New Orleans Police to Return Seized Guns

[Ovid]

Frederick Thomas, from New Orleans, leaves New Orleans Police with his semi-automatic pistol that was confiscated in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans on Monday April 17, 2006. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)


New Orleans Police to Return Seized Guns

By MARY FOSTER, Associated Press Writer Wed Apr 19, 7:33 PM ET

NEW ORLEANS - Under pressure from the National Rifle Association, police this week began returning guns confiscated after Hurricane Katrina.
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The police department is making the guns available three days a week. At the close of the second day Wednesday, police said only 17 of about 700 weapons had been returned.

Police and soldiers removed guns from houses after the storm flooded the city, and they confiscated guns from some evacuees.

The NRA and other groups sued the city, saying it took away people's means of protection amid the lawlessness that gripped New Orleans.

"Natural disasters may destroy great cities, but they do not destroy civil rights," said Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, which joined the NRA in the lawsuit.

The lawsuit was dropped after the city agreed to return the guns.

Some owners complained it was difficult to get them back. Gun owners must bring a bill of sale or an affidavit with the weapon's serial number. Police also are running criminal background checks on those claiming weapons.

Some gun owners found the weapons were evidence in a crime and not eligible for release. Others did not have the proper paperwork.

Percy Taplet, 73, said the National Guard and state police confiscated his shotgun when they arrived to tell him to leave his house. When he tried to get his gun back this week, police told him he would have to contact state police.

"I won't ever see that gun again, believe me," Taplet said. "It's gone like everything else in that storm."

Police Superintendent Warren Riley said police had legitimate reasons for confiscating weapons.

"We took guns that were stolen that were stashed in alleyways. If we went into an abandoned house and a gun was there, absolutely we took the weapons," he said. "Obviously there were looters out there. We didn't want some burglar or looter to have an opportunity to arm themselves."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060419/ap_on_re_us/katrina_confiscated_guns

 

[ball3006]

If the NO cops had a....

legitimate reason for confiscating guns from citizens, why did they lose in court??????? Seems like NO swapped one liberal chief for another.........chris3

edit for spelling

 

[Deavis]

How many people keep a bill of sale for their guns? Unless youa re anal, they get lost along with receipts for everything else (for normal people). In addition, FTF transfers rarely involve a receipt. I've got all my serials stored in the safe and on the computer, but what if they lost those in the flood?

My real question, and maybe a LEO can answer this, if they seized the weapon from a person then they should (must?) have given the person a receipt, right? In which case, the police should have a copy of that receipt as well. Isn't that standard procedure for preoprty seizure?

 

[kel]

They didn't follow standard procedure

That's what all the fuss is about. It was illegal... Why is no one serving jail time!

 

[TheEgg]

Police Superintendent Warren Riley said police had legitimate reasons for confiscating weapons.

Of course they had a REASON. But 'legitimate'?

But, not to worry, everyone should be happy. The NRA can declare victory, and the cops have set things up so that most of those guns will never get back to their owners. Hey, a win-win situation right?

IMNSHO -- They were stolen to begin with, they are still stolen property, and the police stole them.

The police will face no penalty. What lesson are the police learning?

That they can steal guns from citizens with impunity. They might have to give some of them back later - maybe.

What a wonderful situation.

 

[Manedwolf]

Bill of sale?! Who keeps those especially for old, old guns?

Not to mention that guns were taken from people with heavily damaged houses who had LOST all their papers to floods.

What happens if all your paperwork was soaked and ruined?

 

[Chipperman]

There needs to be another lawsuit filed.

The NOPD are making very deliberate moves to complicate the process. They know most of the people will have no way of proving ownership, and will never be able to regain their property.

 

[foghornl]

I have bills of sale (bill of sales??) for almost all my shootin' irons, except for 2 of them.

I do have model/serial/description on every single one, stored in 3 seperate locations. Also have CD's with pix of each one. Each photo has a readable hand-made card with model/serial/description visible in the photo.

