Then I'd really consider a LCP....even though it's a .380, and especially because it's a .380.
Pocket 9mm suggestions for guns without issues
- Thread starter stogiegila
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I was going to say that I think the much-maligned .32 ACP is more popular than people think. But maybe "popular" is not the right word for it. I believe it is probably carried by more people than most would think, maybe carried grudgingly, because it is manageable and with FMJ ammo it will punch hole deep enough to reach vital organs.
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
I was gonna say...my "go to" pistols for when I must have a gun and it must be deep concealed/pocket/no print carry are .32 ACP. But I have been told that carrying .32ACP is a joke and it really seems to make some folks hostile that I'd be so lazy or stupid to think a .32 can do anything but bounce off a BG.
Not to start that in this thread....if you are recoil sensitive and need a pocket pistol that is uber reliable and teeny tiny then 9mm is gonna be a problem. Recoil in tiny, pocket sized 9's is gonna be snappy for the OP.
.32 ACP? Now we're talkin....
Decent penetration with the right ammunition, decent number of rounds in the mag, excellent follow up shot capability, low recoil, etc. I prefer .32 ACP to .380 ACP. 9mm is better....40 or .45 better yet but then we start with that recoil and size issue again.
VooDoo
Not to start that in this thread....if you are recoil sensitive and need a pocket pistol that is uber reliable and teeny tiny then 9mm is gonna be a problem. Recoil in tiny, pocket sized 9's is gonna be snappy for the OP.
.32 ACP? Now we're talkin....
Decent penetration with the right ammunition, decent number of rounds in the mag, excellent follow up shot capability, low recoil, etc. I prefer .32 ACP to .380 ACP. 9mm is better....40 or .45 better yet but then we start with that recoil and size issue again.VooDoo
stogiegila,
I also suggest that you try the PM9 again. Early production PM9s did have problems and reliability was hit or miss.
I have two PM9s and both have been extremely reliable and neither one needed the suggested 200 round break in. They have a very nice trigger and will handle any 9mm ammo on the market including +P.
They're quirky in that the front sight dove tail is cut tightly therefore the front sight is difficult to replace. You also need to use the slide stop to load the first round into the chamber. That doesn't affect the reliability of the guns though since they feed and fire any 9mm ammo that I load in them with very good accuracy.
I originally started carrying the PM9s again while waiting for my XDS-45s to return from the recall but I may stick with the PM9 as my pocket gun since it's so much easier to carry in that mode.
I'd also look at the Ruger LCP. My Brother has a second generation model and it's more reliable than the earlier models with a noticeably better trigger.
I also suggest that you try the PM9 again. Early production PM9s did have problems and reliability was hit or miss.
I have two PM9s and both have been extremely reliable and neither one needed the suggested 200 round break in. They have a very nice trigger and will handle any 9mm ammo on the market including +P.
They're quirky in that the front sight dove tail is cut tightly therefore the front sight is difficult to replace. You also need to use the slide stop to load the first round into the chamber. That doesn't affect the reliability of the guns though since they feed and fire any 9mm ammo that I load in them with very good accuracy.
I originally started carrying the PM9s again while waiting for my XDS-45s to return from the recall but I may stick with the PM9 as my pocket gun since it's so much easier to carry in that mode.
I'd also look at the Ruger LCP. My Brother has a second generation model and it's more reliable than the earlier models with a noticeably better trigger.
hariph creek
Member
They all have "issues" at one point or another. Especially when a service caliber is put in such a small platform.
I use and love the P290RS. Basically about the same size as a PM9/CM9 with a (very little) more weight. Which tames recoil and makes for a very shootable gun. It's never missed a beat. Plus it is pocketable.
If you like hammer fired guns with TRUE DAO? They're great, otherwise you might not like it.
I use and love the P290RS. Basically about the same size as a PM9/CM9 with a (very little) more weight. Which tames recoil and makes for a very shootable gun. It's never missed a beat. Plus it is pocketable.
If you like hammer fired guns with TRUE DAO? They're great, otherwise you might not like it.
wally
Member
None of the sub compacts can reach the reliability of the significantly larger sub-compacts. As long as the mean rounds between failure is at least 5X the ammo you plan to carry they really help meet the fist rule of a gun fight: "Have a gun!"
My Kahr CW9 is very reliable I run ~50 rounds a week through it (~2000/year) and have had it long enough to be over 10,000 rounds through it. There is nothing wrong with the Kahr trigger if you have any clue as to how to shoot a double action revolver.
