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Police arrest karate instructor & kids in self defense class

Discussion in 'Legal' started by boofus, Aug 9, 2005.

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  1. boofus

    boofus Guest

    Just when I thought New Dork couldn't get any loonier look what comes up.

    http://www.dhonline.com/articles/2005/08/09/news/local/news02.txt

    http://www.dhonline.com/articles/2005/08/09/news/opinion/edit03.txt

    Apparently their finest knights in blue decided karate class students sparring with each other under instructor supervision pose a public hazard and arrested the whole lot of them.

    I can only imagine what they would do when they figure out people shoot real guns when practicing at the range... :scrutiny:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2005
  2. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    They were having a ninja fight vs a guy with an airsoft gun.

    The cops probably heard: "*panicked woman*Some guy is killing people with a machine gun and like 30 guys are trying to jump him! *Screams*"
    "Dr. Al Queda strikes again! We could be on the news! *grabs guns* To the batmobile!"
    Later on at the scene....
    "What a letdown. I really wanted to be on the news."
    "Well, lets at least arrest someone."
     
  3. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    Dang!

    When I was a kid, Mattel made *very* realistic SAA Colt cap pistols, with which I had lots of fun. Had little pretend cartridges with springs in them which shot plastic bullets. I used to shoot my brother with them. Of course, people weren't so effing mental about everything, back then.
     
  4. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

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    Were they not wearing uniforms?

    Pretty stupid. Makin me hate ya more and more every day my dear New York.
     
  5. unixguy

    unixguy Member

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    Not New York

    The Albany referenced in the article is Albany, Oregon. BTW, the instructor is the only one facing the ticket now-- the students have all had the charges removed "because they had less culpability" in the event.
     
  6. Rusher

    Rusher Member

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    I think the arresting police officer should be fired......once he realized this was a class....DUUUUHHHH


    sorry I just couldnt resist
     
  7. boofus

    boofus Guest

    Doh, I saw Albany-Democrat as the name of the newspaper and figured it was NY. :banghead:
     
  8. Fletchette

    Fletchette Member

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    Gun Control = People Control

    The government wants the serfs to be as defenseless as possible.
     
  9. chopinbloc

    chopinbloc Member

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    i'll ASSume they were doing things safely which means eye and face protection for everyone. odds are they were probably wearing stupid karate bathrobes, too. the people at the carwash could easily tell it was a class, so what level of stupidity is required to call the police, or as the quote suggests, SHOOT someone? i don't think the reasonable person clause would cover that one.
     
  10. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    Ooof !

    Those letters to the editor were brutal. :neener:

    Rick
     
  11. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Hmmm. Population 42,280. Not all that big. The newspaper article and the letters show that this school has been operating for some years, with this particular program not being anything new. And the local LEOs didn't know anything about this?

    Leaving charges in place against the instructor seems like a case of good old stonewalling, to me. Bluffing, trying to pretend there was a real cause for the brouhaha. Disturbance? What disturbance?

    I hope local folks give the mayor a good crawling over this...The kids' parents, I hope, will stay loud and long and raising a ruckus.

    Art
     
  12. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    POW!
     
  13. Joejojoba111

    Joejojoba111 Member

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    "Even though the students were using airsoft guns, if one of them had pointed it at police and an officer had shot a student, the shooting would have been justified, Delapoer said."

    Also if the officer felt a kid was going to point the gun at him, the shooting would have been justified. Or if the officer thought one of the kids was advancing at him the shooting would have been justified. Or if the officer thought one of the kids was trying to run away from the crime scene the shooting would have been justified. Or if he in any other way was afraid for his safety the shooting would have been justified. To heck with the public and their safety, their safety doesn't matter. Officer safety Officer safety Officer safety! Learn it Live it Love it! NOW RIGHT F'N NOW! pop popopop

    I don't blame the officer, he's doing what he's told as he was trained. He may be physically the one doing it, but he was put in that position by bureaucrats and police chief politicians who decided how to train him and told him what to do.
     
  14. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Okay. One moment.

    Let's look at that whole quote.

    I'm sorry, but I completely agree with that. Totally and 100%. Point a gun or a gun-like object at a stranger and they just might shoot you. Add in the fact that this was happening in alley, and a presumption (though a reasonable one) that this might have been an out-of-uniform training session, and you have a recipe for a potentially fatal misunderstanding. Heck. My precinct averages one or two armed robberies from urban youths in alleys per night. TELL ME that if a CCW permit holder had blown away a white belt that we would not be screeching to the heavens that this was not the CCWer's fault. Try to convince me of that. Mind, I've been around here long enough to know better.

    Now, the level of reaction to this event might be overblown, or it might not. It depends on what happened. Also, no one was arrested. They were cited. Still possibly erroneously, but it's not like everyone got a ride down to juvie hall.