Photo in the first post looks like Mr. Thomas is missing the magazine, although the mag may be in one of his pockets. From the way this whole thing has come down, from the theft of citizens firearms, denial that those arms were stolen under "Color Of Law" to the hassles of trying to get them back, I wouldn't be too surprised if the .guv was going to make people retreive the mags seperately.

Not to "foment violence or insurrection", but there are soooo many involved in the Katrina Disaster that just need to be 'taken out to the woodshed' and pounded into a bloody pulp.

Or as I have heard "...Boy, we gonna stomp you into a mud puddle 'n' kick the water out..."

 

[Molon Labe]

Who confiscated them? I thought LEOs would never follow unlawful orders.

 

[1911JMB]

A family friend of mine is a professional animal relocator and exterminator. His .22 pistol was stolen, then used in a crime. The police recovered it, and told him that he would get it back after the trial. 3 months after the trial, they still hadn't returned it. He informed them that if he didn't get his pistol back in 24 hours, he would sue for the cost of replacement, and lost wages because they had taken a tool he needed to make a living. They got it back to him, but it took them a few hours. He said it was obvious that some jerk cop had taken it from the evidence room and brought it home thinking it was forgotten about.

I doubt that the situation was the same in New Orleans, but if more people would have sued the bajesus out of the police department, those guns would have been returned much more quickly.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

?Good news om April 19th? When did that happen?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Bill of Sale?

The closest thing I have to a Bill of Sale is title to my car.
I have no BoS on guns, TV, PC, appliances, telescope;
if it does not need a deed or title, no one I know keeps
Bills of Sale on personal property. When did that become
a requirement?

 

[molonlabe]

They were in violation not only for taking the firearms but not issuing reciepts. That was planned. They never intended to return them.

 

[Standing Wolf]

"We took guns that were stolen that were stashed in alleyways. If we went into an abandoned house and a gun was there, absolutely we took the weapons," he said. "Obviously there were looters out there. We didn't want some burglar or looter to have an opportunity to arm themselves."

Goebbels would be so proud!

 

[1911JMB]

If the cops want proof of ownership, this is one case where 4473's can be used for a good purpose.

 

[mp510]

I don't blame them for wanting to identify the owner to the gun.
Example: The police took in 12 3rd. Generation Glock 17's in stock condition. Wouldn't you want your pistol back, not somebody elses?

Obviously, you should be able to attempt to claim your weapon with other information, if it IDs the gun.

Unfortunately, I feel my hypothesis doesn't describe the real situation.

 

[Erebus]

The closest thing I have to a Bill of Sale is title to my car.
I have no BoS on guns, TV, PC, appliances, telescope;
if it does not need a deed or title, no one I know keeps
Bills of Sale on personal property. When did that become
a requirement?

Get a datestamping film camera, not digital (you want to have negotives) if you have to, get a disposable camera and keep the envelope the photos are returned by the store in and the receipt for the developing, they're dated and your name is on the envelope. Take photographs of your guns and make sure the S/N is visible in the photograph. In fact take photographs of all the rooms in your house. Make sure all appliances electronics and valuable items are in the photos. Photograph jewlery, furniture, collectables. Basically photograph everything you own. Take photographs of any custom equipment in/on your car if there is any. If you have a lawn tractor in your shed take photos of EVERYTHING. Then put the photos, negotives, envelope and receipt in a safedeposit box so that a house fire can't destroy them. Insurance companies will accept this as proof that you owned the items if there is a fire, robbery, flood, etc. Get a couple friends together and split the cost of the safe deposit box if you have to. It's also a good idea once you get the photos developed to write the M/Ns and S/Ns of things in the photos on the back of the photos.

And another thing. Those LEOs should have been giving people receipts for those guns.

Frederick Thomas is my hero of the day!!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Police Superintendent Warren Riley said police had legitimate reasons for confiscating weapons.