My Kahr CW9 is very reliable I run ~50 rounds a week through it (~2000/year) and have had it long enough to be over 10,000 rounds through it. There is nothing wrong with the Kahr trigger if you have any clue as to how to shoot a double action revolver.
stogiegila
Member
Wow, that is interesting, I didn't know that. You mean you can't sling shot the first round? That would bug me.
I am very comfortable shooting my PPK in 380 auto. Recoil isn't a problem with this gun and I find it light enough to shoot with either hand, one handed (even with my bad shoulder), although I have yet to go to the range since the surgery.
The PPK also easily fits in my pocket, but drawing isn't quick.
I guess what i'm looking for is a smaller replacement for my G26, which will fit in my pocket when needed. I saw the ads for the Nano and Shield and got the bug. I wouldn't part with my G26 unless its replacement is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Its just lately i'm reading so many posts complaining about problems with these guns which really worries me.
As for triggers, I am not a fan at all of a long double action revolver type trigger, which is why when I got a revolver I picked the LCR. That is a trigger I can easily live with.
The DA on the PPK isn't great but manageable, a little worse than a Sig to me, but doable and it's only the first shot. I am very accurate with it, so even with some inconsistencies with the DA trigger, I'm still combat proficient with it.
I found a local dealer who has a Nano and another has some Kahrs. No Shields to be found. So i'll hit the stores this weekend and check them out first hand. I'm thinking there is a strong possibility that I will hate some of the triggers.
Thanks for all the help
wow6599
Member
I think Kahr recommends that, but I can get my PM9 to chamber a rd without using the slide stop.
wow6599
Member
Which ones, and what expensive ammo? I want to avoid these firearms, but don't have that list of guns.
I wouldn't say the R9 requires a break-in period but the round that most people report having success with is the 124gr Gold Dot, so the first 100 rounds were the Gold Dots.
Then I shot about a half box of 124gr Lawman before trying 147gr PDX1 and Ranger "T"
I guess I could have tried putting 115gr practice ammo through the R9 to start out with but I didn't want to mess with it.
Then I shot about a half box of 124gr Lawman before trying 147gr PDX1 and Ranger "T"
I guess I could have tried putting 115gr practice ammo through the R9 to start out with but I didn't want to mess with it.
After going through the pocket carry phase and buying and trying many types of guns, I went back to IWB
For me, I can get to and aim SO much faster with a IWB carry.
My carry guns are the Shield 40 (absolutely love this gun) and an M&P45C
If I HAD to pocket carry, I would probably go LCR. For me, because of the rounded back, pulls MUCH easier out of my pocket than a semi auto
Lay an LCR (or similar ) nose down on a table and do the same thing with a semi auto. The sharp angle of back of the semi auto is what you are fighting when you have to quickly draw from a pocket
Good luck with your choices
For me, I can get to and aim SO much faster with a IWB carry.
My carry guns are the Shield 40 (absolutely love this gun) and an M&P45C
If I HAD to pocket carry, I would probably go LCR. For me, because of the rounded back, pulls MUCH easier out of my pocket than a semi auto
Lay an LCR (or similar ) nose down on a table and do the same thing with a semi auto. The sharp angle of back of the semi auto is what you are fighting when you have to quickly draw from a pocket
Good luck with your choices
DAdams
Member
It's difficult to do what you want with one gun.
Kahr says 200 Round Break-in. It's true and perhaps then some if yours ever has to go back. If they replace parts you can sort of have to start over. Kahr also recommends slide release as opposed to SS. I like mine but they can be a challenge. They seem to go one way or another. Trouble free or not without challenges. The new ones supposedly have an improved trigger.
In my view pocket carry comes down to weight. I simply cannot deal with anything in my pocket over 15 ounces loaded......
If I were starting over today...I was where you are 7 years ago...I would likely do the following combo. LCP, Kahr 9 or LCP S&W J Frame.
As it turned out for me with what was available at the time I did Seecamp .380 (that would be the expensive LCP today), Kahr PM9 (too big and heavy for the pocket IMO) tried a 642 snub, too heavy, liked the format, went MP 340 with CT Grips.
To summarize then LCP, and light snub, Ruger or Smith.
Also I don't recall seeing the Walther PPS as a possible. Wouldn't work for me, but might for you.
In the budget price range don't over look the BERSA.
By my criteria by weight the Diamondback DB9 would be the only one to make the cut...and I know nothing about it.
I still own all these.
In pictorial summary I pocket carry one of these two-
Neither is a 9mm. But one is capable of .357 Magnum.
