Please judge my actions

[Redd Flynt]

My Wife was driving to town in our Daughters car, sneezed rather suddenly and hit the leading edge of a guard rail. The guard rail, seat belts and air bag all operated as advertised. County Sheriff and Fire responded, got her out of the car and both made an immediate visual ID and confirmed same with her ID cards. She was transported to Hospital with her ID and purse. Highway Patrol also responded.

County dispatch called my home and left a message "B..., this is S..... at dispatch, V..... was just in an accident, call me". I wasn't home so knew nothing of the accident. I had to go into town and came upon the scene about 1.5 hours after it happened. Imagine my shock to see a family car wrapped around a guard rail and my Wife gone. The County folks had all left leaving only the Highway Patrol Officer and some DOT people.

My first comment was, to no one in particular, "What happened, where's my Wife?" The Highway Patrol Officer came up and said "Who are you?" I responed "I'm her husband, is my Wife OK, where is She?". She answered with "I'll need to see your ID, registration and proof of insurance. I don't know who you are". I responded with my name and again indicated it was my Wife driving. She indicated that she didn't know anything but needed to see my ID and the vehicle papers and said my wife and I were not the registered owners. (How did she know that?) I told her that since she didn't know anything I was going to the County Dispatch office. I then got in my truck and started to back up when the engine quit.

I looked in time to see the Officers hand on the ignition key and then drop to her gun at which point she released the primary retention snap. Her hand went around the grip and her thumb extended down to the secodary retention device. I remained motionless. I was thinking clear enough to realize that we were about to have an incident that both of us would regret.

After a few seconds passed she again demanded ID and vehicle papers. I made a quick search of the car and found nothing. I asked her what she wanted to know and again gave her my name, my wifes name, daughters name and all the phone number and address info. Then I asked again about my wife, she still said she knew nothing.

About then the officer was distracted by a radio call and I took advantage of the situation and drove away with her yelling at me, hand on gun.

So, sock it to me gang. Was I being unreasonable under the circumstances?

 

[TallPine]

So I presume they didn't chase you down and shoot you ...?

I'd say that the officer was being quite unreasonable. What is it with Nevada, anyway? Isn't that where the cowboy (Hibbel, Hibbett, ??? ) was arguing with his daughter in his pickup?

 

[dralarms]

Dang I'd say your lucky not to be visiting the gray bar hotel.

1st. why did you not have registration and insurance papers?

2nd did you not have your DL? that should have been enough to ID you.

3rd if a cop tells you to stop, you stop. Leaving could be a felony charge.

4th you never told us how your wife and family is. Shame on you.

5th If they don't show up on your door to arrest you for "evading" then you are lucky.

 

[rhubarb]

You had more important things to worry about than the officer's paperwork. Don't know that I would have been any less impatient in the same situation.

Hope your wife's ok.

 

[Conqueror]

I'd have gotten her name and filed a complaint. It is absolutely inappropriate to almost draw your weapon on a distraught husband wondering where his possibly seriously-injured wife is, and it doesn't sound like you did anything that should have made her fearful.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

The officer needs to establish your ID before divulging information about the accident to make sure they don't release sensative information to improper parties.

However, detaining you from leaving? Out of order. She had no authority to detain you short of suspecting you were in a mental state that would impair your driving... in which case she wouldn't be worrying about your identity anymore because random strangers don't get in distraught mental states over other peoples accidents.

 

[Conqueror]

Nor would she be drawing her weapon, in such a case.

 

[kingpin008]

3rd if a cop tells you to stop, you stop. Leaving could be a felony charge.

Nonsense. If he's done nothing wrong (which he didn't) and the officer has no reason to suspect him of a crime (which she didn't) and if his presence isn't required to complete an investigation (which it wasn't) he's completely free to leave. There is absolutely NO reason that ANY citizen must stop and comply with an officer's orders if they've done nothing wrong.

Ever heard of unlawful detention?

