Pistol to learn accuracy with

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I would stay away from 1911s for now.
The Glock trigger will magnify any flaws in your trigger pull, which is arguably the most important. If you can shoot really well with a Glock, you'll shoot most other autos well. If you shoot well with a 1911, you may shoot terribly with striker-fired and DAO guns.
 
I used to use a Mark III when I went shooting with my dad, and I hated it. Something about the feel of it in my hand just made me loath the gun. Also this may be a small thing, but I really dislike those magazines, the metal tab you have to pull down bugged me.
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You're talking about the standard MK II. The MKII 22/45 has controls and mag release that mirror a 1911. Hence the 22/45 designation.

Also, 25yards is WAY too long a distance to expect a novice handgun shooter to hit anything reliably with a centerfire handgun. Try the aim small miss small philosophy for a while and see how that treats you.

You really should be practicing at distances of less than 25 feet. Focus on creating consistent groups. Once the groups are consistent, focus on shrinking their diameter. When the diameter becomes less than fist sized, speed up your strings of fire.

Your intermediate goal should be the ability to draw and fire a fist sized group at 7-10 yds in less than 5 seconds. Once you have this down, the next step is to increase speed incrementally while maintaining group size.

Get some quality instruction and things will progress much more smoothly and rapidly for you.
Learn the 4 count draw stroke and practice with an EMPTY gun for many repetitions. Use the same EMPTY GUN and get regular dry-fire practice with it. This will make you a better and safer shooter.


I really like my G19 and I am accurate with it. However, different strokes for different folks and all that. It may work for you, it may not.
But if you do not intend to reload ammo, and you make less than a six figure salary, you need to get a .22 pistol. That is the only way you will get enough practice to become proficient, let alone competitive. Also handgun shooting is a very perishable skill, it requires frequent practice to stay proficient once the fundamentals are mastered.

Good luck
JH
 
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I am planning to start reloading down the road, so I'm going to be saving all the centerfire brass I can. 7-10 yards seems really really close, but maybe thats because i'm used to rifles? I was planning to get a full set of the dummy snap-caps for practicing with the pistol when I cant make it to the range. As it is I get out there about once every three weeks, which is less than I'd like. I'm going to start setting aside moeny in my gun-fund for a G19 and the 22lr conversion kit so I can practice with the 22lr.
 
Colt Service Model Ace if you can find one for a reasonable price.
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the original "ace conversion" used a floating breech block and was inherently inaccurate as well as producing significant recoil .

some good information here

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=476377

I'm not sold on the 1911's saftey after looking into the gun, something about the hammer having to be cocked just seems unsafe to me, it may not be but i guess it's one of those mental things.
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For some I can see and understand the reservations . I have been lectured once or twice by LEO half my age about the inherent unsafe nature of condition one carry but in each case I was able to present a similar question about the inherent unsafe nature of the Glock the officer was carrying that had NO manual safety . In each case the officer admitted that I had a point and let it go at that . In all three of my concealed carry holsters the retention strap passes between the hammer and the rear of the slide for a little more piece of mind not only for me but for a possible encounter with a LEO . The thumb break on my duty/service holster not only has the retention strap between the rear of the slide and hammer but conceals quite well the fact that the hammer is cocked .

The single action nature of condition one carry allows the user to draw and "wipe" the the safety with a thumb in one motion placing the weapon in action . All subsequent shots are accomplished with the same trigger action . The relatively short trigger pull also lends itself to smaller hands .

Please take the time to investigate the Glock safety trigger system as well as a fair representation of "crunch-n-tickers" (Double Action first shot and Single Action for following shots) and DA only systems . Don't just read though . get to a range that rents and try them all . The most important thing here is be comfortable AND safe as well as proficient with your eventual choice .

I have a dedicated .22 conversion in a SER. 70 identical to my daily carry weapon . I was just fortunate to come across a somewhat battered pistol that serves a purpose for training , surprisingly good accuracy for medium range varmints and just great fun plinking . Even if I didn't have the spare chassis the conversion can and has been installed on my every day SER. 70 with the same results , it just looks better .

Barring all that I have owned a number of Hi-Standard .22 auto pistols in several configurations and most are more accurate than I am . The 6" Bull barrel with adjustable sights will hold to a .75" group or less with subsonic target ammunition of any description and somewhat better with Tenex Ultimate or Eley Match ammunition .
My personal best is about a .85" group with an occasional day of one ragged hole you could cover with a nickel . More than good enough to develop a fine touch I'd say .
 
