ChefJeff1
Member
Just wondering, does anyone load a pointy bullet in their 30-30 to be their first shot. No fear of magazine detonation if the round is chambered right? I'm just thinking of this as a hunting application.
Pointy bullets and the 30-30
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chevyforlife21
Member
thats pretty dangerous cuse what if you mix the rounds up
countertop
Member
I use Hornady Leverevolution bullets with MUCH success. No sense taking the risk on something thats been universally known to be dumb as poop when Hornady has developed a bullet that not only has a pointy tip but is in every sense far superior to any other .30-30 round you could find.
Nicodemus38
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depends on what rifle your using. if you have the lovely winchester design with the internal box magazine, pointy bullets are fine. if you have the standard tube magazine, pointy bullets not so good.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Oh, yes.
Yes, this works, but you also have to be really careful about OAL. Most spitzer (pointy) bullets are a lot longer than their RN bretheren and make the OAL of the finished cartridge a lot longer than the max. Once you exceed the max OAL for a standard 30-30 round, the elevator in the levergun won't lift the cartridge and you've effectively jammed up the rifle solid.
Asherdan
Member
"It could happen" going on memory from what I've read.
One in the chamber and one in the chute is a viable way to go.
One in the chamber and one in the chute is a viable way to go.
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
not that I would try it but if the primer was the harder-to-ignite military type intended for semi-autos with floating firing pin could this be safe?
I'm thinking this would be safe - handloads with those primers. CCI 34's is one IIRC.
I'm thinking this would be safe - handloads with those primers. CCI 34's is one IIRC.
MCgunner
Member
I load either a 140 Barnes or,.my preference for deer, a Nosler 150 Ballistic Tip in .30-30. I ain't worried about it since it's in a 12" Contender and it gives me 200 yards effective range. Blows away factory flat point or round nose. My only lever gun is a .357 Magnum. The OAL won't allow it to work through a Marlin, anyway, tried it in my son-in-law's.
Ben Shepherd
Member
Continued from this thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=473760 which was closed and redirected here-
I'm not saying that The Bushmaster is wrong, but a note on the Hornady leverevolution slugs in 30-30:
I've shot them at paper with a scoped 30-30 out to 300 yards. They do well for me, staying within a 6" pie plate easily. With iron sights? I'd still stay within 200 yards max, and it best be a shot under perfect conditions from a good rest at that. I will also note that past 200 yards, a balistiplex or similar reticule comes in very handy.........
Even with the spitzer front end, the Hornady load still has to play within the design parameters of the 30-30 cartridge, i.e moderate pressure with the subsequent lower veloicities vs a 308/30-06, etc. The whole purpose of the big magnums is to shoot flatter/faster, not to hit harder. In this regard, a 30-30 is still a 30-30 regardless of what slug is in the case mouth.
Were it me hunting with them? Even scoped, I'd limit my shots on live game to 200 yards, until I've taken a few animals and have real world experience with how they preform.
I'm not saying that The Bushmaster is wrong, but a note on the Hornady leverevolution slugs in 30-30:
I've shot them at paper with a scoped 30-30 out to 300 yards. They do well for me, staying within a 6" pie plate easily. With iron sights? I'd still stay within 200 yards max, and it best be a shot under perfect conditions from a good rest at that. I will also note that past 200 yards, a balistiplex or similar reticule comes in very handy.........
Even with the spitzer front end, the Hornady load still has to play within the design parameters of the 30-30 cartridge, i.e moderate pressure with the subsequent lower veloicities vs a 308/30-06, etc. The whole purpose of the big magnums is to shoot flatter/faster, not to hit harder. In this regard, a 30-30 is still a 30-30 regardless of what slug is in the case mouth.
Were it me hunting with them? Even scoped, I'd limit my shots on live game to 200 yards, until I've taken a few animals and have real world experience with how they preform.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Sure, I WOULD if I had dies for .30-30:
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9274578
No magazines to create the danger.
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9274578
No magazines to create the danger.
MCgunner
Member
I bought a Savage M340 bolt gun when I was a kid, sold it about 20 years ago. It was an accurate gun for a cheap one, sort of Savage's answer, at the time, for the Remington 788. Mine was in .30-30 and it was a box magazine bolt action rifle.
Nicodemus38
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the pointy bullet in a tube magazine is real. it was realistic that when Remington arms developed the model 14 and model 141 pump rifles, they used a realy screwy tube magazine that angled the cartrdiges off center so no bullet point touched the primer of the previously loaded cartridge. however that tube magazine really mangled the bullets up bad.
OP
OP
ChefJeff1
Member
Thanks for the replies, but just to clarify. I'm not talking about loading pointy bullets in the magazine, just 1 in the chamber as that's the one that counts most. After chambering the pointy one, i would load the tube magazine with fn or rn bullets that shoot fine with the sights. It's in a 336.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Two different types of bullets could result in two different points of impact.
MCgunner
Member
There, I fixed it for ya.
jimmyraythomason
Member
I really don't see anything to be gained by using a spirepoint bullet in a 30-30. Round nose ammo is plenty accurate and effective on game within the limitations of a 30-30.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Another factor to consider.
