carbine85
Member
So does anyone know anything about these? That's the OPs question. I like the idea of an American made AK.
Pitbull AK-47 - American made - anyone have any experience with them?
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Rob G
Member
I think the most accurate answer is "No." It looks a lot like an IO product but it's hard to say.
So do I but to the best of my knowledge there aren't any 100% American made AKs. Foreign parts kits are far too easy and cheap for an American company to 100% completely fabricate their own AK. That having been said you should check out these guys:
http://www.xtrememachining.biz/products_ak.html
It's a partially American made AK and the work is really high quality. My local gun store had a few for around $650 and honestly at that price point it's a really nice rifle.
BIGBANG
Member
That has to be an IO ak, It looks just like mine, and mine claims the same match grade barrel with 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards. same furniture and everything.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154730&thumb=1&d=1323832426
and It does shoot good but 1-2 moa is pushing it. maybe a better shooter could do it, I'm right at around 4 moa trying to get better.
p.s. I got mine for $350 out the door, seems a lil high to me.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154730&thumb=1&d=1323832426
and It does shoot good but 1-2 moa is pushing it. maybe a better shooter could do it, I'm right at around 4 moa trying to get better.
p.s. I got mine for $350 out the door, seems a lil high to me.
InkEd
Member
I love my pitbull and my AK. They have nothing to do with each other though.
I guess it's no different than using any other animal name (python, mustang, redhawk, SAIGA, etc) but the unfortunate (especially for the animals) affiliation with gang culture really turns me off to products that use the name/imagery of a TRULY wonderful and American breed of dog, in order to appeal to wannabe tough guys.
The rifle could be decent but it looks like junk with that furniture. Also, I doubt that it is nearly as well made as an SGL-21 which you can get for $200 more.
I guess it's no different than using any other animal name (python, mustang, redhawk, SAIGA, etc) but the unfortunate (especially for the animals) affiliation with gang culture really turns me off to products that use the name/imagery of a TRULY wonderful and American breed of dog, in order to appeal to wannabe tough guys.
The rifle could be decent but it looks like junk with that furniture. Also, I doubt that it is nearly as well made as an SGL-21 which you can get for $200 more.
RobGR
Member
Just ugly and almost pathetic. The barrel probably isn't even chrome lined......
I guess a Robinson XCR would be considered a worthy American version of an AK, but pricey. Surprising an American company cannot produce a 100% USA MADE AK variant, like Israels or South Africa's Galils. Wonder if it's related to licensing fees/issues. I guess, why would they, when Century only pays $10 for each WASR they import and then mark it up accordingly. Then we have our Saiga conversions from Arsenal with a solid mark up with out having to worry about the machinery for stamped or milled receivers and barrels. I wonder what Arsenal pays for each "sporter" Saiga?
I guess a Robinson XCR would be considered a worthy American version of an AK, but pricey. Surprising an American company cannot produce a 100% USA MADE AK variant, like Israels or South Africa's Galils. Wonder if it's related to licensing fees/issues. I guess, why would they, when Century only pays $10 for each WASR they import and then mark it up accordingly. Then we have our Saiga conversions from Arsenal with a solid mark up with out having to worry about the machinery for stamped or milled receivers and barrels. I wonder what Arsenal pays for each "sporter" Saiga?
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RobGR
Member
Definitely a Royal Tiger Imports / IO Inc AK. Considering one of IOs models is called the Hellbound, I'm gonna guess the genius that named that, named the Pitbull. If it looked good and had that name, I'd have no problem with it and I'd be a lot less cynical.
henschman
Member
I for one will never buy an AK that doesn't have a chrome lined barrel.
JHenry
Member
non-chrome lined barrels are generally more accurate while chrome lined require much less matinence. Yugo variants dont have chrome lined barrels but they are still quality firearms. However, unless your buying an m70 or one of its offspins you generally want the chrome lining
henschman
Member
Yeah, I don't buy AK's for match-grade accuracy... I buy them for being maintenance free and reliable. Which is where the chrome-lined barrel comes in. And my chrome lined WASR is plenty accurate for what it needs to do... it keeps the groups under man-size out to 400m.
carbine85
Member
With normal care and cleaning a non chrome lined barrel will go well over 10,000 rounds. Chrome lining in a non military application is over hyped. Most rifles are not chrome lined.
RobGR
Member
"Chrome lined barrels lasted an average of 38,000+ rounds. Nitrocarburized (Melonite) barrels lasted an average of 28,000+ rounds. Untreated barrels lasted an average of 6,000+." - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=597559 per a 1967 Army study
It's definitely one feature to consider when selecting a firearm, especially if shooting corrosive surplus, which I do. I don't see how anyone could refute the claim that chrome lining does not improve barrel longevity and durability. So what if it's not necessarily needed in the civilian market, it's available and has a viable benefit.
I'm pretty sure the non-chromed lined barrel will not be the downfall of the ol "pitbull", but it's definitely not helping to sell it as a reputable AK in the current market. Get a Saiga for less and you'll have a far superior firearm.... with a chrome lined barrel.
It's definitely one feature to consider when selecting a firearm, especially if shooting corrosive surplus, which I do. I don't see how anyone could refute the claim that chrome lining does not improve barrel longevity and durability. So what if it's not necessarily needed in the civilian market, it's available and has a viable benefit.
I'm pretty sure the non-chromed lined barrel will not be the downfall of the ol "pitbull", but it's definitely not helping to sell it as a reputable AK in the current market. Get a Saiga for less and you'll have a far superior firearm.... with a chrome lined barrel.