Hell, let's run through the rest -

1st. why did you not have registration and insurance papers?

If it was the daughter's car, why would he have the registration and insurance papers? And even if it was his car, he wasn't involved in the accident, therefore he'd have no reason to produce the papers anyway.

2nd did you not have your DL? that should have been enough to ID you.

Once again, he had no legal requirement to identify himself. He committed no crime, was not a focus of investigation. He was a private citizen inquiring as to the status of a family member.

5th If they don't show up on your door to arrest you for "evading" then you are lucky.

Oh really? So they'd let him completely leave the scene, only to swoop down on him once he's safely at home? That's an amazing bit of strategy.

Seriously - why in the world would they do that, when the officer could have arrested him right there? or why didn't they send a car to perform a traffic stop? No, I think he's good to go.

 

[Redd Flynt]

tallpine

No she didn't persue me, she knew I would be with the Sheriff.

And yes the incident with the father/daughter happened in Nevada. The Supreme Court ruled that a cop has no right to see ID only to ask your name.

dralarms

I didn't say I didn't have the papers, only that I was unable to locate them in my daughters car. The cop already knew who I was, I gave my name and relationship. The cop and the County had all the required ID before I got to the scene.

I had my ID, DL, military ID and other. I do not have to show it to a cop unless stopped while driving.

Unless detained for some reason I may disengage a conversation with a cop at anytime I wish. She never indicated that I was being detained.

Wife is doing well but still in hospital.

Cops have not been on the door step yet.


Conquerer

I have the cops name and badge on the several tickets she wrote my wife in the hospital ER and will sending a letter to the DPS Chief and cc: to the Governor.

ClickClickD'oh

Quite right about the confidentiallity thing except how did I know the occupant was female when she had already been transported. The highway cop had been on scene for over an hour and knew all the details of names.

 

[eliphalet]

File a complaint, her superiors will hopefully give her a little talk about public relations and maybe save another motorist from her uncalled for improper attitude.

 

[Redd Flynt]

Thank You all for responding so soon. I do feel a bit better about he situation now.

 

[v35]

I think I would have been highly emotional knowing my wife was in an accident and then seeing my daughter's car "wrapped around a guard rail". The lack of consideration of the highway patrol officer was bad enough. The implied threat of drawing her weapon is inexcusable.

You told her who you were ("I'm her husband"). Not only did she did not answer your question she acted as if she didn't even hear you ("I don't know who you are"). You did the right thing by putting her in her place, basically saying "since you don't know anything I'm going to find someone who does".

Sounds like she ought to be counseled on her obvious failure to perform the community service she was hired to do. File a complaint.

I hope your wife recovers quickly. What was she charged with anyway? Couldn't find her DL after hitting a guard rail? Unlawful sneezing?

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

ClickClickD'oh

Quite right about the confidentiallity thing except how did I know the occupant was female when she had already been transported. The highway cop had been on scene for over an hour and knew all the details of names.

Emergency network band scanner.

Don't get me wrong, I think the officer was completely and totally out of line with everything after the initial ID request. Absent and ID she could have run the tags on the vehicle you arrived in and gotten a return with the same family name.

 

[mekender]

what tickets was she given? at worst all i could see was failure to maintain proper control of a motor vehicle... and possibly damage to city/state/county property....

its rare for someone to have a ticket stick for an accident that doesnt involve someone else's car or a building/power pole... least ive not heard of too many...

 

[bruss01]

You told her who you were ("I'm her husband"). Not only did she did not answer your question she acted as if she didn't even hear you ("I don't know who you are").

