Plastic vs. Steel pistol

[xr1200]

I basically prefer steel or alloy pistols to plastic any day and after working on a alot of plastic frame guns, over the years I found alot of issues with plastic frames and parts most ppl don't really know about.

Facts on plastic guns.

Most of the plastic trigger parts, become stressed with age and some will actually show stress signs at the joints and pin holes.

Alot of plastic parts used in them, are a one time assembly and in some cases, the part must be destroyed in order to remove the part and replaced with brand new parts.

The small roll pins used in the plastic frames often wear out the holes in the frame, causing the pins to walk.

Some manufactures use alot of cheap wire springs that offen bind or break.

Never had any of these issues with a steel or alloy pistol.

I've always been tempted into buying a small carry glock and have shot a cops glock at a range years ago and it didn't seem bad.

But every time it came to shelling out $500-$600 for one and handling it, I decided to pass on it.

So I guess that if your a cop and need to carry a full size pistol all day, and you replace the gun every 3-5 yrs. then your OK.

But for my situation I'll stick with steel.

 

[RKBABob]

I have no doubt that Glocks are quality firearms, durable and reliable, but $600 for something made of plastic?!?! I'll take a Sig, or a Hi-Power, or a 1911, thank you.

 

[forindooruseonly]

This again? Really?

 

[daorhgih]

Hey! Why not put down plastic guns, again!!??

forindooruseonly

"This again? Really?" +1

 

[GLOOB]

Some manufactures use alot of cheap wire springs that offen bind or break.

Well that's such a weird coincidence. I have broken many "cheap wire springs," but they all happened in steel or alloy guns.

The small roll pins used in the plastic frames often wear out the holes in the frame, causing the pins to walk.

I've never seen a roll pin in any of my polymer guns. Can you even use a roll pin in plastic? I know the XD's have some roll pins, but I'm pretty sure they're used in the steel slide, not the frame.

Alot of plastic parts used in them, are a one time assembly and in some cases, the part must be destroyed in order to remove the part and replaced with brand new parts.

This isn't a plastic versus steel thing. Hell, you practically have to destroy the extractor spring on a SIG226 to remove it. SIG armorers are taught to replace the spring with a new one every time they remove the extractor. Clean SIG = replace extractor spring.

 

[xr1200]

how about having to drive a roll pin thru a blind hole in a trigger to remove it, while simply replacing a spring = destroyed trigger.

Replacing an old extractor spring in a sig is common sense.

I am talking about having to destroy a part of a plastic gun in order to remove it as it can only be assembled into the frame of the gun once and must be destroyed or broken in order to remove it, for simple disassembly

 

[GLOOB]

Bear in mind, not all plastic guns are equal. We could talk all day about the crappy roll pin and construction of the (zinc) alloy-framed SNS pistols. I bring a concrete example from a military and police approved firearm, and it sounds like you're describing a Hellcat IO.

And no, I'm not talking about replacing an "old" Sig extractor spring. Every time you remove the extractor, the spring gets ruined in the very process. Isn't this what you were describing as a "problem" with some plastic parts? That you have to destroy them to remove them? BTW, can you give us a specific model/example while we're at this? Your example is sorta vague, but it really sounds more like a design issue rather than a plastic vs steel thing.

 

[sprale]

 

[481]

Facts on plastic guns.

This was the first sign that everything afterwards would be far from factual.


By way of example, Glocks imported into this country in the mid- to late- 1980s remain operable to this day (24 years) which clearly suggests the fallacy of the dubious assertion that pistols having a polymer construction would require replacement after just three to five years.

I would also expect similar longevity from any polymer framed pistol of reputable manufacture. (Sig, Walther, S&W, Ruger, etc.)

My Glock 17 has been at my side since mid-1992 (18 years) and has better than 92,000 rounds through it and I expect it to remain operable for much longer.

 

[LightningMan]

I agree, wasn't there just a topic on this very subject not long ago? This is beating a dead horse, all guns; steel, alloy, & polymer/plastic have their good & bad points. Choose what you like, and let it go at that. LM

 

[Sniper X]

Here's the mathematical equation answer to the question....

Plastic+pistol=ugly
steel+pistol=beautiful

 

[TH3180]

Oh boy I have heard about these threads, I have never seen one in action. Heck I will throw my $.02 in. I like both.

 

[GLOOB]

I've got a nice knife made with high grade carbon steel and a super hard corrosion resistant finish. But for some reason the manufacturer cheaped out and made the handle out of Zytel. If anyone comes across a knife made 100% out of 8Cr13MoV, let me know, because I'm afraid now that this knife is a POS. I'm ok with carrying around a few extra ounces for all steel, because I know one day my great grand children could be using such a knife; whereas the Zytel will probably turn to dust in 100 years. I don't want my great grand kids to play with dust.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Plastic+pistol=ugly
steel+pistol=beautiful

I've seen plenty of ugly all steel guns and I mean really ugly.

 

[BCRider]

WAY TO GO! ! ! !

19 posts into your life here on THR and you post a thread that is guaranteed to make probably 80% of both steel and polymer gun owning members dismiss you as a crackpot. You may as well quite and go do something else now since no one will put any value on anything else you type.