"We took guns that were stolen that were stashed in alleyways. If we went into an abandoned house and a gun was there, absolutely we took the weapons," he said. "Obviously there were looters out there. We didn't want some burglar or looter to have an opportunity to arm themselves."

This begs the question -- if a house was unoccupied and no crime had been reported at that address ... why were police in the structure at all? That's called "illegal entry." Anything they took while illegally in the structure raises the ante to "burglary."

Last I knew, burglary was a felony offense.

 

[rangermonroe]

This begs the question -- if a house was unoccupied and no crime had been reported at that address ... why were police in the structure at all? That's called "illegal entry." Anything they took while illegally in the structure raises the ante to "burglary."

In times of diaster, private property will be "searched" for victims. I do not believe that they were bashing in doors of undamaged houses that were high, dry and secure.

If during that search, firearms were discovered, I believe that it is the duty of LEO to secure said arms, and remove them from the now unsecure location.

All that should be necessary for the return of that secured property would be a good description and the address from whence it came.

Of course, the officers kept copious notes of the homes from which they were removing weapons.

 

[748]

Start a trust.
Put your guns in it.
Confiscating guns from citizens is easy, as shown in the aftermath.
Confiscating guns from from a trust is like trying to confiscate guns form a security company or confiscating them form say the Colt plant. Or any other corporation.
And if they did confiscate guns form a trust that would make it easy to hit them with a law suite. At that point they would be be asking for it.

 

[Lupinus]

"We took guns that were stolen that were stashed in alleyways. If we went into an abandoned house and a gun was there, absolutely we took the weapons," he said. "Obviously there were looters out there. We didn't want some burglar or looter to have an opportunity to arm themselves."

Ahem. Guns that were just laying around? Tell that to the little old lady that got knocked to the ground by a jbt following orders from you idiot. Tell that to everyone else you stole guns from. That quote is the dumbist thing I've heard all day....and it was a tne hour sale at work I've heard some stupidity today I really have.

the cops want proof of ownership, this is one case where 4473's can be used for a good purpose.

Where they going to get those? Gun shops that were flooded? How about people who got them privatly?

Most of these people will never see their guns agian plain and simple. This is a victory on paper only and the NRA and other orgs should continue the lawsuit untill every single person that comes foreward has their stolen property returned to them.

 

[mountainclmbr]

These people committed felonies. They should be run through the standard LA process. It matters not a bit that they were cops when committing felonies. It should have severe consequences during sentencing due to the damage they caused citizens in their official capacity. They abused their power and they knew better. They should be high-profile examples of what happens when the servants abuse the people who pay their salaries. Public dunking in sewage would suit me. Personally, I would dunk them for a very long time. I am sure Castro would applaud their actions, but I am disgusted.

 

[DrDeFab]

Who confiscated them? I thought LEOs would never follow unlawful orders.

Right: because LEOs, NG troops, and other members of hierarchical organizations are immune to the "obedience to authority" effect studied by Milgram and others.

 

[Ovid]

Has there been any outrage from the mainstream media about this whole thing??
Have any police, or high ranking politicians (publicly) spoke up?

 

[xd9fan]

To their credit, the NRA seems to be on this like stink on $&%&. They were the ones that filed the lawsuit in Federal Court. And they are watching this PD's process closely. Wayne is on a march with what happened. His speech at CPAC was very good. (Remember New Orleans slogan).

The burdon of proof should not be on the citizen to prove to the police which gun is theirs. The cops are at fault....they should waste man-power and time courting the public and rebuilding trust.....what a joke.

The PD, the Chief and the major should be criminally charged....and the very least sued. Every damn one of them!! Their "legitimate" reason for this was self-protection. Who cares what happens to the people you serve but lets protect our own asses in the time of chaos and take all the guns away.

I'm amazed someone did not die over this. What a stupid, irresponsible and dangerous process to tell your officers to do.


Correct me if I'm wrong but is Mr. Thomas carrying a Ruger P345 ????