Plague of 9mm stuck cases in my Dillion!

[wally]

I'm at a loss as to what is causing this.

All of a sudden I can't seem to go 50 rounds without a case stuck in the die that shears off the rim

I've tried all three of my 9mm sizing dies -- Lee, Lee U, and RCBS. The Lee U has loaded very few rounds as I didn't really need it and it does increase the force required to resize, but I tried it as it has little wear. The other Lee and RCBS are well used but both seem still very smooth to resize in my Lee Classic Turret Press that I use for low volume loads.

I've flushed the dies with break-parts cleaner, tried RCBS case lube, silicon spay on a Q-tip inside the die -- nothing seems to prevent it. I've had like 5 stuck and rim ripped off cases in the past 200 rounds Doesn't seem confined to a single type of brass -- had stuck WCC, Win. S&B, PPU, and FC cases

Short of buying a new die and shellplate and hope for the best, any ideas of what might be causing this problem all of a sudden? I've loaded about 12,000 9mm rounds on this press this year without any serious issues until now


I will give Dillon a call and see what they say, but I'm having a hard time getting through. Maybe I'll try their Email support.

Anyone else experience this?

edit:
Bummer, Dillon Tech Support website is down, maybe that is why the phone is so busy

 

[rcmodel]

By any chance have you changed to cleaning cases with liquid cleaner of some sort?

They may be 'too clean' and need a spritz of spray case lube on them.

But quite honestly, I didn't know it was possible to stick a handgun case in a carbide die tight enough to tear the rim off!

rc

 

[wally]

Just using the same old media with a cap full of Dillion Rapid Polish 290 or NuFinish car wax, same as always. I tend to use the Dillion Rapid Polish once every 10 loads or the NuFinish every other load or there abouts. Don't remember which was added most recently.

My media is old, probably very old by most standards, but I don't really care if the cases shine, clean enough for smooth reloading is all I'm after.


But now that you mention it, these are more highly polished that usual for me as the vibrating cleaners got left on overnight when my wife and I celebrated our anniversary and I totally forgot about having started them.

But quite honestly, I didn't know it was possible to stick a handgun case in a carbide die tight enough to tear the rim off!

Me either, but I'm doing it on a regular basis now

That is why I'm wondering if a problem has developed in the shell plate letting it act like a "cutter" to shear the rims. We'll see what Dillon has to say if I manage to get through today.

 

[tootall]

Are you using the correct shell plate for 9mm? Forget what number it is 3 or 5 IIRC...

 

[MtnCreek]

^ That's what I'm wondering. I've left the 9mm plate in when swapping to .223 and it bent the rims of some cases.

 

[blarby]

But now that you mention it, these are more highly polished that usual for me as the vibrating cleaners got left on overnight when my wife and I celebrated our anniversary and I totally forgot about having started them.

If you are used to some residual nufinish on your cases, and now don't have it... you could certainly be galling cases in/to your dies.

How that happens with carbide ? Meh, thats unknown to me.

 

[wally]

^ That's what I'm wondering. I've left the 9mm plate in when swapping to .223 and it bent the rims of some cases.

Nope, I've only a 9mm and .45ACP shell plates, each on their own press. I guess it could have always had the wrong plate by mistake when it was shipped to me, but would it take years and many 10s of thousands of rounds to show up as being incorrect?

I realize its not totally impossible to "wear out" a carbide die, but that's why I tried the Lee U die again, which never had a stuck case for the few thousand rounds I reloaded with it before I decided it didn't really do anything I needed but did make the press stroke a little bit harder, and I was shocked when it suffered a stuck case, so I went to the RCBS and when it quickly had a stuck case I posted here.


Running the original Lee die in my Classic Turret for a few rounds, it sure doesn't seem anything is wrong with the die.

 

[greyling22]

Well, you've tried different dies, is there any pattern to the stuck brass? Is is mix headstamp or all one brand? Veteran cases or something new you picked up at the range? S&B makes some brass washed steel cases. They seen less likely to tear the rim off, but maybe more likely to get stuck? I don't know.

 

[wally]

Well I finally got through on the phone, and it seems Dillon tech support is as mystified as I am, but they are shipping out a new shell plate to try as that was all he could think of to address the problem, figuring maybe its worn and is cutting or bending the brass.

I have the correct #5 shell plate -- had to crank the press while on the phone to see the number -- was lined up right under the case feeder so I couldn't see the number initially.

Removing the stuck cases has not been difficult once I got the Lee decapper out -- a few taps with a long drive pin punch and they popped right out. With the RCBS die I backed off the decapper lock nut and just screwed the decapper in "too far" and it popped the empty right out. These are not un-lubed rifle case in a non-carbide die type of stuck.

 

[wally]

is there any pattern to the stuck brass? Is is mix headstamp or all one brand?

As I said originally 5 different head stamps. Mostly its pick up from what I'd shot the last few outings with probably a few of others left behind mixed in.

The S&B copper washed steel cases I've seen are Berdan primed and easily rejected during pick up. I've reloaded a large amount of Wolf steel cased .45ACP which is usually boxer primed and it really seems softer than brass cases, never a problem with it. I save my once fired Wolf .45 cases and reload them for when I shoot at my friend's ranch where I've little hope of recovering brass in the knee deep weeds.

I've marked the shell plate so I can see if it happens at a single station on the plate, I'll probably try some more tomorrow while waiting for the replacement shell plate from Dillon.

 

[Blue68f100]

Is it possible for the shell plate to rotate when your extracting the brass, ram moving down? This action could put side shear load on the brass causing the brass to shear.

Just a thought.

