Police question -- Police asking for ID in VA

[GE-Mini-Gun]

The end of the month? What kind of Gestapo is this? I think that means that most of the out-of-date stuff will be nearly a month out of date. No chance at all to nail some mouthy motorist for a sticker that expired yesterday.

Tags, inspection, license expire at the end of the month and some of the police will not give any leeway. I guess their reasoning is you’ve had a month to get it done and giving you another day or two is not going to do it. I can understand the tags expiring because who looks at their tags? However I can not see it inspection sticker, damn thing is in the middle of the front window. In the 30 plus years I’ve lived here, I think I’ve been through about 6 road checks.

 

[BluesBear]

Soooo, there you areâ„¢, driving down State Route 69 on your way home from picking up a case of fresh cider from the Dicken's fruit stand.

It a beautiful day. The air is crisp and clean. The bird are racing back and forth above. The clouds are high and puffy and of the purest white.
The sun is high in a bright blue sky and it warms your elbow hanging out the open window. Rockin' In The USA is blasting out of your Alpine at just the perfect volume. Those new tires you put on your car last week really hold the road and with the new shocks and alignment your old car seems new again and you've forgotten just how much fun it can be to drive.

You're the only car within a half mile and the air rushing through the car is exilerating.

Then you notice some flickering white lights behind you. They're getting closer. Then you notice blue and red lights spinning above them and you're reminded of those disco lights at that frat party way back in
HOLYCOWI'MDOINGNINETYFREAKINTHREEMILESPERHOURINASIXTYDAMNFIVEZONE!!! Your foot pops off the gas pedal like it just stepped on a porcupine in a cactus patch.

Oh shoot! My ole lady's gonna kick my butt. This is gonna cost me a fortune.

You slow down and dutifully pull over to the side of the road.

A tall young officer who doesn't look old enough to shave waks up to your windows and in a firm but non-threatening voice says. "Good afternoon Sir. May I see your license and registration Sir?"

He cautiously looks inside your car as you fumble with your wallet. He slightly shifts his weight as you reach over into the glove compartment for that little red pouch your insurance agent gave you that holds your registration, emissions certificate and proof of insurance card.

He glances at it as you hand it to him and he asks in a somewhat softer voice, "How are you today sir? Is everything OK?"

You answer something to the effect that, "Yeah I was just heading home from the market and just wasn't paying attention to my speedometer."

The young officer, (damn are they getting them straight out of junior high?) says, "Wait right here sir, I'll be right back."

You look at your watch and wonder how long is this gonna take and how much is it gonna cost you. Twenty-eight miles over the posted limit. That's serious! The fine! Yikes it'll be HUGE.

He slides back into his cruiser with those really bright lights flashing all over the place. Hells Bellsâ„¢ the Vegas Strip ain't got that many bright lights!
Three cars pass, one is a station wagon putt-putting by in slow motion with seven kids all pressing their little chocolate smeared faces against the window staring at YOU! Why two of those little heatherens were LAUGHING!
You notice the officer glance back and forth between you and his display terminal, you even think you seen him pick up his radio mic for a few seconds.

Twenty-eight miles over the limit. They can pull my license. They can arrest me and impound my car!

After finding out that you are NOT the reincarnation of Jack the Ripper and that NCIC had no outstanding information about you the officer returns and hands you your ID and paperwork.

He then leans over just to look into your face one more time as he makes his final desicion. "Sir, you do realize you were going kinda fast don't you?" You, of course, nod your head like an Edgar Martinez doll. "Now I should write you a ticket for that but I'm just gonna give you a warning this time."

"But you just gotta watch your speed. We had a car just a week or so ago that hit a big ol' deer running across the highway just around that big curve up there. It was an awful mess. So you just drive careful now sir, OK?"

You catch your breath and say, Thank you Occifer I'll be real careful. Thank you so much. You have a nice day too. Bye.

He then goes back to his car and waits with his rear lights still flashing to make sure you safely get back out into the driving lane. Which of course takes entirely too long since you are still afraid of steppin' on that porcupine. He even sits there just a few seconds longer to let you get more distance between you.

You stare at your speedometer as it reaches and hovers at sixty-three miles per hour. Then you glance at your watch. Dang if that wasn't the longest seven minutes of your life.