V35,

How many newspaper reporters looking for a scoop, or even idle busybodies are capable of spewing the words "I'm her husband" in order to coax a juicy tidbit from the officer on the scene? I'd be very surprised if they aren't trained to deal with this sort of deception. Until he presents proof of identity, she doesn't know who he is, only who he is CLAIMING to be. I don't think the request to see ID was unreasonable as a prerequisite to giving out personal and/or sensitive information. "Identify yourself" doesn't mean pick yourself out of a line-up, it generally means show some proof that you are who you say you are. I'm sure that's what the officer was intending when she asked him to "identify himself". He didn't, which might have made her start to wonder "hey, what's REALLY going on here if this guy is jerking me around on a simple request to ID himself? " The vehicle wasn't registered to the driver or to this wild-eyed person who showed up out of nowhere... no documents, are we possibly dealing with a case of Grand Theft Auto here? I'm not saying those are reasonable assumptions, but they might be a window into what was going thru the officer's mind during the chaotic interraction. I don't know what the gun handling might have been about, maybe some of the officers on the board might have a comment about that. Again, car theft is a felony, so she might've thought she had a possible felon (car theft ring) in front of her trying to get away without being ID'd by the police.

That said, if I experienced the same situation I doubt I would have been very understanding of the officer's behavior either, and maybe only in retrospect would I have been able to put it in some kind of context from her perspective.

Redd, I have sneezed numerous times while driving, and it has never caused me to lose control of the vehicle. That must have been one hell of a sneeze! Is there more to it than that? (some people have uncontrollable sneezing fits that go on for a few seconds or even minutes or black out - temporarily lose their vision or see spots for a few seconds- while sneezing) Glad it sounds like she will be ok.

 

[possom813]

First off, Hope the wife is ok, and I would have reacted in a similar manner.

its rare for someone to have a ticket stick for an accident that doesnt involve someone else's car or a building/power pole... least ive not heard of too many...

I actually got a ticket for a single rollover in my truck. I landed in a ditch on a gravel road and got a ticket from DPS for "Unsafe Speed under the Limit". Keep in mind the road was posted 55 and I was going about 30.


-John

 

[JWarren]

Popping snaps on a guy worried about the condition of his wife after a wreck???

I wouldn't be on a Forum, I'd be in the mayor's office.


That cop needs to either lose the badge or be placed in a position where they are not in a position to draw a firearm in the line of duty.


I saw nothing that justified that in this encounter. I saw nothing that justifyed the hassling you got.

I DID see mixed-up priorities on the part of the officer. I DID see flagrant misuse of authority.


I'd have a formal appology from the Department AND the officer or I'd have her badge.



No.. this isn't Police bashing. This is bashing that officer.


I've seen officers that have a "clue" before. When my home was broken into last December, it was uncertain if the crook was still there. My wife was there in her car and had called me on the cell. I called 911 while I was enroute from my office.

I honestly did not know A Jeep could go that fast.


Just as I was getting close to where I turn off, a deputy pulled me over for speeding.

As soon as I stopped I got out and said "My wife just called and we've been broken in. She is there alone and I don't know if she is in danger or not. Do we REALLY want to do this NOW?"

His response?

Oh... you called that in? I'm following you.

And that was the end of that.

He is a great guy, did a through investigation, and showed a great deal of professionalism. I feel lucky that he is a member of our force, and hope he is around for a long time-- or at least trains a good replacement before he moves on to greener pastures.



But the one mentioned here-- seriously... she needs a dispatcher job.


-- John

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

She needs to be manning a desk or a drive-thru window. I don't know enough about police SOP in a situation like that but what she did seems completely out of line. Did she want him to wait paitently while she ran all his information when his wife may be dying in the hospital?

 

[v35]

You told her who you were ("I'm her husband"). Not only did she did not answer your question she acted as if she didn't even hear you ("I don't know who you are").

I reiterate he answered the LEO's question and was owed a response. The LEO's response was not only discourteous and insensitive, it was nonresponsive therefore worthless. If she had no knowledge of the OP's wife's condition, she could have said so and directed him to someone who did. If she had knowledge of her condition, she could have directed him to someone who could provide details of her location, or offered to provide those details after explaining her need to ascertain his eligibility to learn them.

The circumstances related by the OP called for a response more tactful than tactical. A person with her responsibilities ought to know the difference.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Off topic, and off kilter.