Kahr says 200 Round Break-in. It's true and perhaps then some if yours ever has to go back. If they replace parts you can sort of have to start over. Kahr also recommends slide release as opposed to SS. I like mine but they can be a challenge. They seem to go one way or another. Trouble free or not without challenges. The new ones supposedly have an improved trigger.
In my view pocket carry comes down to weight. I simply cannot deal with anything in my pocket over 15 ounces loaded......
If I were starting over today...I was where you are 7 years ago...I would likely do the following combo. LCP, Kahr 9 or LCP S&W J Frame.
As it turned out for me with what was available at the time I did Seecamp .380 (that would be the expensive LCP today), Kahr PM9 (too big and heavy for the pocket IMO) tried a 642 snub, too heavy, liked the format, went MP 340 with CT Grips.
To summarize then LCP, and light snub, Ruger or Smith.
Also I don't recall seeing the Walther PPS as a possible. Wouldn't work for me, but might for you.
In the budget price range don't over look the BERSA.
By my criteria by weight the Diamondback DB9 would be the only one to make the cut...and I know nothing about it.
I still own all these.
In pictorial summary I pocket carry one of these two-
Neither is a 9mm. But one is capable of .357 Magnum.
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Gun makers have been relying on Cad Cam and CNCs. In the old German days, all guns were handmade, and every pistol checked and every part numbered. Building a gun isn't easy so that's why most everything is based off old designs (1911, Browning HP, & Walther PPK).
As far as the 'Micro Nines' - Colt made a "Pocket Nine"
http://www.armslist.com/posts/2139692/bloomington-minnesota-handguns-for-sale--colt-pocket-9
As far as the 'Micro Nines' - Colt made a "Pocket Nine"
http://www.armslist.com/posts/2139692/bloomington-minnesota-handguns-for-sale--colt-pocket-9
arizonamailman
Member
wife = ruger LCP380 Daughter = S&W Bodyguard 380
stogiegila
Member
Well handled the shield, nano, kahr, Ruger lc9 and even the diamondback. In all honesty none of them impressed me enough to give up my G26 and PPK
The shield seemed the highest quality but was too close in size to the Glock. The Kahr felt the best in my hand. But I had extreme difficulty in releasing the slide stop. I actually couldn't do it and the sales guy actually hurt himself doing it and he was a big dude
I hated the Ruger never ending trigger pull and didn't find the Nano comfortable
So I'm staying with my G26 PPK combo and will keep my LCR and give it some more range. Time
This was a learning experience .... Thanks
The shield seemed the highest quality but was too close in size to the Glock. The Kahr felt the best in my hand. But I had extreme difficulty in releasing the slide stop. I actually couldn't do it and the sales guy actually hurt himself doing it and he was a big dude
I hated the Ruger never ending trigger pull and didn't find the Nano comfortable
So I'm staying with my G26 PPK combo and will keep my LCR and give it some more range. Time
This was a learning experience .... Thanks
hardluk1
member
Issues?? yea they all make a few firearm with issues. Getting one can be the luck of the draw more times than not. Sometimes the issues are there own problems and the ammo we have seen over the last few years. Never bought a new firearm that had an issue. I have bought several used pistol from pissed owners and one of those had to go home for some tlc. It was a kt p-11 and it has been great for some 4 years in a family members hands. I carried one of the so bitched about Taurus handguns for 20 years . A 38sp 85 ss. Still a great snubby some 26 years later. I have 3 kahrs that are my CC pistols now. They are 5, 4 and 1 year old many thousands of rounds fired and never a single issue.
We also have a couple tcp 380's in the family. The C series of the pistol. They have been a couple great little pistols. eat everthing tried, great trigger and easy to shot well for a tiny handgun.
Bottom line ,some people can not make a micro size pistol run. Some may not know how to think thru a possible problem or if its ammo related and blame the gun first. Then regardless of make there will allways be a few problems so write out the problem and send it back for some tlc and don't be a whinner.
We also have a couple tcp 380's in the family. The C series of the pistol. They have been a couple great little pistols. eat everthing tried, great trigger and easy to shot well for a tiny handgun.
Bottom line ,some people can not make a micro size pistol run. Some may not know how to think thru a possible problem or if its ammo related and blame the gun first. Then regardless of make there will allways be a few problems so write out the problem and send it back for some tlc and don't be a whinner.
I was at Gander Mt yesterday and handled the PM9 & CM9, the slide stop isn't easy to release, but it's not impossible and IMO shooting the pocket nines requires decent wrist/finger/grip strength anyway, even the ones with a little more mass like the MK9 and Boberg.