Happy ending? Yeah this time. Why?
Didn't you deserve a ticket? Hell yes you did. But are you mad because you didn't get one? Not unless you're a moron you're not.

Are you glad that the officer used his power of discretion?

That after performing a brief check he made the snap decision and determined to his own satisfaction that you were not a threat to national security, nor a danger to yourself or anyone else. In his mind he determined that you were simply an average Yob who just lost track of your speed on an open road. The fact that he, after interacting with you for LESS than sixty seconds, more than likely did not get up that morning with the intent of going out and committing a crime. That your intention when you got behind the steering wheel was not to see how fast you could get from point A to pont B and the safety and security of everything and everyone inbetween be damned.

The fact is that you DID commit an offense. You broke the speed laws. And he "ignored" those laws and let you go. Not really. The law merely states what is not allowed. It states how a person who does what is unlawful can be punished. In very few instances does it say that that punishment is mandatory. And just as what is not unlawfull is deemed to be lawful, what is not mandatory is deemed to be discretionary.

And descretion, as I was told by a very wise Police Chief during my interview before I ever put on a badge for the first time, is the single most important tool a Police Officer has.

He told me that it was more important than a gun. Because It's easy to know when you can and can't shoot someone. They could probably even build a machine that could do that he said. He said that it's easy to know when you can or can't hit someone. But it takes a lot more to know how and when to apply the law. And application of the law is the most difficult part of enforcing the law.

During the months of training that followed I learned that it's not just a case of "That's the law, You broke it, I'm arresting you".

If a ten year old kid puts a BB through a neighbors garage window a crime has been committed. How do you deal with it?
You can't make that decision until after you have looked into the eyes of that ten year old. Until you have stood face to face with the parent(s) and the neighbor. And you only have ONE chance to figure out what to do.

It's a lot of responsibility to place on a person.
If you think you can do it better, then please APPLY.
As a nation we need more good Law Enforcement Officers

But we are even more in need of good law makers.
If you can do better, RUN.

But if you can't do better. Then please just sit down and shut up.

As I once heard another more learned officer say to an indignant citizen.
"As a taxpayer you are NOT my Boss. You are merely my responsibility!"
And to me he said, "Duty is a matter of Honor. It's not a matter of Obligation."

It is my opinion that the Officer in the above scenario performed his Duty to everyone and everything involved.
Of course it was rather simple to do since the motorist wasn't a jerk.



Thank you and good night.

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

Kevin, I suspect the person you are referring to is a taxpayer, and taxpayers ultimately do decide how you do your job. I know you don't like that.

I have been waiting for someone to break out that tired old mantra. First of all unless the person I was referring to here is a resident of Waterford Township, NJ then his tax dollars have absolutely nothing to do with me.

Second of all even the residents of the township are not my boss simply because they pay taxes. I was hired by the Police Chief and the Town Council who are able use the township treasury as they see fit. If the people do not like the way they use the money they can vote THEM out.

Thirdly, even with voting out the elected township representatives there is only so much new representation can do as far as policing since the State Government and the Attorney General sets up rules and regulations as far as policing go.

Fourth, individual taxpayers are not my boss nor can they dictate how I do my job. That would be ludicris. If that was the case anytime I was about to arrest someone who paid taxes he could say "nope I'm sorry I won't let you do that." Give me a break.

If enough voters got together, they could have you wear a clown suit and carry a squirt gun while on duty.

I can't believe I'm even replying to this nonsense, but you're really living in a dreamworld if you believe that is the case. Voters do not make up the rules and regulations of my police department. As hard as it is for you to believe it, there actually IS some form of authority that has the power to keep law and order in a civilized society. The great majority of citizens in this country agree with that and support it and the same great majority are polite and courteous during traffic stops.

I think many police officers have lost sight of the fact that they work for us. Every power you have is granted by the people you are supposed to be serving, and they have every right to tell you how to do your job.

This is a perfect quote right here because it shows exactly what your problem is with law enforcement. You can't stand authority whatsoever. You have to say how YOU are in control and can tell US what to do. I could have guessed that from the get go, but it's much nicer to see you spell it out in your own words. So again I will reiterate, just because I get paid with tax dollars does not mean each and every individual tax payer is my boss. If you feel so strongly about that then you should buy your own island and move there.

