Pistol to rifle - defensive use - platform suggestions from a reloader's perspective?

[hardheart]

My answer is purposely short.

Read tests on chosen calibers going through 4 sheets of plain 1/2 sheet rock.

If you are like me, the results may not be what you expect. The ar fragmented much sooner than expected and the 9mm went much further than expected. Buckshot seemed to go and go and go...

Lots to consider and the choice is yours. Enjoy your educational road and post what you decide.

I have not chosen yet, so no preference or recommendation given.

Also, some tests included a target in front of drywall. One showed a 147 gr 9mm defensive jhp passing through all 4 sheets after blasting through a hunk of beef. The 223 round only went through 2 sheets in the same test.

Always expect to miss. Police shootings on average are at 8 feet and they have a 40% hit rate. Nobody seems to want to stand still and get shot.

 

[Bfh_auto]

The 'what's on hand' concept is well served by my EDC 1911's or compact 9. Or full sized 9 at the nightstand...

Good suggestions re: pistol caliber carbines! It's been so long since I'd read about them I'd totally forgotten that option. And I am SET for components, both 9 & 45, no matter how much plinking I do.

Assuming benchrest, roughly what sort of additional accuracy range might be expected of a carbine over say a full size pistol (in 9)? Like grouping at 100 instead of 50? (generally sorta kinda, lol)

A Ruger pcc on your preferred chambering would be a great fit. A shake awake dot sight gives about clay pigeon sized accuracy at 100 yards.
I like a shotgun because I grew up bird hunting. I can handle one much better than an AR. They have good availability for ammo. Any #5 hunting load or smaller numerically shot size will destroy something that isn't wearing body armor inside 15 yards.
But recoil is higher. Round capacity is down. Ammo is heavier. ETC.

 

[Jim Watson]

Random thoughts.
A long gun gains user accuracy vs a pistol.

I am not impressed by the reliability of 9mm ARs vs .223 ARs. I concede that the PCCs I see are in USPSA and IDPA competition where people tinker with gun and ammo for easy shooting. Maybe you can select for reliability. A friend's Ruger seems good. But he says he has his AR fixed now and Army and Highpower experience have him well acquainted with its operation.

Reloads for defense seems strange in normal times. I have one gun that I have developed carry loads for and I am wondering if they offer much real advantage.
In your case, learning .223 on the job in a period of shortages does not seem wise.

 

[jmorris]

The drywall/penetration comments remind me of a story I don't think I have ever told. I do know for a fact a full house 357 magnum 158gn jhp will go through 1 oscillating fan, two sheets of dry wall (always wondered if also a 2x4's width) and into a shoe box full of junk in my sister's room on the dresser against said wall. That's it, it's not an 88 magnum that shoots through schools.

I also know that toothpaste will work as a filler one can paint over, so no one ever knows you did it. Well, at least if no one is home when the shot is fired...

Its amazing I made it out of childhood but it was an exciting ride.

 

[entropy]

I've been handloading for my pistols (9 & 45) for some years, though not much in the last several years. Doing both on a Hornady L&L, though I've got a Lee single stage mothballed on the shelf. At my peak, I'd do about 1K rounds/month of combined calibers. Only rifle I own is a .22 I've had since as a kid.

Background: I've never had much desire for a defensive rifle, thinking a concealed carry is of far more practical value. But I'm considering adding a rifle for home defense. Before reloading I'd have gone to a shotgun for that purpose, but with firsthand experience in the cost savings of handloading for pistol, and subsequent experience gained of many 1000's of rounds sent downrange, I'm wondering if there might be logic in going to a rifle instead of a shotgun.

Factors: I'm not looking to shoot competitively with rifle like I did with pistol (just IDPA, so 'competitively' is perhaps too strong a word, lol), so accuracy isn't an issue. But I do appreciate the 'stand-off' aspect of a long gun. I don't hunt. Reloading is soothing, but carving out time is not easy. I do really like the 'comfort factor' of having many 1000's of rounds of components at hand, and never thinking about ammo shortages. I wouldn't stockpile anywhere near that amount of components for rifle however. Thinking rifle over shotgun as I already own a press I could set up of low runs of one caliber & leave set.

Question: Do you think my base logic is good, ie, rifle over shotgun, and doing very low volume reloads? If that is sound, what platform would you suggest, given my criteria? AR15, 30-30, etc. I'd say factor would be primarily ease of reloading and platform's dependability for eating handloads vs factory. Or is shotgun reloading an easier route, and economically advantageous?

Thanks in advance!

It's the wrong time to get into it, as components are a bit scarce for rifle and pistol at this point, though I have had no problem getting Trap load components, (which is not economically advantageous, but I can control what I shoot, so it's worth it to me) so that's what I'm loading currently, as well as the .30-30 I squirreled away compenents for this summer.