RobGR
Member
Would like to find a newer study... something within the last 10 years would be nice. Someone post one if possible.
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carbine85
Member
That study was based on full auto fire.
I saw a Pitbull today at the Cincinnati Gun Show. It was $549.00. The plastic furniture is a real piece of sh@t. It's hollow and flexible.
I saw a Pitbull today at the Cincinnati Gun Show. It was $549.00. The plastic furniture is a real piece of sh@t. It's hollow and flexible.
Rob G
Member
I doubt it has much to do with that. More than likely it's because foreign parts kits are so plentiful and cheap. Why pay all the money for tooling and training to produce parts that can be had dirt cheap from overseas?
... couldn't agree more. I don't like the Arsenal furniture and to get it configured the way I like an AKM, I would have to spend an additional $250.00. In the end, I'd have a pricey rifle that wouldn't out-shoot any other AKM that I own.
Now, about the Pitbull... I don't doubt their claims of 1-2" groups. I have a M10-762 and I can shoot 1.5-2" groups all day long with Tula ammo from Walmart - even better with Golden Tiger. If they are saying "100% American made", I would take that as the entire rifle is built here and nothing is imported. If that is not the case, I'd have to say they are being deceptive with their advertising.
Question - If it is a IO Inc. AKM, is that a bad thing? I'm not very familiar with IO.
armysniper
member
Where did you get yours? I live in daytona area.
RobGR
Member
And when you handle one, I'm sure you'll join in on the trash talk. Just be thankful you haven't dropped any coin on one b/c most ppl who have definitely regret it.
They are garbage and I've examined 5 different IO builds at 3 different stores, each a monstrosity. At Turners in Vista CA, I popped the dust cover off one and removed the recoil spring, when I did a large mount of dust (sawdust I think) poured out of the bolt carrier. Is sawdust the new recoil buffer? I don't think so. And I'm not talking about a few pieces, there was a lot, it poured out onto the floor, I was actually waiting for the perplexed salesman to ask me to clean it up.... yeah right. I guess they weren't used to having a customer actually inspect a firearm they were selling. But I'm also sure they did not expect that to happen. There are IOs in Big 5 and Turners in CA, I have no idea why they are carry the worst AK on the market, but they do. From the craftsmanship, the finish, the rivets, the furniture, to the parts, they are at the bottom of the barrel! Why would anyone support or champion their firearms when they produce such garbage, I have no idea.
They are garbage and I've examined 5 different IO builds at 3 different stores, each a monstrosity. At Turners in Vista CA, I popped the dust cover off one and removed the recoil spring, when I did a large mount of dust (sawdust I think) poured out of the bolt carrier. Is sawdust the new recoil buffer? I don't think so. And I'm not talking about a few pieces, there was a lot, it poured out onto the floor, I was actually waiting for the perplexed salesman to ask me to clean it up.... yeah right. I guess they weren't used to having a customer actually inspect a firearm they were selling. But I'm also sure they did not expect that to happen. There are IOs in Big 5 and Turners in CA, I have no idea why they are carry the worst AK on the market, but they do. From the craftsmanship, the finish, the rivets, the furniture, to the parts, they are at the bottom of the barrel! Why would anyone support or champion their firearms when they produce such garbage, I have no idea.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet? Something like that. WTSHTF, I won't care if your rifle is called the "Fruitcake Special" if it's doing it's intended job. I'm in the market for an AK, and would like to know what's the best route, and this seems worth a look. I need a good all-round rifle. It leads me to AKs, which leads me to this and a few others. Under $700 is the goal, but 100% is mandatory. 1-2 MOA, I'm not concerned. If it'll hold under 6in @ 100yds, I'm okay with that from this tool for this app.
mortablunt
Member
It looks like any other AK, except with ugly plastic furniture. I've never heard of Pitbull, and I have no idea what parts are American or to whose specifications the guns are. I wouldn't buy without handing it myself and putting some rounds through it.
RobGR
Member
Then get a WASR-10/63, a flip of the coin but if you are able to inspect it personally, you are GTG. A Century Draco is 100% built in Romania and imported in with all parts, a y stamped receiver, no 922r compliance needed as it is classified as a pistol. I love mine and only wish I could SBR, illegal in CA. Or shell out a little extra for an Arsenal SGL21. Atlantic firearms also has some interesting builds. I would avoid IO Inc.
jlg
Member
I agree with RobGR. After reading the reviews in this post and doing more research online, I'd stay away from this one.
The CIA WASR-10's are good rifles. I've handled quite a few. Some of the major issues I've noticed with them are: front sight post canted, mags not fitting well, safety very stiff. However, most that I've seen have not had any of these issues. If you hand pick one and check for those issues first you shouldn't have any problems.
I have personally built two SBR's from the Dracos and I'm extremely pleased with them. Much higher quality than the WASR's. Basic cost for gun, tax stamp and stock - about $750. Not bad for a good quality 12.5" AK
The CIA WASR-10's are good rifles. I've handled quite a few. Some of the major issues I've noticed with them are: front sight post canted, mags not fitting well, safety very stiff. However, most that I've seen have not had any of these issues. If you hand pick one and check for those issues first you shouldn't have any problems.
I have personally built two SBR's from the Dracos and I'm extremely pleased with them. Much higher quality than the WASR's. Basic cost for gun, tax stamp and stock - about $750. Not bad for a good quality 12.5" AK
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