Plastic or steel guide rod.

[stchman]

Been doing some reading and still cannot find anything concrete that a replacement SS guide rod is an "upgrade" to a stock polymer guide rod.

Besides aesthetics, what advantage does a SS guide rod have over a stock polymer rod besides costing you money?

I would think the manufacturer put a polymer guide rod in the pistol for a specific purpose.

 

[M-Cameron]

purely cosmetic.....you wont see any increased "durability" or any performance increase.....

the MFG put in a polymer because a polymer works.....and theres no benefit to putting a metal one in.

 

[pblanc]

I swapped out the polymer guide rod in my Beretta 92FS, Beretta Cougar 8040 and Stoeger Cougar 8045 for steel ones. My only reason was cosmetics.

There are some who claim that the polymer guide rods are better because the cannot put the pistol out of action by getting bent.

 

[ATLDave]

Steel guide rods add a small amount of weight relative to plastic rods. Whether that's a good or bad thing varies.

 

[herrwalther]

The added mass when going from a polymer to steel guide rod may reduce recoil in some pistols. But other than that I haven't seen any widespread reason for polymer guide rods to be replaced with metal.

 

[Drail]

You think just maybe an injection molded plastic guide rod might be cheaper to manufacture than a steel one? There's your "specific purpose". It has nothing to do with weight or function. It has everything to do with manufacturing costs and profit margin. If polymer is so much better than steel why is that if you look in a professional mechanic's tool chest all of the wrenches and sockets are made from tool steel?

 

[MIL-DOT]

This question has been discussed for many years now, and I still haven't heard any substantive case made for switching from polymer to metal. IMO, it's just another manifestation of this bizarre obsession that so many gun owners have to goober-up their guns with every little after-market "upgrade" they can hunt down on their computers.

 

[LiveLife]

Been doing some reading and still cannot find anything concrete that a replacement SS guide rod is an "upgrade" to a stock polymer guide rod.

Besides aesthetics, what advantage does a SS guide rod have over a stock polymer rod besides costing you money?

I would think the manufacturer put a polymer guide rod in the pistol for a specific purpose.

The added mass when going from a polymer to steel guide rod may reduce recoil in some pistols.

I think recoil spring rate has more to do with reducing recoil. I ran dual recoil spring recoil reducer in two match Glock 22s and while it reduced felt recoil, it did not decrease shot group size. Stainless steel guide rod allows you to change recoil spring rate but if you are not changing spring rate, no advantage other than manufacturing ease/cost. I use 16/17/18.5 lb recoil springs for my 1911 and use heavier recoil springs to reduce felt recoil/muzzle flip of heavier loads.

Glocks come with polymer guide rod and M&Ps come with stainless guide rod. Maybe Glock felt they needed to use polymer guide rod to maintain the "polymer" theme like polymer magazines (although they did go with metal box liner to make them drop free as original magazines did not drop free).

You think just maybe an injection molded plastic guide rod might be cheaper to manufacture than a steel one? There's your "specific purpose". It has nothing to do with weight or function. It has everything to do with manufacturing costs and profit margin.

Recoil springs are consumable item and should be replaced when worn/weakened. So when you replace the captured recoil spring assembly, you are replacing the guide rod anyways so cheaper polymer guide rod would make sense for lower unit cost.

 

[sigarms228]

I stick with poly frame guide rods on my pistols that come with them. Poly flexes and steel not so much which may be of importance to the design of the pistol.

 

[rcmodel]

It depends a lot on the firearm design.

In some designs a flexible plastic guide rod is necessary.

See this about that:
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/guiderod.htm

rc

 

[Drail]

I would never own a gun that required me to replace the guide rod and spring as an "assembly". That sounds like something Chrysler would come up with (and has). Half the time I go to buy a "dealer only" part for my Jeep the dealer tells me I have to replace the entire "assembly" even if the "assembly" is fine.

 

[LiveLife]

More and more captured recoil spring assemblies (RSA) are used in pistols and essential for dual recoil spring set ups often used in compact/subcompact pistols to better manage recoil.

Also, captured RSA makes recoil spring removal/installation easier. Before Glock used captured RSA, it was a pain to get the flat/twisted recoil springs compressed to assemble the slide on the frame.

It's the future trend of recoil springs.

 

[dogtown tom]

Drail ..... If polymer is so much better than steel why is that if you look in a professional mechanic's tool chest all of the wrenches and sockets are made from tool steel?

That's not a valid analogy. I can think of thousands of examples where polymer is a better choice than steel......and not a one of them has to do with production cost.

And what a mechanics tools are made of has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Drail]

" to better manage recoil.." That's hilarious. The only purpose of a "recoil spring" is to return the slide forward and put the barrel into battery. Sorry you didn't like my "analogy". I believe a gun is a serious tool. I do not like plastic tools. But my kind is dying off. It's a brave new world....filled with plastic.

 

[LiveLife]

"to better manage recoil." That's hilarious. The only purpose of a "recoil spring" is to return the slide forward and put the barrel into battery.

I believe Glock switched to dual recoil springs in Gen4 models to "better manage recoil" compared to Gen3 models with single recoil spring.

I use 16/17/18.5 lb recoil springs for my 1911 and use heavier recoil springs to reduce felt recoil/muzzle flip of heavier loads. Since 16 lb spring more than adequately return the slide, why would I use 18.5 lb spring other than manage recoil?