There's a Marlin Camp 9 at my LGS, only $999. 9mm Chargers are made of unobtanium, unless you want to take a chance on CDNN's 'refurbs'. My LGS has one CZ Scorpion 9, The first of the 4 numbers was a 2, that's all I saw.

I'd say you're way late to the dance, buy a cheap shotgun, some buckshot if you can find it, or Coyote loads or even Goose loads if you have to, then worry about a rifle when the crazyness has subsided. Then get an AR, and learn to load for it.

 

[mdi]

My experience with house penetration was quite eye opening. I was working on a Puma 44 magnum w/20" barrel with feeding issues. Like a total dumb a$$ I put a live round in the magazine (240 cast RNFP over a mid load of Blue Dot) and worked the lever. The gun was laying on my padded bench and when I closed the action it fired. The bullet went 6', through a 3/4" plywood wall with 1" foil wrapped insulation, through aluminum siding. The bullet then traveled 4', and went through more aluminum siding, 1/2" plywood, insulation, 1/4" paneling, three cotton shirts, a hollow closet door, through the solid edge of a bathroom door, through 2 sheets of dry wall, through a decorative screen (1/4" panel), traveled 8', through a 1/2" wooden plaque, through another 1/2" dry wall, and embedded in a 2x4 stud, about 2" deep. Not a "hot" load, not a bullet noted for deep penetration, not a high speed jacketed, pointed cartridge. Yes, a very stupid mistake. It traveled 3/4 of the way through walls, etc, of a 60' house and had the bullet not been stopped by the 2x4 it probably would have gone through another wall out of the house and who knows how far?

In my home I have kept 2 HD guns/rounds; a 38 Special loaded with cast DEWC over max. (not +P) loads of W231 and 124 gr. JHPs over mid loads of Unique, and I think even these would have a good chance of leaving my house and possibly doing damage elsewhere, even with much less hard penetration than a 60 gr 5.56 FMJ load...

 

[Jim Watson]

Well, there was the story a number of years ago about the .308 fired when taken from a car. The bullet went through three frame houses before hitting a brick chimney.

You might rely on trick bullets but Corbon seems to be selling only leftover Glasers in a few calibers; Magsafe is either sold out or out of production, and Extreme bullets made out of Nytrillium are just weird.

 

[LiveLife]

been handloading for my pistols (9 & 45) for some years ... defensive rifle ... wondering if there might be logic in going to a rifle instead of a shotgun.

Question: Do you think my base logic is good, ie, rifle over shotgun, and doing very low volume reloads? If that is sound, what platform would you suggest, given my criteria? AR15, 30-30, etc. I'd say factor would be primarily ease of reloading and platform's dependability for eating handloads vs factory.

During the "Great Component Shortage" of 2008-2013 when 22LR price went up to $5/50+, essentially my cost of reloading 9mm with bulk plated/jacketed bullets, family migrated to 9mm carbines.

At that time, we lived in high crime metropolitan city where home invasion by multiple armed gang bangers were common (several would kick the back door down with posting of lookouts at end of the street) and we switched from pistol/shotgun to ARs with 30 round magazines and pistols as back up.

We moved to a rural area with low crime rate for retirement but kept the 9mm carbines and added more by using EndoMag to convert .223/5.56 ARs to use with 9mm uppers. Since you shoot 45ACP, you could even consider Just Right carbine with 9mm/40S&W/45ACP barrel conversions that use Glock or 1911 magazines.

When price of 22LR fell to $15-$20/500 shipped, We got CMMG 22LR conversion kits for our ARs to plink and run defensive drills using same manual of arms but 9mm carbines remain our primary defensive weapons as they can deliver near .357 Mag performance with 30 round magazine capacity with ease of shooting that far surpass limited capacity shotgun/pistols.

And when 9mm components are bought in larger bulk capacity, you can reduce reloading cost down to around $6-$7/50 rounds which allows for more practice/training.

Well, there was the story a number of years ago about the .308 fired when taken from a car. The bullet went through three frame houses before hitting a brick chimney.

Using 9mm JHP is another consideration for over penetration issue.

Over the decades, I bought bulk Speer Gold Dot HP and Remington Golden Saber JHP bullets with WSF (Now changed to BE-86 for higher velocities) to reload duplicate practice rounds to compliment factory ammunition I used but during current component shortage, I would not even mind using RMR JHP.

RMR 115 gr JHP is used by Minuteman Ammunition for their 9mm +P 115 gr JHP (1275 fps) ammunition showing excellent expansion in the ballistic gelatin and pork rib test video - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-match-ammunition.854750/page-3#post-11213738

 

[Trashyshoots]

I would go with a 9mm carbine of your choice, but brother, good luck getting one.