Police Officer shot, sword weilder injured, wife dead

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Sportcat

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http://www.newsday.com/news/local/n...ec08,0,6573296.story?coll=ny-nynews-headlines

Dec 7, 2003

By Daryl Khan and Bryan Virasami
STAFF WRITERS; Staff writer Shaya Mohajer contributed to this report.

December 8, 2003


Naked and covered in blood, Ivor Forbes opened his door to police officers before dawn yesterday, insisting he was God and asking to be killed.

Then, in an instant, after having just mutilated his wife with a sword, he attacked the cops, police sources said.

"He was covered in blood, yelling something to the effect of, 'I am God. Go ahead, kill me,' " said Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.

Forbes, 32, of 2199 Holland Ave. in the Morris Park section of the Bronx, charged the cop and his partner, who then nearly emptied her 9-mm gun. The shots struck the suspect in the legs and the officer in the chest and knee, police said. Kelly said the shooting of Forbes appears to be justified.

Both Forbes and the officer were in stable condition last night, according to police.

Forbes was charged with second-degree murder and criminal possession of a weapon.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg called the incident "a terrible tragedy."

Responding to a domestic disturbance call, police entered Forbes' six-story, red-brick apartment building at 5:15 a.m. yesterday and found the suspect's wife, Kisha Denton, 23, hacked and slashed multiple times and nearly beheaded, police said. They recovered two swords from the scene.

Denton was rushed by paramedics to Jacobi Medical Center in the Bronx but was dead on arrival.

Police said Denton's head was hit so hard that it bent one of the two swords recovered by investigators. The victim's left hand was chopped off, and her right hand was mangled from repeated hacks.

"He came down so hard on her skull with the sword," one police official said.

Forbes does not have a criminal record and the couple had no history of domestic disturbance or violence, officials said.

Awoken by a commotion from Forbes' apartment, a neighbor headed there to complain. The neighbor knocked on Forbes' door. Forbes answered with a wild look in his eye and did not say anything, sources said. In the back of the room the neighbor told police that he saw the woman crumpled on the floor. The neighbor returned to his apartment and phoned 911.

When the two officers from the 49th Precinct in the Baychester section of the Bronx arrived, they found that the second bank of doors downstairs was locked, so they smashed the door in.

When they got to Forbes' apartment, they heard screams, Kelly said. The officers, whom police would not identify yesterday, pounded on the door.

The female officer, 46, a 17-year veteran, stood to the right of the doorway. The male officer, 27, a seven-year veteran, stood off to the left.

Forbes opened the door with blood smeared over his body, wielded an object and charged the male officer, according to police. Forbes said: "I'm God. Kill me."

Once in the hall he turned on the female officer, police said.

She fired. Two of the shots struck the suspect in the legs, felling him. Her partner was also hit by friendly fire.

"Once again a police officer was shot but he's going to be OK," Kelly said. "A [bulletproof] vest saved his life."

The male officer was taken to Jacobi for surgery on his knee. The female officer was treated for trauma at Jacobi. Forbes was taken to St. Barnabus Hospital.

Neighbors of Forbes and his wife said yesterday that the couple had lived there for about a year and had never made much of an impression.

Aside from the couple occasionally kissing in the lobby, neighbors could not remember anything unusual about them, they said.

Staff writer Shaya Mohajer contributed to this report.
 
Hit by pass throughs???

Maybe, but more than likely the cop was hit by rounds that missed the suspect.
I can only imagine the shock and terror the sudden appearence of a nude blood smeared crazy guy with a sword would cause to a cop.
I mean, just how many calls do you get like this?
The blood soaked crazy dude probably scared the crap out of her and she just turned the pistol on and kept it running. "Spraying and praying".
 
Hits the crazy in the legs and her partner in the chest. At a range of what -- gotta be less that 10 feet. More range time seems to be indicated. And no shots from the other cop before he was hit? Why not? Didn't want to shoot the guy in the back?
 
So, say I'm standing with a friend, and suddenly a sword-wielding maniac leaps out of the bushes and runs at us screaming. I whip out old trusty and blast the BG, but accidentally hit my friend as well, wounding both of them.

What crimes do you think I'd be charged with?
 
The last NYPD study I saw showed that cops there hit their target 10 % of the time !! They're more interested in being PC than in training officers to shoot.
 
Demise, you COULD go down with Crim Reck, Crim Reck Causing Serious Bodily Injury, Pointing a Firearm (Loaded), Battree, Battree Causing Serious Bodily Injury, Battree with a Deadly Weapon, Aggravated Battree or even Attempt Murder. However, even in information state, unlikely to be prosecuted as was self-defense, whether copper or serf.
 
Situations like this where you obviously cannot fire on a suspect without hitting someone beyond is why the local S.D. where I live train to (when possible) drop down almost to one knee and aim for the bottom of the chin. Your partner wil get messy, but most likely be uninjured. I've seen them do the drill (they train on a public range) and the shooting officer can still move backwards in that crouched position.

It's easy to critique these things from the comfort of my chair.

Ryan
 
So, say I'm standing with a friend, and suddenly a sword-wielding maniac leaps out of the bushes and runs at us screaming. I whip out old trusty and blast the BG, but accidentally hit my friend as well, wounding both of them.

