Pointy bullets and the 30-30

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My thought on it is that the 30-30 has been successfully used for "hunting applications" since 1891. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. If you want a long range gun, buy one. Why make something do what it isn't designed for?
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Good thing everyone doesn't believe that way. We would still be driving model-T's and diesels would run peanut oil without modification if that were the case :) Just cause it ain't broke don't mean it is perfect or can't be improved. Stoner proved that with the M16 about battle rifles. If only he would have left it as a .308 :)
 
Good thing everyone doesn't believe that way. We would still be driving model-T's and diesels would run peanut oil without modification if that were the case Just cause it ain't broke don't mean it is perfect or can't be improved. Stoner proved that with the M16 about battle rifles. If only he would have left it as a .308
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No we wouldn't; we are not talking about progress here...we are talking about taking something that does exactly what it is designed to do and trying to make it do something different. It isn't like the progression of the ford from a model T to the town car... It is more like taking a model T and building it into a nascar in your basement...it makes no sense. If you want a race car buy or build one, but either way you would not start with a model T.

If you are doing it "because you can," why not make a longer tube mag so it will hold 100 round, or re-drill and rifle the barrel so it will shoot a 44 cal bullet etc, etc. You could also waste a lot of time doing any number of things that make no sense just because you can.

My point is that if you don't like the 30-30 for what it is...why use one when you can get something that suits your needs much better?
 
If you are doing it "because you can," why not make a longer tube mag so it will hold 100 round, or re-drill and rifle the barrel so it will shoot a 44 cal bullet etc, etc. You could also waste a lot of time doing any number of things that make no sense just because you can.
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Or, turn a siamese mauser into a .45-70 from hell or barrel your contender in a JDJ wildcat or neck and fire form .223 brass to 7mmTCU or turn your .30-30 into an Akley Improved or..........

Come on, you ain't that dull a person, are ya? :D You just buy factory rifles and factory ammo and live with it? :rolleyes: Every time I've ever bought a rifle, I've gotten dies for it, sometimes before I got the rifle. LOL
 
I do like the idea of the 100 round tube mag for my 336. Maybe, for nostalgia's sake, I'll just stick with non-pointy ammo. thanks, Jeff
 
No thanks

I tried the leverevolution in mine and I liked them.

No sense doing something stupid like using the "pointy" rounds in a tube mag.
 
I've always wondered if the fear of a detonation in the magazine tube has ever really happened, or if this is just one of those "it could happen" things. Has it ever truly been documented?
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First, Murphy will not allow me to ever load multiple spitzers in a tube magazine. That said, I have an article somewhere that tested this at length and found it impossible to get a chain fire in the tube without resorting to converting a tube into a test barrel to touch off a primer. Even then, only the first round next to the test fire ruptured. The tube fractured & spilled the remaining rounds unfired. I will find it & post more specifics.
 
Come on, you ain't that dull a person, are ya? You just buy factory rifles and factory ammo and live with it? Every time I've ever bought a rifle, I've gotten dies for it, sometimes before I got the rifle. LOL
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Actually I am way to busy doing stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ch-0VFwrfs to mess around with reloadinh brass... with the options in ammo today I see no reason to build rounds. Nothing more dull than hand loading IMO If I am going to load something it is going to take the whole can of powder.:D
 
First, Murphy will not allow me to ever load multiple spitzers in a tube magazine. That said, I have an article somewhere that tested this at length and found it impossible to get a chain fire in the tube without resorting to converting a tube into a test barrel to touch off a primer. Even then, only the first round next to the test fire ruptured. The tube fractured & spilled the remaining rounds unfired. I will find it & post more specifics.
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Agreed: Article or not. taking one gun and trying to make it set off a round in the tube and then saying it is not possible is like taking a 30-06 and saying it is impossible for a factory round to blow the gun up. I have shot 1000s of factory rounds through 06s and could not get one to blow. But I do hunt with a guy who has one eye and refuses to shoot any 06 because one blew apart on him.
 
Lever Es?

I haven't ever tried them but was talking with a guy yesterday who said he wouldn't use them anymore because he shot a doe with one and the bullet exited the same side that he shot her on. He surmised that the plastic tip hit something hard just at the right angle and flexed causing the bullet to make a U-turn.

Anybody else ever have this happen in a leverE or any other round?
 
