School violates mans rights in fear of another massacre...

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Here it is:
(720 ILCS 5/Art. 26 heading)
ARTICLE 26. DISORDERLY CONDUCT


(720 ILCS 5/26‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 26‑1)
Sec. 26‑1. Elements of the Offense.
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to
alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace; or

(2) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any
manner to the fire department of any city, town, village or fire protection district a false alarm of fire, knowing at the time of such transmission that there is no reasonable ground for believing that such fire exists; or

(3) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any
manner to another a false alarm to the effect that a bomb or other explosive of any nature or a container holding poison gas, a deadly biological or chemical contaminant, or radioactive substance is concealed in such place that its explosion or release would endanger human life, knowing at the time of such transmission that there is no reasonable ground for believing that such bomb, explosive or a container holding poison gas, a deadly biological or chemical contaminant, or radioactive substance is concealed in such place; or

(4) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any
manner to any peace officer, public officer or public employee a report to the effect that an offense will be committed, is being committed, or has been committed, knowing at the time of such transmission that there is no reasonable ground for believing that such an offense will be committed, is being committed, or has been committed; or

(5) Enters upon the property of another and for a
lewd or unlawful purpose deliberately looks into a dwelling on the property through any window or other opening in it; or

(6) While acting as a collection agency as defined
in the "Collection Agency Act" or as an employee of such collection agency, and while attempting to collect an alleged debt, makes a telephone call to the alleged debtor which is designed to harass, annoy or intimidate the alleged debtor; or

(7) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false
report to the Department of Children and Family Services under Section 4 of the "Abused and Neglected Child Reporting Act"; or

(8) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false
report to the Department of Public Health under the Nursing Home Care Act; or

(9) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any
manner to the police department or fire department of any municipality or fire protection district, or any privately owned and operated ambulance service, a false request for an ambulance, emergency medical technician‑ambulance or emergency medical technician‑paramedic knowing at the time there is no reasonable ground for believing that such assistance is required; or

(10) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false
report under Article II of "An Act in relation to victims of violence and abuse", approved September 16, 1984, as amended; or

(11) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false
report to any public safety agency without the reasonable grounds necessary to believe that transmitting such a report is necessary for the safety and welfare of the public; or

(12) Calls the number "911" for the purpose of
making or transmitting a false alarm or complaint and reporting information when, at the time the call or transmission is made, the person knows there is no reasonable ground for making the call or transmission and further knows that the call or transmission could result in the emergency response of any public safety agency.
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But again, the heroes of this thread would NOT be alarmed if someone put into writing that they should not be surprised if their workplace were to experience a shooting spree--and that the writer dreams about doing the deed himself.
No, sir, only a weepy sister of a blissninny would be alarmed at that.
 
I can't wait for the day hundreds of high school kids turn in "essays" like this.

What will the school do, kick them all out? Arrest them all? Dose them all with psychotropic drugs?
 
What makes you think such an organized event is going to happen with "hundreds of kids?" Oh, and for the nth +1 time, schools don't put kids on drugs. We can't prescribe them. We can't recommend them. If a kid is on drugs, it's because a physician and his parents decided that it was best for him. If a kid refuses to take any kind of prescription medication that has been sent to school for him, we don't do anything but log his refusal.
 
Oh for Pete's sake. Some of the content matter is a little disturbing, but then again so are the Wachowski brothers for the lobby shootout scene in The Matrix, or whoever wrote the screenplay for the last Bond movie. Nice torture scene, you sick bastard.

But on the other hand, a kid with a 4.2 GPA should know better than to write something like that in a public school essay.

Sometimes what's right isn't legal, and sometimes what's right will get you into more trouble than if you did the wrong thing.
 
as i understand it the assignment wasn't simply to write anything you want but to write anything you want and NOT to censor it or judge what you wrote in any way. much different. shame on the teacher for assigning a task like this and then calling wolf when the kid did what he/she asked. (with his GPA it is obvious he does what his teachers ask)
 
Teachers are responsible for how their instructions effect their students. If I as a teacher tell little Johnny "if you get up again I am going to let Anthony pop you in the face" and then little Johnny gets up and Anthony drills him, guess what. I was responsible for the actions. This teacher made a HUGE mistake, especially when dealing with a group of teens. She wrote them a blank check. It should come as no surprise that one of them cashed it. I would not have been happy with the subject matter, but based on the directions of the assignment he shouldn't even have been given a bad grade. Looks to me like he followed the directions pretty explicitly. Now the subject matter is not what I would have chosen for my class, but if I am foolish enough to open the door, then one of the students is sure to walk through it.
 
I can't wait for the day hundreds of high school kids turn in "essays" like this.

What will the school do, kick them all out? Arrest them all? Dose them all with psychotropic drugs?
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You can't wait? That would be a good thing in your view? Think twice, post once.
 