The Glock trigger will magnify any flaws in your trigger pull, which is arguably the most important. If you can shoot really well with a Glock, you'll shoot most other autos well. If you shoot well with a 1911, you may shoot terribly with striker-fired and DAO guns.
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I'll admit that has been my experience with the Glock . With no ill will toward the Glock I just never could wrap my mind or trigger finger around one . I can can go from my 1911 or even my much beloved N frames fired DA even and pick up a Glock and have trouble finding paper let alone black . I'm not so set in my ways that I haven't tried to master th Glock and it's trigger . I even own one now . I just have to admit to some sort of personal block possibly created by near 40 years of "O" frame due diligence . I've been the object no small amount of jokes because of this failing . Just thought I'd share :D

~kop
 
if you dont feel comfortable with the 1911 cond.1, i would go for the sa/da like a sig or beretta. i felt like you at first with the 1911 safty but now i prefer it my last 2 out of 3 handguns have been 1911's. my carry is a kimber pro carry & it is also my favorite handgun to shoot. now i want a 1911 in 9mm. i dont shoot my other semi autos verry much i just love a good quality 1911.
 
Nearly everything sold these days is a descent (as far as accuracy) shooter and yes, there are some opinionated exceptions. You stated however that you wanted a pistol that can teach you accuracy. As we do not learn in that manner you must teach yourself accuracy then transfer that knowledge to the pistol.

The .22 is a great training assistant when it comes to that and can be a "life partner" rather than a stepping stone to "bigger" and "better". If total cost is a factor I suggest this: a number of manufacturers have flooded the pellet gun market with replicas of their most popular models which can be had for under $50. These will allow you to increase your practice, albeit with less refined triggers and barrels and sights and...you get the picture, while you train yourself without the BANG in your ears and wallet. Heck, buy a real pistol the same day, take them both home, shoot the CO2 version in your basement half an hour a day and dry practice with the real thing half an hour a day for trigger feel.

I do suggest you rent a few pistols at a range if possible before making an expensive decision. I had not touched a Glock trigger since the early '90s till I visited my gunsmith Friday night. His G22 was pure hell for me and I remembered all over why I didn't much care for the otherwise fine gun. On the other hand he was absolutely amazed by what I had done to the stock trigger on my S&W M&P 40 with $50 in parts and a little internet browsing. (I modified the factory parts then bought aftermarket and preferred the latter just a tad or it would have cost me nothing).

There are, as I said, many fine firearms that would translate well into competition/carry weapons down the line and you owe it to yourself to turn over a few stones before plunking down your hard earned.
Best of luck with your search.
 
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I do so apologize for my horrific grammar Mr. Korzybski, as you say: "A map is not the territory" and is not a true representation of my writing ability. I am assuming your identity of course, or are you a plagiarist? Certainly with your lingual ability you would not have made such a horrid mistake.

What I write is intended to help. While it may fail more often than not it's intent is true to purpose. I will therefore accept your constructive criticism by attempting, at length, to structure my words within their propper paragraphs.

This is why THR asks it's members to refrain from personal attacks. Let's just let it go.
 
Well in any case, grammar, spelling, and what-not aside. I've found a local range that rents several glocks, a few 1911's as well as a smattering of other weapons. I'll probably end up dropping $100 in range rentals and ammo to see what feels the best for me and go with that. Thanks for the help from everyone.
 
It sounds to me like you already had your mind made up.....The advice about a 22 lr is solid. Buying a G19 and a 22 lr conversion kit isn't that great of an idea. The kit costs just as much as a dedicated 22 pistol. Do yourself a favor and listen to the hundreds of years (probably) of combined experience.

If you are dead set on the G19 learning to properly use a Glock trigger will help. Don't release the trigger all the way in between shots. You need to ease the trigger forward just enough to hear it "click" after each shot. Then you can shoot the next round. That little tidbit makes shooting a Glock so much easier.

If you want to be really discouraged keep shooting at 25 yards. That's a pretty long shot for a pistol. You need to start out closer and slowly work your way out. Rome wasn't built in a day. :rolleyes:
 
Good to hear it Kederian. It's nice to see you're exercising patience by trying before you buy.

I hope I've not given the impression that Glocks should be avoided, I simply lack experience with a properly adjusted one. I'm sure by reputation, aftermarket support and handling a number that they can be modified to suit a wide variety of shooters. Choosing a pistol is your right and, if you are confident in it's ability, can give you a big psychological advantage.