I'm not a plastic gun fan myself but I can see their advantages as well as their disadvantages. Oddly enough steel guns have both advantages and disadvantages as well as their specific model related weak points just like anything mechanical be it made from metal or plastic.

And you can't really argue with the track record of the plastic guns from the major names that are used for many thousands of rounds of shooting per year by IPSC, IDPA and USPSA. If these guns were doodoo I'd think that many of the shooters would switch over to all metal guns. But such is certainly far from the case in any of the stock or production classes.

GOOD GRIEF! Next you'll be posting that single malt Scotch is swill fit only for pigs and that only good bourbon is a true Man's drink!

... it's a good thing that I like both of them....

 

[jake48]

My high point 45 is definetly on the ugly gun list but works for shooting holes in paper

 

[Old krow]

GOOD GRIEF! Next you'll be posting that single malt Scotch is swill fit only for pigs and that only good bourbon is a true Man's drink!

That's just heresy!!

If we can just go ahead and make this a Steel vs Plastic thread all of my guns will be junk and none of them will feel left out.

 

[REAPER4206969]

 

[janobles14]

i only shoot ice weapons because they cant be detected. and they will work great for the scotch or bourbon when you have neutralized the threat.

 

[BCRider]

Easy does it there Old Krow, it was only a hypothetical sort of deal. I didn't really mean it.

... Here, allow me to pour you a virtual shot of Ardbeg to ease the rush of adrenaline that I caused you....Or would you prefer the Glenmorangie?

 

[JCT]

When the argument becomes "which looks best" it's about as ridiculous as asking which color shoes are best to jog in.... Looks are a personal preference (I myself like reps of older cowboy guns in that category ) , but practicality is another thing.
I'm currently shopping for an XD45, which costs considerably less than what I'd ideally like, a Springfield 1911 loaded.... The XD will hold 13 rounds, be much lighter, cheaper, smaller and if taken care of, last just as long. Does it look as cool as the 1911 loaded? no way...does it fit the job for a great reliable, lightweight carry gun that won't break the bank? absolutely.
I guess in my mind, polymer frames exist to be lighter and cheaper to produce. They ought to cost a bit less than they do, but aren't too bad really. I don't think polymer guns have been around long enough to see if they stand the test of time, but I know they won't rust and are very chemically stable. Chances are they'll last just as long as any good steel.

 

[Old krow]

Easy does it there Old Krow, it was only a hypothetical sort of deal. I didn't really mean it.

Whew! Thanks! I was getting scared. Ardbeg please sir

 

[fastbolt]

I've been trained as an armorer for 4 different plastic framed service pistol designs over the years (7 classes, including some recerts).

I've seen and heard of some minor problems caused by improper disassembly/reassembly and user level maintenance, neglect or abuse, and an occasional tolerance issue, but not anything on a wide scale. The designs seem to work rather well for their intended purpose.

Off the top of my head I can think of isolated instances where some plastic trigger pins (inside the trigger, not the frame) "walked" in at least 3 of the different manufacturer's offerings. Well, sometimes a tolerance issue can surface, including with vendor-supplied parts. It happens. Not often, fortunately.

BTW, when it comes to all 4 of the platforms for which I've been trained as an armorer, none of them recommended disassembly of the trigger/trigger bar by armorers (and definitely not by untrained users) as part of normal maintenance, corrective action or repair. Triggers/trigger bars are replaced as an assembly if a problem occurs.

Also, if removed and installed properly, solid, roll & coil pins don't damage plastic frames. Using the right tools really helps, too. Think the proper sized pin and roll pin punches - and maybe even a roll pin starter punch for those models which use roll or coil pins. It can be amazing how easily someone can "roll over", deform and even mangle the end of a roll or coil pin, and then possibly damage the plastic frame hole.

The nested roll pins and the newer "shouldered" solid pins used in various Sig Sauer pistols are similarly "easy" to remove and replace when the right tools and techniques are used, combined with some experience. Not so much when done by untrained folks who think having a pin punch and a hammer are "good enough" to perform some "kitchen table gunsmithing".

AS an armorer I wouldn't necessarily consider removal of the new style Sig extractors is considered difficult (in the solid machined slides). When I went through the Sig pistol armorer class it seemed rather like removing an 870 extractor (aside from the different angle of the spring & plunger, of course).

Plastic framed service pistols are here to stay, like it or not. They offer some distinct advantages at the user & armorer level, and are easier & less costly to manufacture than machined frames, overall.

I tend to prefer a nicely done steel or aluminum framed service pistol, myself, but I find that I also own and use 7 plastic pistols at this point, and will likely pick up at least one more (another plastic .45, along with at least one more steel .45, as well ).

Just my thoughts ...

 

[noylj]

Does any one realize that "alot" is not a word in English?
You can have "a lot" of things or you can "allot" a certain number of things.
If we want English to be the official language, we should learn something about it...

 

[fastbolt]

Hey, maybe it wasn't a case of incorrect language. Maybe it's just a case of a plastic part not working right in the keyboard ...

Maybe an all-steel or aluminum keyboard is the answer.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.