(720 ILCS 5/Art. 26 heading)
ARTICLE 26. DISORDERLY CONDUCT


(720 ILCS 5/26‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 26‑1)
Sec. 26‑1. Elements of the Offense.
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to
alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace; or
.
blah
.
blah
.
blah
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Lots of room there for interpretation here. I mean, I could be sitting next to Rosie O'Doughnut and get arrested for quietly calling her an obese wench if she pipes up at me with four letter word responses. That would be provoking a breach of the peace? Yeesh.

Look, I'll agree that even if the guy was smart, he might have been a little short on common sense. But arresting the guy and charging him with a crime? Fooey.

As a teacher, I might have been concerned if this particular essay contributed to a repeated pattern of warning signs.

But if he's been a model student otherwise, and this was just some one-off flakiness, then I would think there was some over-reaction here.
 
Mistake #1 = lack of situational awareness by the student. For a 4.2 gpa student, he showed how grades don't necessarily reflect a fertile mind. If my kid was a 4.2gpa HS senior and wrote crap like that I'd make him write a 5000word essay on "How to write a creative essay and use over 2% of your brain".

Mistake #2 = lack of putting it in context. This guy was not a disturbed student with a history of anti-social behavior. The school and police are way over-reacting, but what do we expect when we bitch and gloat over how the police responded to Cho. ... ... ... unless there's more to the story that's not getting reported.
 
If . . . unless . . . . I'll just say it again--you don't know why the principal made the choice he did. Maybe he made a mistake, or maybe he had insight you don't have. He was there and you were not.
 
Mistake #2 = lack of putting it in context. This guy was not a disturbed student with a history of anti-social behavior. The school and police are way over-reacting, but what do we expect when we bitch and gloat over how the police responded to Cho. ... ... ... unless there's more to the story that's not getting reported.
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Mistake #3 Dumb teacher teaching smart kid. Kid was also a Smart(biblical beast of burden) and deserved to get a smack down. Teacher could have called his parents, had him talk to a shrink, have him get up in front of the room and read his paper :)o Uhm, Ehr,,,that one can be very effective as a "punishment" for writing a paper that follows the rules but pushes the envolope as it were.

Don, you are correct the princapal was there and we were not. It's been a number of days now. Has there been reports from other students about his past bad behavior? Past lawsuits? Reports from other police/mental health, police logs anything that gives any further documentation to the belief that this was a valid threat? Normally by this point in time after an incident, the tales of school shooters being bullied, or doing bullying, prior behavior problems and weirdnesses have shown up. I have not read any.

Instead of a valid threat calling for a police response, could this have been a case of GIGO with extremely poor judgement by all those involved (Student/Teacher/Admin/LEO/Court system)?

NukemJim
 
Of course it could be. That doesn't justify four pages of screaming that IT IS AND SOMEONE HAS TO PAY OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!!!!11
 
In light of this whole debacle, I was wondering what Steven King's high-school principal must have seen pass his desk in terms of creative writing assignments gone psychotically violent.
 
Am I all alone here? I was not aware that the First Amendment covered a threat to shoot people. The student and the administration agree that he wrapped up his story by stating that, in the student's own words, "his teaching style might inspire someone to shoot up the school."
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You're not alone. But some of us don't think that it's LE's job to enforce decency. The real question is whether the essay was an actual threat, and the bit you quote above could be taken either way. In the absence of an actual threat, it's an internal disciplinary matter.

--Len.
 
Here's the assignment in question:
Assignment.gif
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OK, I think I'm on the kid's side. In his shoes I'd already be mightily irritated at the brain-dead assignment. They're demanding a stream-of-consciousness essay, which is the literary equivalent of asking someone with diarrhea for a look at his used toilet paper. In a sane world, we call that sort of writing "rough notes" or a "first draft," and throw it away without showing anyone.

More specifically, the instructions to "write whatever comes into your mind" and "not judge or censor what you are writing," along with the promise that "you can't fail in free writing," would be an irresistible temptation to prove the teacher an idiot: she didn't want "whatever" after all; she most certainly did "judge" what he wrote; and apparently he could fail after all. I guess the teacher would prefer if he had "censored" what he was writing. :evil:

The whole essay was a protest. In that light, the remark that her teaching methods could provoke a school shooting was certainly unwise--but the underlying sentiment is clear enough. He appears to be saying that idiotic assignments like that one itself are enough to drive a sane person mad. Maybe that's why I never attended high school in the first place. For smart kids, high school is somewhere between purgatory and hell. By default, my sympathy goes to the inmates.

The best way to handle this kid is to expel him. Then give him a diploma. Then pay his tuition at the local community college for two semesters to get him started. Meanwhile, his dad (not the police) should take him to the woodshed for his boneheaded move.

--Len.


[*] I was once asked to "use 'well' in a sentence." When my fit of irritation subsided, I wrote: "Well," said Mr. Well, "I think you would do equally well with either a dug well or an artesian well."
 
