pick one of these powders for .40 165 xtreme

[1KPerDay]

Found some HP38 today, first in nearly 2 years. And a pound of WSF. SO which would you start with for plinking/range/competition loads with xtreme 165 plated FPRN?

Red dot
American select
HP38
WSF
Unique
Power Pistol
(blue dot)


I've discussed promo with bds and have loaded a lot of .40 using it before with good results.

 

[ljnowell]

If you wanted full power ammo it would be Power Pistol from that list, hands down.

For just plinking ammo or ammo that doesn't need to be smoking I would use the HP38 from that list. Not my favorite powder but it's the best on that list IMO for that. Meters good, makes good ammo that's not barn burners.

Edit: nothing wrong with Promo/red dot, it's just the hp38/231 meters so much better.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I think just about any of those will work if you had to use them.
I would use Power Pistol, Hp38, or Unique in that order but American Select should work also.
I prefer Power Pistol, I think it's cleaner than HP38 at lower doses.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree, Power Pistol, Unique or HP-38 will all do a good job with that combination...

 

[judgedelta]

WSF does fine. Hodgen site calls for 6.1 to 6.5 grains with a 165 plated. I use the low end in a Glock 23, no problems.

 

[Gtscotty]

I use low end HP-38 loads for 180 gr extreme plated bullets, works great.

 

[Toprudder]

I second the recommendations for Power Pistol. I have not loaded any for 165gr bullets yet, but my plinking load is 6.3gr Power Pistol behind Xtreme 155gr plated, which is well below the max load on Alliant's website. Just over 900fps. Burns clean, accurate, cycles everything I've got. Normal disclaimer, YMMV.

Low charges of Power Pistol in 45acp, now that is another story. Dirty nasty.

 

[rg1]

From your list I've tested Unique, Power Pistol, and Win Super Field with 155 and 165 grain bullets. For some reason WSF at the same velocity as Unique and PP shows a softer recoil. I would definitely try WSF but all 3 I've tested works fine and I'd recommend all 3 of them.

 

[mxjunky78]

5gr of HP-38 is a great load!

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks all

 

[TfflHndn]

Of those listed, I'd use Red Dot or WSF, depending on whether I wanted to hand dip each load (Red Dot) or use a powder measure (WSF).

 

[1KPerDay]

kay, I tried 6.4 Power Pistol, close to the starting charge, and it had similar recoil to WWB and gigantic annoying muzzle flash. functioned fine, accurate enough to hit plates which is all I need.

But the flash and blast are annoying.

Trying unique now. HOWEVER:

the Lee PAD chart says I should use orifice .61 to get 5.6 grains (which by my experience will likely be close to 5.2-5.4 grains... as the chart is always optimistic). In this case, though, the .61 orifice throws 4.9 grains, the .66 orifice (which is supposed to throw 6.0 grains) throws 5.2, and I had to step up to the .71 orifice to get it to throw a 5.4 starting charge. Lee chart says .71 should throw 6.5 grains.

I've never come CLOSE to that much deviation from the chart with any powder I've tried. Most I've had is .6 grain difference between spec and actual. It makes me nervous.

Is "new unique" a lot fluffier/less dense than "old unique"?

 

[LiveLife]

Found some HP38 today, first in nearly 2 years. And a pound of WSF. SO which would you start with for plinking/range/competition loads with xtreme 165 plated FPRN?

One of my match loads was with 165 gr Montana Gold RNFP/JHP and 5.0-5.2 gr W231/HP-38 at 1.125"-1.130" OAL and I practiced with Berry's/Rainier 165/180 gr plated TCFP bullets.

The slower burning WSF needs to be pushed near max for optimal accuracy which produces more recoil than W231/HP-38 loads. I prefer heavier 180 gr bullet with WSF and still use WSF for full-power practice defensive loads using Speer GD/Remington GS 165 gr JHP bullets.

I've discussed promo with bds and have loaded a lot of .40 using it before with good results.

I think as I PMed you before, Red Dot/Promo would work for loading practice/plinking loads if powder availability was limited but you have much better powders on hand for match loads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Is "new unique" a lot fluffier/less dense than "old unique"?

Not according to everything I've read. If that were the case it would render all the older load data useless and dangerous too. No company would chance that.

 

[1KPerDay]

Well I weighed 25 throws and they were all 5.5 after the first couple 5.4s. So I guess It's just the nature of my PAD and my Unique. The WSF was consistently .2 grains lighter than the chart indicated, as expected.

 

[1KPerDay]

5.4 unique. works fine, seems okay needs more evaulation. accurate enough, brass looks fine, feels about the same recoil as WWB maybe a little lighter

6.4 WSF unburned flakes, sharp recoil, not good for my purposes. Functioned, accurate enough, brass looks fine.

I'm probably going to load up a hundred or so with unique and then some red dot and see which I like better... red dot has worked great for me in other "range" .40 loads.

I kinda want to save my HP-38 for .38 special and .380 loads (since it's the only powder I tried that produces acceptable results in .380 with my bullets in my pistol).

 

[Oldgoat03]

Plinkers

I use HP38 for paper punching with all combinations of bullet sizes and types. I have always found a fairly soft load that is accurate and the whole family enjoys shooting.

I load Berrys, Rainier and Extreme in all sizes with great results.

OG03

 

[1KPerDay]

if I had more than a couple pounds of it I'd use it. But I don't, and looks like it will remain unavailable for a long time. I have an adequate amount of Promo and unique so I'm going to use them, since WSF and Power pistol don't do what I want in this case.