I haven't ever tried them but was talking with a guy yesterday who said he wouldn't use them anymore because he shot a doe with one and the bullet exited the same side that he shot her on. He surmised that the plastic tip hit something hard just at the right angle and flexed causing the bullet to make a U-turn.

Anybody else ever have this happen in a leverE or any other round?
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Man, that's a tall enough one right there to hear in a south Texas bar. ROFLMAO!
 
Maybe a tall one, but it is pretty bad when the guy behind the counter at the gun shop is talking the customer out of the sale.
 
Well, I've never had a 150 Nosler BT bounce off anything. I had a .257 Roberts 100 grain Game King bounce off a bone, up into a vertebrae, then back down into the off side rib, but it didn't change direction behond about 30 degrees in its path through the deer. I'm thinkin' that would be nigh on impossible. Even if there was a steel plate surgically implanted in the off side of that deer, it'd just smash it and quit right there. I can't see it ricocheting off bone and putting my eye out. :rolleyes: It could change trajectory a bit, but not as to come out the same side it entered. Maybe if the angle was steep, like almost facing you, it could bounce off a shoulder then back out the same side, but any bullet could do that, not just a LE.

If it works like that BT, the LE bullet's plastic is jettisoned upon impact and it acts like a giant hollowpoint from that point to expand.

I can understand not having time for reloading. I always did, but then, I didn't want to "work" on my days off. Now that I'm almost retired, I make time for the fun things in life, but reloading is a rainy day activity for me, normally, if it ever rains again. :rolleyes: There are things I always wanted to do, but you can only fit so many hobbies into a lifetime I guess. So, you just sort of triage what's most important to you to do. I inherited reloading, been doing it since the age of 10. I still have my grandpa's old Pacific press and still use the .257 Roberts dies for his old gun. And, I'm a stickler for accuracy. One thing reloading does is tailor the load to your weapon. You just can't get that detail in over the counter ammo.
 
I very much doubt that the recoil of a .30 WCF would ever cause the dreaded tube fire. In fact I don't believe you could do it if you tried. The only trouble I can see comes in loading when you might smack the point into the primer in front and set off a smallish kaboom right next to your fingers. Otherwise even if it detonates in the tube the pressure will NOT build up and it will just be a mess--not lethal. But there are several rifles and hand+1/2 guns which chamber it and will feed spitzers fine. If it increases the performance of this fine round I don't see a problem.
 
What about a mag tube that stacks em' sideways?
Good for 50 rds maybe?
I know, I know. Why right?
Just cause.
 
the marlin microgroove barrel has a good twist to it. nothing from the factory specified if spitzers are accurate enough. the only known issues with it has been early attempts to get all cowboy action loads to stabilize correctly in it at cowboy velocity and lead bullets.
however the old remington cartridge for 30-30 varmint hunting was considered to be a rather good success.
 
I woke up this morning with the same idea, maybe if several of us submit it they will do it. If it can happen I think they will figure out how.
 
Cosmoline

If I follow your logic correctly you are confusing old muzzle loading ballistics with modern brass case ballistics.

A muzzle loader requires a tight seat of bullet to charge and the sides of the barrel in order for there to be sufficient pressure build up to propel the projectile forward.

With brass cased ammo the expansion is self contained and has nothing to do with how tightly the bullet fits against the wall of the barrel, but how tightly it fits the brass. The powder use in modern casings burns faster than the muzzle loading powders so the expansion occurs much faster. When you shake brass ammo you hear it in there because it is loose and not compressed, that allows room in the brass to expand.

To put it into perspective think of a ramset hammer for driving nails into concrete. It uses a .22 blank to drive the nail. The nail does not fit the barrel tightly, but has rubber fingers that hold it in place in the barrel. The rubber fingers are in no way air tight, but there is still sufficient pressure from the brass blank to drive the nail.

A brass load discharging in a tube mag would most certainly be more than a "smallish boom". It would blow the tube apart because the tube does not have the strength of the chamber backing up the brass casing.
 
cosmoline,
I bet that there is a sharper recoil pulse and more overall recoil (force) from the round being fired than what you put on a round loading it. I distinctly remember someone mentioning taping a bb to a primered shell and dropping the shell on the primer and having it go off. I'm going to have to look it up again, because if that is the case... the recoil is most definitely enough. This guy isn't the first I have heard of doing this. I could have sworn I saw someone mention it here as well, but I can't find it now.

Guess I was wrong, it wasn't here it was http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showpost.php?p=500954&postcount=23
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-41673.html Here it is.
 
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