But again, the heroes of this thread would NOT be alarmed if someone put into writing that they should not be surprised if their workplace were to experience a shooting spree--and that the writer dreams about doing the deed himself.
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You must have a happy work environment! Jokes like that are made all the time. Working in IT through the collapse of the Internet Bubble(tm), I've lived through more than one "death watch" where everyone knew that closing our doors was only a matter of time, and the hot topic of conversation was who we thought would be laid off next. Cracks about self-or-others "shooting the place up" were fairly common.

One guy, after a particularly bad day on a particularly doomed project, announced to everyone at large, "I'm going home now, so anyone who's planning on going postal, wait 5 minutes and then commence firing."

Such remarks are unwise, but at no point was I in fear for my life. I do think you're overreacting.

--Len.
 
I just wanted to take a second and respond to something horsehockey said. He said that no one has the right to force sexual relations on his daughter, which is a correct and true statement. What he fails to mention is that he does not have the right to embark on a vendetta, and that the kid has a right to a trial by jury. While I can understand his statements about how the kid would risk life and limb, and while I can understand that writing an offensive paper and rape are two very different things, the fact remains: He has rights.

Further, The kid who wrote this paper is NOT protected under the first amendment, a fact I cannot make clearly enough. There have been school newspapers who have been censored in the past, and on the whole, they always lose the ensuing court cases. If he wrote this on a blog that the school happened to find, I would be right there along with you about his freedom of speech being infringed upon. He did not, and that is the big difference.
 
TimboKhan wrote:

>and while I can understand that writing an offensive paper and rape are two very different things, the fact remains: He has rights.<
************

Exactly so. I used the rape analogy because it's a hot button topic for any man with a daughter. I have a daughter, a granddaughter, and a 14 year-old step daughter...and I can promise you that if anybody laid a hand on either one of'em, my reaction would be swift and harsh...and I wouldn't be too concerned about his rights, either.

And that's precisely why I pushed that button. To illustrate that human nature often supercedes legalities. The prisons are full of examples. May not be the right thing to do...or the legal thing to do...or even the wise thing to do...but it happens when people are emotionally charged.

FWIW, I don't feel like the lad in question should be prosecuted. However, I don't have a lot of sympathy for whatever other fallout covers him up in the wake of his little stunt. It wasn't funny by any stretch of the word.

Like the man said:

"Legal doesn't always mean right...and illegal doesn't always mean wrong."
(Speaking in a strictly moral sense.)
 
An Arrest warrant is due to Tom Clancy using the logic used in this case.
 
An Arrest warrant is due to Tom Clancy using the logic used in this case.
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Nope. A thousand times no. nonononononononononono!!!!!!!!!!

Tom Clancy is an adult. He is not in high school. He is using his right to free speech to craft a work of fiction. He is not talking about himself. He is not even talking about real people. In terms of punitive assessment, his writing is as different from this kids as a skateboard is to a motorcycle. Yeah, they both put words on paper, but thats were the similarity ends.

Oh, and by the way, Clancy HAS come under scrutiny for some of the things he has said. The difference is that "scrutiny" and "disorderly conduct" are two entirely seperate things. Let me say, again, that I think the school overreacted. I do not think that jail time is necessary or appropriate. I don't even think that what the kid wrote is a "crime". I am not arguing for the schools response as it stands. What I am arguing is that the school was right to respond. Look guys, times have changed. 10 years ago, this would have been a stern talking to from the teacher about approriateness and that would have been it. Now, some schools are essentially forced to react in some way. This happens to be an example of over-reaction, but it is a reaction. Timing is also a factor here. His little pal that gave the speech would be in the same trouble had he given the speech after VT. Despite you conspiracy theorists that are convinced that this is just another example of the liberal agenda of public education, you have to get it through your skulls that schools are caught between a rock and a hard place. I can just about guarantee that if the right kid had went home and told his folks that this kid wrote this paper, the parents would have called and the situation would have gone out of control that way. Maybe it wouldn't have made THR, but it still would have been a big issue in that school.

Finally, one last word about the Constitution in public schools. You can scream about the first amendment all you want, But here again, there are tons of examples where the first amendment (among other amendments) is not applicable in public schools. You can't cuss in most schools. You can't wear offensive clothing in most schools. You can't freely assemble within most schools. You can't bring a gun to school and so on. As a parent, you have the right to ignore your childs right to free speech. If your kid tells you to F off, thats probably going to get him in some level of trouble, correct? Most of you do not encourage your kids to tell others to F off, and when they do, they get in some amount of trouble, right? You very likely don't want people telling you that you can't restrict or punish your kid when he or she says the F word, even though the F word is very clearly a word that can be used under the first amendment. Well, when your child comes to school, the school assumes guardianship of your kid. There is even a term, "in loco parentus", to legally define the relationship between your kid and the school. Simply put, the school has every legal right to punish a kid how it sees fit and in line with the law, for infractions of school policy that you might not only disagree with but maybe even encourage! This includes constitutional issues, and this has been fact for a very, very long time.
 
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