What crimes do you think I'd be charged with?

Nothing. Even in NYC.
As long as you're carrying legally.
 
Accidentally wounding bystanders is one thing that whips antis into a frenzy when they talk about concealed carry. I seriously think you would be doing time in places just like NYC, even if you were carrying legally.
 
From the description, sounds like the BG was in between the two partners. Terrible place to be. Not surprising the partner was hit. Sad he was hit in the chest, and the BG in the leg. Should be the other way around.
 
Has anyone heard this yet?

Link


When the madman lunged at police, one cop fired 14 shots - bringing down the suspect but also hitting her partner twice. The cop's vest stopped one bullet from hitting his chest, though another slug penetrated his knee.

Fourteen shots? And she only hit the BG in the legs? wow.

I don't blame her at all for hitting her partner. She was faced with a situation where she either had to allow the bad guy with the sword to hack her partner to bits, or she had to try to stop him despite the possibility of injuring him. I don't see anything wrong with having to fire fourteen shots either. I certainly wouldn't hold back against a guy with a sword.

But only hitting him in the legs?
 
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Clearly, though the lady cop is a longterm veteran of the force, she isn't a shooter. She might pass the qual course every year, but really, how hard is that? When I shot a NC qual this past Novemeber, I shot with people that really scared me with their general ineptitude. Granted, they aren't cops, but they armed. They passed the test. I wasn't impressed with the number of misses, even at close range engagements.

Were their weapons in hand or in holster when they knocked? Did they step back when the door opened? Did they think about what would happen if the BG stepped out into the hallway?

Having a raging BG get between you and your partner would seem to be a rather common occurance, even if it doesn't entail weapons fire. This should have been brought up in training, if they are serious about handling a situation.

Of course, I say all this without knowing the reality of the situation. I can easily see the lady snapping off a few wild shots as she backpedaled away from the BG. With the weapon just clearing the holster as she pulled the trigger, a nervous reflex, leg shots were probably the best she could hope for initially. That she didn't make more COM hits after initiating combat only tells me that she's an idiot with a gun. Bottom line, entirely too many rounds were fired at too close a distance, her partner taking the brunt of them, for anything but poor training/standards to be the culprit.

Personally, I believe police and security people should take it upon themselves to step aside if they aren't willing to put in the hours of training because they represent a very great danger to the people they are claiming to want to protect.
 
Having a raging BG get between you and your partner would seem to be a rather common occurance, even if it doesn't entail weapons fire.
True, but I suspect a blood covered-sword weilding-charging-maniac is a rarity indeed. Most "Knock & Talks" are just that, knocking and talking to calm rational people.
Personally, I believe police and security people should take it upon themselves to step aside if they aren't willing to put in the hours of training because they represent a very great danger to the people they are claiming to want to protect.
In that same vein people who criticize them should be willing to step up to the plate (do the job, getting the degree/training/qualifcations required by their state) or refrain from criticizing them. ;)
 
In that same vein people who criticize them should be willing to step up to the plate (do the job, getting the degree/training/qualifcations required by their state) or refrain from criticizing them.
Becoming a police officer should be a prerequisite to criticizing police actions? Preposterous.
 
:) Can't we all get along?

What are the skills that a cop uses every day?

Diplomacy. Persuasion. Psychology. Listening.

Which are seldom used?

Hand-to-hand combat. Shooting.


Now, we know that that second set of skills may one day save a cop's life, but how many times have you heard that many cops never draw their gun on the job in their entire career?

It may be easy for some cops to neglect their shooting and defensive skills, rationalizing that the need for them may be rare. It's the same delusion that convinces people that they live in "safe" neighborhoods, and that the police will keep them safe. Ninety-nine percent of the time, it's true.
 
Mpayne great post Sir.
Clap.gif
 
TBO, done it. And you're right, folks should know what they're talking about before talking about it. Where'd you get that clapping smilie?

MPayne, diplomacy and verbal judo, or the lack thereof, are just as likely to get someone killed when done wrong as poor weapons handling. Everybody needs to know how to best deploy any and all defensive countermeasures available to them. To ignore your pistol skills, because it's unlikely that you'll ever need them, is just asking for trouble. How many stories are there of recruits fresh out of the academy having to draw down on some lowlife or dying within a year of service?

I doubt we'll ever know what really happened or how, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that the male officer wishes they had practiced with those pistols just a tad more.
 
Like I've said a million times, we need to worry a lot less about "overpenetration" and a lot more about hitting what we're aiming at. One shot from a proper short rifle would have settled this guy's hash forever.
 
14?

she didn't have time to change mags?

incompetency can only be called incompetency.

tbo, admit it when an incompetent shows their lack of training and dedication to purpose.

there is no excuse for a shooting like this.
 
"I mean, just how many calls do you get like this?"
An interesting link provided by the API list.
Answer: Far more often than I would have thought. :what:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/Fringe.htm

"....how many times have you heard that many cops never draw their gun on the job in their entire career?"
I have heard this for years, but always wondered about it. I would have to say that on PD in the city where I work the answer would be zero. It might be more applicable to wonder how many weeks it has been since they drew their weapon. The fastest gun is the one that is already in your hand. To me, you would be a fool to enter any potentially deadly situation with your wepon holstered.
 
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