This is for Wilson Combat 18.5 recoil spring I use - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/50...avy-duty-recoil-spring-1911-government-185-lb

Wilson Heavy Duty Recoil Springs are made combat tough to repeatedly take a pounding ... Keeping a fresh recoil spring in your gun will dramatically reduce the pounding your slide and frame receive.

- In general, heavy loads need heavy springs and lighter loads need lighter springs.
- Shooters who are using +P ammunition or self defense ammunition will likely need heavier recoil springs.
- Shooters who are using target ammunition may be able to use lighter recoil springs.

 

[M-Cameron]

just a question here.....

how many people have broken a polymer guide rod through regular (hell, even irregular) use?

glock puts in a polymer guide rod because a polymer guide rod works just fine......and if its cheaper to produce.....great.


the "added weight" is a load of crap......the weight of a steel( or even tungsten) rod isnt that significant where you are going to notice a difference in recoil...

 

[M-Cameron]

" to better manage recoil.." That's hilarious. The only purpose of a "recoil spring" is to return the slide forward and put the barrel into battery. Sorry you didn't like my "analogy". I believe a gun is a serious tool. I do not like plastic tools. But my kind is dying off. It's a brave new world....filled with plastic.

when you go on a boat, do you wear a canvas and cork life vest?

do you get your shots from a glass syringe?

man, what do you do when you drive a car?.......did you replace all the nylon seatbelts?

plastics arent what they were 20-30 years ago.....

and if you dont like "plastics"....you arent shooting a glock anyways.......

 

[SwampWolf]

QUOTE: "...IMO, it's just another manifestation of this bizarre obsession that so many gun owners have to goober-up their guns with every little after-market "upgrade" they can hunt down on their computers..."

True, we Americans seem to have a need to customize or "personalize" everything from cars to lawnmowers. But I don't see any harm in the practice and, on occasion, this "bizarre obsession" may actually serve to enhance a particular gun owner's experience and utility with his firearm. In the case of the subject at hand (plastic vs steel guide rods), probably not so much...

 

[Walt Sherrill]

If polymer is so much better than steel why is that if you look in a professional mechanic's tool chest all of the wrenches and sockets are made from tool steel?

A guide rod is not a high-stress part --they don't need to be made to handle the same tasks and stresses that mechanic's tools must handle.

Manufacturers use polymer gears in many electric motors and auto applications because 1) they don't need lubrication, 2) they can be very durable and run longer without wear, 3) they can be made quickly to very exacting specifications, 4) parts made from the right type of polymer can do the same job as metal, but weigh less, and 5) in some cases they can be cheaper than a similar metal alternative. Sometimes polymer is better.

If I can get a gun that looks the same, feels the same, and performs the same for fewer $dollars, because of polymer components, then I'm all for it.

I remember when SIG first introduced plastic guide rods -- was it in the 1990s?; SIG owners raised so much hell, that SIG stopped the practice for a while. Now I think all SIGs come with plastic guide rods, including their marvelous X-Five series of guns. (The P-226 X-Five .40 I owned had a really complex guide rod assembly with several plastic components. I think that assembly had almost as many parts as one of my Glocks!!)

 

[rcmodel]

I doubt if cost has a lot to do with it.

Steel guide rods can be produced on CNC screw machine lathes faster then you can catch them in a tote box and drag them out of the way for the next tote box.

I think your reason #1 & 2 are the reason, as well as what I posted in #10.

Sometimes a little 'Flex' is necessary in order to keep the guide rod from beating the muzzle shut on the smaller compact guns.

rc

 

[LiveLife]

Now I think all SIGs come with plastic guide rods

Sig 1911s come with metal guide rods.

 

[LiveLife]

Sometimes a little 'Flex' is necessary in the smaller compact guns.

True. While my first impression of Glock in the 80s was, "What is this? Who would make a gun out of plastic?" Since then, I have come to appreciate polymer.

This video shows significant flexing that occurs during firing of a round.

[YOUTUBE]7Fr5ccyriJI[/YOUTUBE]

 

[rcmodel]

Great slow-motion that shows what really goes on during firing.

But it has to be fake!

Note the Glock Prefeckion pistol trapped an empty case in the ejection port with a full mag and jammed.

That never happened in the history of the Glock Perfeck pistols before.

Proving the video is totally fake!!

rc

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Sig 1911s come with metal guide rods.

Yeah, I think my GSR did, too. I forgot about them. Mine was one of the early ones. (I later traded it for a P220 Match which had a plastic guide rod.)

I was really thinking about the P-series guns when I wrote that. I've had a bunch of metal-framed P-series guns, and they've all came with plastic guide rods.

I wonder if there may be some wear issues associated with alloy framed guns and steel guide rods. (At one time that was thought to be the case with the CZ compact alloy guns. CZ once said that using a steel guide rod in the PCR could void the warranty if there was receiver stop/frame wear. They wouldn't, at that time, knowingly sell a Compact steel guide rod to someone for an alloy-framed compact. I haven't heard anything about that concern for a while, now.) Seems like it could be an issue with alloy-framed guns like SIGs and Berettas, too, if steel is used.

 

[Shaq]

You think just maybe an injection molded plastic guide rod might be cheaper to manufacture than a steel one? There's your "specific purpose". It has nothing to do with weight or function. It has everything to do with manufacturing costs and profit margin. If polymer is so much better than steel why is that if you look in a professional mechanic's tool chest all of the wrenches and sockets are made from tool steel?

Because a mechanic's tools have to withstand much more pressure, stress & flexing than a guide rod, therefore they have to be more rigid.