30-30 bullets are designed to perform perfectly at 30-30 velocity.
The same can't be said for a lot of spire-points designed for the 30-06 and .300 magnum.
rc
30-30 bullets are designed to perform perfectly at 30-30 velocity.
The same can't be said for a lot of spire-points designed for the 30-06 and .300 magnum.
rc
Most folks don't really understand why a pointed bullet can be a hazard in a tubular magazine or why Remington used that spiral indentation or why the number of rounds in the magazine makes a difference. So here goes.
Obviously, if there is only one round in the magazine, there is no problem. And if the magazine is full, there is no problem. But when the magazine has 2-3 rounds, recoil will drive the rifle back, while the rounds in the magazine try to stay in place. That causes the rounds to move forward in the magazine, compressing the magazine spring. When the recoil force abates, the magazine spring reasserts itself and drives the rounds back against the cartridge stop. Because of the upward recoil, the bullet points may no longer be lower than the primer as they would be in a non-moving rifle. So when the rear round hits the bullet stop its bullet point may be driven into the primer of the round ahead of it.
I have only seen one rifle in which that happened, and have seen pictures of others. The result is usually not disastrous, the magazine tube will be burst and split and the fore-end split. The shooter of the one I did see had no injury except a smarting hand.
But the accident is NOT limited to spire point bullets. In one documented case with a hot loaded .45-70 rifle, the investigation showed that the primer was set off by the sharp edge of a hard cast bullet; the edge of the bullet nose was able to dig into the primer.
Why did that sort of thing not happen in the old days? It did, but one reason for a possible increase is that people are loading heavier loads for those rifles, thus increasing the recoil.
How about those spiral magazine tubes? The spirals don't restrict the cartridges or cause them to turn as they feed. What they do is act to slow down the moving rounds enough that the possibility of an accident is reduced. And remember that the Remington rounds those guns were made for were rimless, so there was less of an angle as the rounds lay in the magazine, an important consideration.
Jim
Obviously, if there is only one round in the magazine, there is no problem. And if the magazine is full, there is no problem. But when the magazine has 2-3 rounds, recoil will drive the rifle back, while the rounds in the magazine try to stay in place. That causes the rounds to move forward in the magazine, compressing the magazine spring. When the recoil force abates, the magazine spring reasserts itself and drives the rounds back against the cartridge stop. Because of the upward recoil, the bullet points may no longer be lower than the primer as they would be in a non-moving rifle. So when the rear round hits the bullet stop its bullet point may be driven into the primer of the round ahead of it.
I have only seen one rifle in which that happened, and have seen pictures of others. The result is usually not disastrous, the magazine tube will be burst and split and the fore-end split. The shooter of the one I did see had no injury except a smarting hand.
But the accident is NOT limited to spire point bullets. In one documented case with a hot loaded .45-70 rifle, the investigation showed that the primer was set off by the sharp edge of a hard cast bullet; the edge of the bullet nose was able to dig into the primer.
Why did that sort of thing not happen in the old days? It did, but one reason for a possible increase is that people are loading heavier loads for those rifles, thus increasing the recoil.
How about those spiral magazine tubes? The spirals don't restrict the cartridges or cause them to turn as they feed. What they do is act to slow down the moving rounds enough that the possibility of an accident is reduced. And remember that the Remington rounds those guns were made for were rimless, so there was less of an angle as the rounds lay in the magazine, an important consideration.
Jim
MCgunner
Member
I can tell you from personal experience that 150 Nosler BT and 140 Barnes X bullets work GREAT even at .30-30 pistol velocities. I picked them for that reason. I used to shoot a 135 Sierra pro hunter designed for the .30-30 Contender pistols, but it's been discontinued. I really prefer the Nosler, though. It kills quick and gets full penetration with a good exit wound at least to 100 yards. Haven't shot game with the gun beyond 100 yards.
The whole reason to use a good BC bullet is to extend range. In the .30-30 you cn turn a 150 yard gun into a near 300 yard gun. That's reason enough way I see it. Now, that said, I have a .308 and if you like lever guns, friend of mine has a BLR in .308. If I only had a ..30-30 lever gun, it'd just be a two shot gun with Noslers. That's the way I'd go about it. I don't need, but one, normally, anyway.
R.W.Dale
Member
I concur! While not a 30-30 the cartridge used in my first signature link illustrates MCgunner's point.
6.5x55swedish
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My thought on it is that the 30-30 has been successfully used for "hunting applications" since 1891. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. If you want a long range gun, buy one. Why make something do what it isn't designed for?
MCgunner
Member
My question is, "why not"? All you're doing is substituting a decent bullet for the flat nose. Not like it's dangerous if you're only loading one in the magazine. Part of the reasons I have handloaded rifles for 40+ years is to be able to load ammo that I can't buy. But, now days, you CAN buy Hornady Lever Evolution stuff. I was loading spitzers for my .30-30 Savage M340 35 years ago, though.
I do have other guns, but the Nosler in my .30-30 Contender pistol is very accurate and effective and doubles the effective range over factory flat nose stuff.
jimmyraythomason
Member
I figure "because I can" and "because I want to" to be sufficient reasons to do anything. I wouldn't do it myself but that's just me.
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