    Me? I'd ask them to take the gun and ninja show back into the dojo. But I wasn't there, and that might have been tried as a first option.


    Mike
     
  15. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    I dont really see this as a gun control/bigotry issue. I see this as a more "OMG what you are doing is stupid and it can get you and the students under your care killed". Seriously, role-playing in public with real-looking guns is an excellent way to get yourself shot. Now, in my opinion a person has every right in the world to get themselves shot for being stupid however, the person who shoots them would have to live with that, which is why im A-OK with this idiot getting arrested.
     
  16. LiquidTension

    LiquidTension Member

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    I agree that if one of the students had pointed a gun at someone, a shooting would have been justified. However, after it is determined that they did not do this and were in fact training under adult supervision, there is ZERO reason for anyone to be charged with anything.
     
  17. Joejojoba111

    Joejojoba111 Member

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    "Point a gun or a gun-like object at a stranger and they just might shoot you."

    This is what the anti's all say will happen when people get CCws. They'll all start shooting everything. One guy will try to stop an armed robbery with his pistol, then another guy will shoot him, and another guy will shoot that guy, and another guy will shoot that guy, and OMG rivers of blood, the humanity.

    You initiate a confrontation you initiate it. You, not them. If those kids in the alley approach you and point their toy at you and say, demand your wallet, then that's a different situation.

    And it is not reasonable to say that it would be legitimate to shoot any kid that pointed a gun at any time at the officer or others, because for one thing the officer arriving in force with a weapon drawn and making lots of noise just MIGHT cause the role-playing bad-guy to turn towards the officer. Just maybe. Call it a hunch. So then this role playing bad guy is justifiably shot. "Hey look over here. hey *** you're turning towards me?"

    With a formula like that it seems there is a disconnect between official policy and actual practice... It happens often, and sometimes it's a cell phone, but it doesn't happen every time because not everyone is stupid enough to shoot without thinking.
     
  18. Mark in California

    Mark in California Member

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    Albany, OR Police

    My brother lives in Albany, OR. He told me the Police once surrounded a church because a door was open and they heard people inside. Weapons drawn, they attemped to arrest everyone leaving the church until it was pointed out to them it was Sunday afternoon and Services had just ended.
     
  19. 280PLUS

    280PLUS Member

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    I like the one where the girl says she's been studying with those guys for half her life and then you see she's 15...

    :p
     
  20. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    Out of curiosity what is with the "kids" reference? The students in the class ranged from age 17 to 45.
     
  21. boofus

    boofus Guest

    17-24 are 'kids' according to brady/vpc. As are 30 year old black males. :rolleyes:
     
  22. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Mike, well, that explanation may take care of a "what's all this then" investigatory stop. But an arrest? :confused:

    Hopefully this will disappear down a hole at the Prosecuting Attorney's Office (or DA or State's Attorney or whatever they call them out there).
     
  23. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Where does anyone get 'arrest' from the article? They were cited. I see no mention of arrest, besides the thread title and subsequent comments.

    My guess is that there is more to it than there seems, but I'll freely admit that this is my own past experiences coloring my opinion. I don't know what happened, but this has the flavor of 'more to the story'. Either way, we have, at worst, a group of police that handed out tickets to some people playing with fake guns in an alley.

    Really?

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=41832&highlight=shot+pointed+fake+gun

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=147376&highlight=fake+gun

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=145995&highlight=fake+gun

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144463&highlight=fake+gun

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=27512&highlight=fake+gun

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=16414&highlight=fake+gun

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=130505&highlight=toy+gun

    In each of these threads is an assertion (IMHO correct) by a one of your "antis" on THR stating that if someone pointed a fake/toy gun at them and they were CCWing, that person would probably be shot. No mention of robbery. FWIW, I agree.

    I'm mostly upset that I cannot find one thread that had several comments like that on it. Perhaps it was on TFL, bit i'm too lazy to go look. My point is this; playing with guns, even fake ones, in public is a bad idea. If you are CCWing and you come upon a group of people in an alley standing around one guy, holding a gun to the head of another, what are you going to think is happening?

    I assure you that my first thought is not going to be, "Oh, this is obviously a martial arts class practicing weapon strips." I have no idea if I would shoot someone or not, but it certainly starts to look like a viable option.

    Again, was the popo response appropriate? No idea. I wasn't there. But I'm pretty sure the martial artists were not very bright by doing this sort of thing in public.

    Mike
     
  24. scout26

    scout26 Member

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    .....Everybody was Kung-Fu Fighting, those kids were fast as lightening.....


    Sing it with me !!!!!
     
  25. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    :scrutiny:

    I was SO resisting that. ;)

    Mike
     
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