A final note and there's sure to be disagreement is that you can over-practice. How you practice makes a difference. Dry practice drilling, if done properly, will reinforce technique free of charge while allowing you to unlearn any bad habbits. Learning not to flinch or tighten your grip during trigger pull are just two that are easily fixed when you practice without the recoil. Practice does not make perfect, it simply makes permanent.
 
As a side note, the range I'm going to goto has several range officers that will instruct you on proper pistol technique and help you improve your accuracy. So I'm going to see if some personal instruction will help me out. But as I said, it was about 6-8 years since I last fired a pistol so I just might need to put some rounds down range to get back into the groove so-to-speak.
 
If you are dead set on the G19 learning to properly use a Glock trigger will help. Don't release the trigger all the way in between shots. You need to ease the trigger forward just enough to hear it "click" after each shot. Then you can shoot the next round. That little tidbit makes shooting a Glock so much easier.
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This is commonly referred to as "riding the sear" and it is good advice.
 
Skylerbone, nobody intends to offend when they recommend the use of paragraphs or breaks and there is no reason to take it personally. It is simply a courtesy to the other readers.

Honestly, I frequently skip long posts without paragraphs and I'm a relatively young man with only slightly crappy vision. Some of the old farts with trifocals get downright ornery when people do that.:evil: Have a little sympathy for the optically challenged.:D
 
this is largely a matter of opinion.

IMHO

If you want to learn to shoot a 22LR with extreme accuracy then buy one and start shooting. Same goes for any caliber.

IMHO the 22LR is fun and definitely can teach a new (or renewed) pistol shooter about pistol marksmanship. The 22/45 is my favorite because the grip angle and controls are very similar to my 1911's.

The 1911 has a great trigger that can be customized to the way you like it. Striker pistols are fun to shoot, easy to shoot, but I (me personally) do NOT like the trigger break on them. Any of them, it always feels like DA to me and I don't like DA. I like the break on Sig's and Beretta's more than I do Glocks but not as much as a 1911.

Good luck!
 
So far this is what i'm looking at trying out:
GLOCK 17- 9mm
GLOCK 19- 9mm
SIG ARMS P239- 9mm
BERETTA 92FS VERTEC- 9mm
SPRINGFILED ARMORY XD - 9mm
SMITH & WESON M&P - 9mm
HECKLER & KOCH USP SD - 9mm
and
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 1911- .45 Cal.

I'm not sure about the .45, but I'll give it a chance.
 
May as well add FN to the list, specifically the FN-P9 and FN-X9. Both are SA/DA, well made and rather good looking to boot.

Sorry about my above ranting, I just don't enjoy people adding nothing to the conversation while checking me (ever so lightly) in the ribs. Now I too am guilty of the same and do sincerely apologize to 9 for my overly sensitive reply. Thank you M. C. For your viewpoint as it was the furthest thing from my mind. I have since edited the post for increased viewability.
 
You'll be missing out on some nice shooting guns if you don't add some hammer fired DA/SA guns to that list to try out. Specifically any of the CZ's and Sigs. Another nice polymer hammer style DA/SA is the STI GP6.
 
unfortuantly this is the long list of weapons available for rental at the range
GLOCK 17- 9mm

GLOCK 19- 9mm

GLOCK 23- .40 Cal.

GLOCK 21- 45 ACP

SIG ARMS P239- 9mm

SIG ARMS P229- .40 Cal.

SIG ARMS P220 - .45 ACP.

SIG ARMS MOSQUITO - 22LR

BERETTA 92FS VERTEC- 9mm

BERRETTA 84F - .380 ACP

TAURUS PT940- .40 Cal.

SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 1911- .45 Cal.

SPRINGFILED ARMORY XD - 9mm

COLT 1911- .45 Cal.

SMITH & WESON M&P - 9mm

RUGER MARK II- .22Cal.

HECKLER & KOCH USP SD - 9mm

If there are any in that list that I should add let me know, but I thought I grabbed a fairly wide sample.
 
Now I too am guilty of the same and do sincerely apologize to 9 for my overly sensitive reply.
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we're all good...my post wasn't meant as an attack, small fonts in large blocks are just difficult to track

i could tell it looked like good information, but it's format made for difficult reading. i wouldn't want folks to skip it just because of that
 
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