 

[1KPerDay]

WARNING: THE BELOW CONTAINS LOADS OUTSIDE OF CURRENT PUBLISHED DATA. NEITHER THE HIGH ROAD FORUMS NOR THE POSTER ASSUMES ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY HARM RESULTING FROM THE USE OF THIS INFORMATION.

Tried accuracy testing (from a rest 15 yards). 5.4 Unique, 4.2 promo, 5.1 HP38, and 8.2 Blue Dot (for fun). All are around the recommended starting loads other than Promo which is a bit lighter and guesstimated/evaluated based on my experience and others'). All functioned. Blue dot, Unique and HP38 loads all felt about the same, which is to say about the same or maybe a tad lighter than WWB. 4.2 Promo noticeably lighter, and hit to a lower POI (right at the top of the front sight; the others were a bit higher other than HP38 which was low). All loads COAL 1.125", Lee FCD, crimp to .421".

Brass cleanest using HP38, though I did notice some unburnt flakes on my arms, but accuracy not superb (all groups were pretty much 3" or so but some had more stringing/clustering). Best group was Unique and Promo. Blue dot was surprisingly adequate. Blue dot loads scorched the case mouths a bit but otherwise no dirtier than Unique. Red dot 2nd cleanest and overall probably the most accurate if I could hold a steady hand and break shots cleanly.

I'm going to make up a batch of unique and a batch of Promo and see if I can tell a difference shooting runs of plates.

thanks for all the advice as always.

 

[LiveLife]

All loads COAL 1.125", Lee FCD, crimp to .421".

Thanks for the range report.

Your results are interesting as I never did a 40S&W plated 165 gr bullet with W231/HP-38 vs Red Dot/Promo load comparison for accuracy (BTW, jacketed Montana Gold bullets produced greater accuracy over plated bullets for me).

Perhaps the humble Promo deserves an accuracy makeover for plated 165/180 gr bullets using longer OAL/COL?

Since longer OAL/COL produced greater accuracy with Berry's plated 180 gr bullet in the Herco thread, how about using longer OAL/COL with the next test loads (like around 1.140"-1.143")? - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9416978#post9416978

Lee FCD

For many that is wondering why the FCD is being used for these plated bullets, I have no problem using FCD for "jacketed sized" bullets and in this case .400" sized plated bullets. Since the diameter of this particular plated bullet is the same size as jacketed bullet, post-sizing concern doesn't apply and the FCD is being properly utilized as a "finishing die/taper crimp die" with carbide insert ensuring "roundness" of the plated bullet for reliable full chambering. If you measure bullets in several places, many plated bullets are out-of-round and many manufacturers "double-strike" (DS) them for greater consistency.

But the real question for 1KPerDay is whether the FCD is being used to seat and crimp in separate steps or being used as a "finishing die" as I almost never experienced chambering issues with plated bullets, even in tighter chambered Lone Wolf barrels?

 

[1KPerDay]

Posted a nice reply only to lose it in the ether...


Anywho... I'd forgotten that the longer COAL worked better with that Herco load. I'll have to try it with the Unique. I really should get a ransom rest... even shooting from a couple of upturned brass buckets the front sight moves around more than I'd like.

 

[LiveLife]

Just wait until you get older and have to wear bifocals/progressives and have arthritis.

Thank goodness I don't have arthritis ... yet!

Is there anything positive for me to look forward to getting older that's shooting/reloading related?

 

[Dudedog]

On the couple of pounds of Unique I have used I noticed varied from the listed VMD of .1092 by a lot. I caculated it out for what I had and got a number closer to .132 when using different disks and averageing thrown charge weights.
with that number a .66 disk is about 5 gr. My .53 disk throws about 4gr, .56 about 4.3. (it varies a bit due to the Unique metering qualties of this powder, prefer Universal clays--none around)

PS
Now that I am getting older my brain protests if I try to do to much math in one day So it took me a while to come up with the above numbers when I did it a while back.
Looks like your batch is running around .125 still not close to the .1029 listed, but closer to my .132 number I got for my batch.
When I first used it I weighed, scratched my head, got out the balance beam scale, weighed some more, more head scratching and siad ok that .1092 VMD number is wayyyyy off.

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks for the info. It's very consistent at 5.5 grains for the .71 orifice. So I assume either the hole was drilled a bit small or the batch of Unique is a bit fluffy, or both. I'll be sure to weigh a few charges of every powder (as always with any powder) and weigh about every 10th or so.

 

[vaalpens]

Perhaps the humble Promo deserves an accuracy makeover for plated 165/180 gr bullets using longer OAL/COL?

Since longer OAL/COL produced greater accuracy with Berry's plated 180 gr bullet in the Herco thread, how about using longer OAL/COL with the next test loads (like around 1.140"-1.143")?

Very interesting thread since I am planning on starting with xtreme 165 gr RNFP bullets when I start my first load. At the moment I am still preparing and have deconstructed a few rounds from Freedom Munitions which owns/use Xtreme bullets. I have seated these bullets to start working on a COL I can start with for my SIG P229 40. What I have found is that I get a good plunk test at 1.1580COL but was only happy with how the rounds fitted in the magazine at around 1.1500 COL. At 1.15 COL the rounds cycled through the gun without any setback. Looks like I should be able to work on a COL from 1.125 to a max of 1.15. Only live testing will show how close I can get to the 1.15 max. The Freedom Munitions remanufactured rounds have a COL of around 1.12.