This very thread proves my point. All I did was give a simple piece of advice on dealing with people and to be courteous to them to expect the same in response. I was very polite and never authoritative but of course that didn't matter. Some, including yourself, had to turn it into a "you work for me and you can't tell me what to do" arguement. Along with saying how all us cops have an attitude and have nothing better to do but bother you. All I can say is get over it or move away because the system is not going to change.

 

[Big Gay Al]

It is my opinion that the Officer in the above scenario performed his Duty to everyone and everything involved.

YES!!!! I agree 110%!!

 

[lostone1413]

Not many years ago in Illinois when their was a party change also a change of policeman and fireman.I knew allot of both who got their job through the politicians to.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Kevin, I don't think our discussion is going anywhere, and it hasn't for several posts now...

Whether you want it to be true or not, the people of your township ultimately do direct your activities; not directly, but through politics. At least thats how it works here in GA. If I don't like what the deputies are doing, and the sheriff doesn't fix it, I will vote for someone who will.

I know no individual citizen can tell you what to do. But your job exists to serve them, not them to serve you.

Anyway, I consider the discussion we have had insightful, and not unexpected. I apologize if I offended you, that was not my intention.

 

[River Wraith]

Riiiiiiiiiiiight...I've never heard of ANYONE foing 28 miles over the limit and not getting a ticket.

 

[Big Gay Al]

Actually, I was going 30 over, and didn't get a ticket. Of course, it was like 3:00AM and he and I were the only two on the highway.

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

Riiiiiiiiiiiight...I've never heard of ANYONE foing 28 miles over the limit and not getting a ticket.

A guy on my squad pulled someone over for doing 36 MPH over the limit a couple days ago and only gave him a warning. Just cause you haven't heard about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

Kevin, I don't think our discussion is going anywhere, and it hasn't for several posts now...

I concur

Whether you want it to be true or not, the people of your township ultimately do direct your activities; not directly, but through politics. At least thats how it works here in GA. If I don't like what the deputies are doing, and the sheriff doesn't fix it, I will vote for someone who will.

Yes in a way they do, and the people of my township approve of the way our police dept handles it's business. There may be plenty of flaming libertarians on this board, but the average person is not.

I know no individual citizen can tell you what to do. But your job exists to serve them, not them to serve you.

I'm fully aware of that and that is what I do. All I did in this thread was to give a bit of advice to those citizens that would keep them from being hassled any more than they already were. Some people could not just take that advice for what it was though sadly.

Anyway, I consider the discussion we have had insightful, and not unexpected. I apologize if I offended you, that was not my intention.

Ditto, but you did not offend me. I am completely aware that there are a number of people who will not like me or will take the polar opposite opinion I do simply because of my job. I don't particularly like it, but I accept it as reality.

 

[Big Gay Al]

There may be plenty of flaming libertarians on this board, but the average person is not.

I'm a moderate Republican.

Sheriff's might get voted in or out, but Police Chiefs are appointed. Unfortunately too many of them are liberals!

 

[JohnBT]

"As a nation we need more good Law Enforcement Officers"

Or maybe good Peace Officers. Just call me old fashioned.

John

 

[Art Eatman]

From the FWIW Department: On Christmas Eve, a Highway Patrol ossifer gave me a warning ticket for right at 70 in a 45. I was used to a "recommended safe speed" sign at our local Border Patrol check point, but the one I was going past in the non-check direction had a "real" speed limit sign. Oops!

, Art

 

[R.H. Lee]

I'm shocked, Art. I didn't know you had a vehicle that could do 70.

 

[dustind]

I know several guys, on my dept no less, that would not take too positively to treatment like that, and if they get ticked off it's not very hard at all to find numerous motor vehicle violations on the average car.

That is not discretion, that is abuse. It reminds me of that famous Ayn Rand quote.

 

[SkyDaver]

Once got clocked doing 98 in a 55. Trooper was going the other way. He hit the lights, and I stopped before he even got turned around. Told him why (coming home from hospital with medicine for my son) and that I knew it was stupid. Said I would b very thankful if he'd let me go.

He did, with just a very short lecture.