 

[jmorris]

A 9mm case will be well clear before indexing, a 30-06 case will be clear before indexing as well.

Once you see if they malfunction at just one of the stations, you might see if anything changes if you remove the decapping pin and just size.

Might help further isolate the problem, if it still occurs at random stations on the shell plate.

Can you post a photo of the bottom of the damaged cases?

 

[wally]

Can you post a photo of the bottom of the damaged cases?

Only one, the rest are too deep in the trash to dig for.

Note its sheared off pretty completely on one side only a little on the other. Case has had the primer pocket reamed and has been reloaded more than once. This is typical of what they've looked like, only the PPU and maybe the S&B were "once fired".

 

[Otto]

I've flushed the dies with break-parts cleaner....

Better to use Hoppes #9 and a bronze bore brush. Brake cleaner, Gun Scrubber etc. totally removes any residual film that assists in sizing. Check the inside of the carbide ring for any smears of brass.
Be aware that brass used for 9mm Major is more difficult to size.

 

[243winxb]

Is the sizing die contacting the shell plate?

I've marked the shell plate so I can see if it happens at a single station on the plate

I would check the deck heigth of the shell plate at each station. If you set the sizing die on a thin one, you would be sizing more into the web area of the brass. Normal deck heigth of a shell holder is about .125" Or maybe adjust the sizing die so you have 1/16" between the plate & die. See if it makes a difference??

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[/URL][/IMG] Thats my guess.

 

[243winxb]

the vibrating cleaners got left on overnight

Surface zinc acts as a lube, You removed it. Cartridge brass is 70% copper & 30% Zinc.

 

[rcmodel]

Shell plate fit or indexing problem.

It should have total contact at least 1/2 way around the rim.

If it does, there is no possible way it can only shear of one little side of a rim.

rc

 

[jmorris]

I agree with RC, that is why I asked for the photo. How about one of the top of your shell plate?

 

[wally]

That is why Dillon is sending me a new shell plate. Its sheared off completely on one side and has yielded on the other which you can't really see in the photo.

The die is supposed to touch the shell holder, which is what it does barely taking up the slack in the removable tool head -- finger tight. I set the lock ring with a case sized fully on the up stroke. Been running this press for a long time and a lot of rounds.

Be aware that brass used for 9mm Major is more difficult to size.

Nowhere near max loads, these are set as low as will reliably cycle the pistols I shoot often, its why I find nearly all my brass afterwards factory ammo throws them a lot further.

Last time I adjusted my load was after I got the Lone Wolf barrel for my Glock 17L added 0.1 gr to get it to always lock back on the last shot. Sub-sonic is usually what I'm after.

 

[jmorris]

The die is supposed to touch the shell holder,

I would suggest getting a case gauge and setting the die only low enough for the case to fit the gauge. You can get a bit of tolerance stack with all of the different parts involved and the 9mm is a tapered case.

Can you take a photo of the current shell plate?

 

[LeftyTSGC]

I had a semi-same problem with my Dillon SDB. The culprit was that the shell plate was not aligned properly or angled as it went up and therefore causes the shell to enter other than straight up, I pulled and sheered many brass cases until I realized the issue. Check that the shell plates sits flush, the center screw is not bent/worn, and that there is no debris under it.

The only other problem could be your Die is sitting crooked in its position. If it is not the brass then normally it is an alignment problem. those tolerances are close.

IMHO

 

[gamestalker]

I've never had the problem when resizing, but more recently I experienced problems with "IMI" .357 mag. brass during the down stroke in the Lee powder die. I haven't torn a rim off, but it's been close.

I know it sounds silly to ask, especially in today's modern die's, but are your dies definitely carbide, or the like?

GS

 

[2 Horse]

I have heard someplace that a lot of 9MM brass is showing up with a slight bulge like you see on the 380's, 40's and such. Use the 9mm Makarov Lee FDC die as the bulge buster. Lee even has a note in the new catalog about it.
Don't know but this could be the problem with the stuck case and ripped rim.

 

[wally]

I had a semi-same problem with my Dillon SDB. The culprit was that the shell plate was not aligned properly or angled as it went up and therefore causes the shell to enter other than straight up, I pulled and sheered many brass cases until I realized the issue.

Dillion is sending me a new shell plate, hopefully that will cure the problem.

Since I need to get back on-line quickly, I've also ordered a Lee universal decapper and if the replacement shell plate is not the cure I'll put it in station one, remove the decapping pin from the sizer, put it in station two and move the powder measure to station three (currently empty). This way I can quickly punch out a stuck case and soldier on, but it will waste a primer on each stuck case

've never had the problem when resizing, but more recently I experienced problems with "IMI" .357 mag. brass during the down stroke in the Lee powder die.

I've been noticing this too, but not confined to a single brand of brass. Often it takes more upward pull on the handle to get off the powder drop/expander than it does to start the sized case out of the die on ones that don't stick. On my Dillon set up for .45ACP it almost always takes more pull to get the case off the powder drop/expander than it does to get the case moving out of the sizer, but this has been the story since day one.



The sizing dies are definitely carbide, and I've resized enough cases with both in my Lee Classic Turret as a test to be confident there is no issue with the either die.

 

[jmorris]

've also ordered a Lee universal decapper and if the replacement shell plate is not the cure I'll put it in station one, remove the decapping pin from the sizer, put it in station two and move the powder measure to station three (currently empty

You would need to have one of the old spring return measures if you move it or make a custom bracket for the fail safe rod.

I think a better idea would be to figure out the problem and fixing it. There are a bunch of use using all of the Dillon machines, without having to do something odd, to load ammo.