If you compare working the slide on Sig Sauer P290, Kahr PM9 or any other little nine out there to working the slide on a G17 - you'll notice that the slides on the little guns are not as easy to work. I haven't run across a pocket nine that has a slide that is "easy" to work. I think the fact that they're so small dictates that they have very stiff recoil springs in them.
I dunno, you might want to improve your hand and forearm strength:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8787169&postcount=32
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8787137&postcount=31
Otherwise, you're going to find fault with every pocket nine out there and the G26 is probably the smallest nine you're going to think is OK.
If you compare working the slide on Sig Sauer P290, Kahr PM9 or any other little nine out there to working the slide on a G17 - you'll notice that the slides on the little guns are not as easy to work. I haven't run across a pocket nine that has a slide that is "easy" to work. I think the fact that they're so small dictates that they have very stiff recoil springs in them.
I dunno, you might want to improve your hand and forearm strength:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8787169&postcount=32
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8787137&postcount=31
Otherwise, you're going to find fault with every pocket nine out there and the G26 is probably the smallest nine you're going to think is OK.
stogiegila
Member
Will the slide release ease up on the Kahr after the recommended 200 round break in period.
Also is there a significant difference between the CM9 and PM9 barrel rifling?
Also is there a significant difference between the CM9 and PM9 barrel rifling?
Tomac
Member
Wife and I have owned 3 Kahrs: P380 (her CCW), CM9 & CW9 (mine). The slide lock on all 3 were very difficult to release when new but all lightened up nicely after the suggested pre-firing prep work (clean, lube, manually cycle 200 times and/or leave the slide locked back overnight).
ETA: I don't believe the differences between the CM9 & PM9 justify the price difference but YMMV.
I also own the P290RS (my EDC), and while the trigger isn't as nice as on the Kahrs, the slight extra weight makes a difference in perceived recoil, the slide is easier to rack and the slide release is easier to use right out of the box. 6rd mag for max concealability and 8rd mag w/extension for more rds & a full grip (my fav).
Tomac
Size comparison, P380 in the middle, P290RS at bottom right:
ETA: I don't believe the differences between the CM9 & PM9 justify the price difference but YMMV.
I also own the P290RS (my EDC), and while the trigger isn't as nice as on the Kahrs, the slight extra weight makes a difference in perceived recoil, the slide is easier to rack and the slide release is easier to use right out of the box. 6rd mag for max concealability and 8rd mag w/extension for more rds & a full grip (my fav).
Tomac
Size comparison, P380 in the middle, P290RS at bottom right:
stogiegila
Member
Thanks Tomac. That is what I wanted to know. Stopped at my 3rd LGS who had a Kahr CM9 NiB that I could actually work the slide stop on. This one must have been handled a lot because it was no where near as stiff as the others I've held
Fits nicely in my hand and it does have a very nice trigger so I traded in my LCR and bought it along with an extended round mag
Now I just need to break it in
Thanks
Fits nicely in my hand and it does have a very nice trigger so I traded in my LCR and bought it along with an extended round mag
Now I just need to break it in
Thanks
HighRoadRover
Member
I have looked at all of the smaller pistols and cannot find one that I like. I am looking for a replacement for my S&W Mdl 642; in today's world, I have reached the conclusion 5 rounds is not enough. Right now, as it gets colder, I'm working with a P239. It fits in the front pants pocket of my somewhat baggy khaki's, with the DeStantis pocket holster. It also fits in a jacket pocket. Heavier than most of the guns you have mentioned, it carries only 9 rounds of 9mm, but has the top three characteristics I want in a gun: reliable, reliable, and reliable. Which a lot of short-stroke, double-spring, lightweight pocket autos cannot claim to be. It also is very accurate and has mild recoil. No safety, but a great decocker. And eats any kind of ammo I can find for it, including GDHP and Golden Saber. My goal is to stay under 1100 fps, perhaps by using a somewhat heavier bullet, to avoid bullets that break the sound barrier (and the crack that goes with it) since I war-game that I will not have earmuffs or earplugs if I ever need to use it.
I don't know of any standard pressure 147gr 9mm rounds that are more than 990 fps, and out of a shorter pocket pistol barrel I'm betting there aren't any std pressure cartridges out there that get a bullet going faster than 990 period.
Tomac
Member
stogiegila,
If you find the Kahr's recoil excessive, a Hogue Handall Jr (like the one on my wife's P380 in the pic) makes a big difference in comfort.
Tomac
If you find the Kahr's recoil excessive, a Hogue Handall Jr (like the one on my wife's P380 in the pic) makes a big difference in comfort.
Tomac
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