-insert the now-empty magazine.

Disengage the lower manual safety.

Rack the slide to clear the chamber and verify it is indeed clear (it will not lock open.)

Engage the lower manual safety.

Remove the magazine.


In comparison, here's how to clear the Jennings J22 or Ruger LCP-II Lite-Rack (two .22LR guns picked for size similarities.):

Remove magazine.

Rack slide to clear chamber and verify it is indeed clear. ;-)

 

[TTv2]

Alright, I'm getting tired of all the focus on the safety features with the Phoenix pistols that are easy to modify, so I'm gonna post the videos of how to fix the magazine release safety and the mag disconnect safety. The firing pin block safety is simple: keep it on fire and it will fire.

The mag disconnect can be defeated by using a shim.

 

[MedWheeler]

TTv2 writes:

Alright, I'm getting tired of all the focus on the safety features with the Phoenix pistols that are easy to modify...

Not focusing on the safety features.. focusing on the design that included them. ;-)

 

[aaaaa]

Alright, I'm getting tired of all the focus on the safety features with the Phoenix pistols that are easy to modify, so I'm gonna post the videos of how to fix the magazine release safety and the mag disconnect safety. The firing pin block safety is simple: keep it on fire and it will fire.

The mag disconnect can be defeated by using a shim.

Just did the mods to my Phoenix. Took maybe 15 minutes. I did as the You Tuber and snipped off the part that goes behind the magazine release (and filed it smooth). But I did not cut the other part that the safety has to slide under. Rather I put a metal shim under it and pushed the shim probably past half way to hold the piece up like it would be up with the magazine in it. What did I use for a shim? I cut a strip out of a .45 ACP case about 10mm long and maybe 4 mm wide.

 

[Oninotaki]

I picked up one of the hp22a deluxe range boxes for about $200 and couldn't be happier with it. I agree with what everyone says above with the following exceptions.

1: I shoot mine almost exclusively with the 5" barrel and extended grip magazine one handed at the range. To me this is the most fun .22 I have for plinking.

2: I found a guy on Etsy that sells shims for it that work in making adjustments to the safeties, and he sells a tool for keeping the recoil spring under control when changing barrels.

3: I found a guy that made nice wood grip panels for the hp22a, so I bought them to classy it up a bit because I was having so much fun on the range with it.

4: I really like that for $200-$275 depending on the market a new shooter could get everything that they need in that deluxe range kit. Cleaning supplies, hearing protection, two magazines, two barrels, and the case has a built in lock. The only thing they are missing is safety glasses.

 

[doubleh]

Just did the mods to my Phoenix. Took maybe 15 minutes. I did as the You Tuber and snipped off the part that goes behind the magazine release (and filed it smooth). But I did not cut the other part that the safety has to slide under. Rather I put a metal shim under it and pushed the shim probably past half way to hold the piece up like it would be up with the magazine in it. What did I use for a shim? I cut a strip out of a .45 ACP case about 10mm long and maybe 4 mm wide.

I used a piece of music wire on mine.

Every time I see the 25 ACP mentioned I remember the story told by a state cop about a guy he'd hauled to the hospital 3 times after he was shot in the chest with a 25. The same person, his wife, shot him each time with the same gun. He lived through each shooting. I believe the couple could have used some marriage counseling.

 

[Targa]

I have the .22lr Phoenix, it is a fun little $100 gun (that is what I payed for mine 8 years ago). The safeties are silly but as it is only a range toy and will never be carried for protection the quirks are irrelevant to me.