I have not been posting here lately for a personal reason; but when I saw an article on this shooting on a local NY news website I also then wanted to see how all the armchair experts at THR would react to the tragic shooting of this officer. So I stopped by and saw this thread. As I expected, a great number of you have made up your minds on this issue as it being a bad move by the cop who fired the shots, and as far as I can see some of you used, in essence, the following concepts to bolster your particular form of reasoning:
NYC cops are less than intelligent
It Happened in NYC so what else could one expect
The cop who fired did not follow proper procedure (I wonder have you been trained by the NYPD, are you aware of their procedures)
All cops are less than intelligent
Whatever you feel is correct is the way it must have happened (I guess because you are all gurus of some sort)
The News media are the gods of truth and everything they print in an article must be absolute truth when it makes a cop look bad.
Of course there are more concepts behind your reasoning that I could mention but you get the idea. Now - read the article below and rethink (if you actually thought at all before writing the first time around) about what some of you have written here. This article (
http://1010wins.com/topstories/local_story_028090932.html) was posted just about 1 hour ago at 9:53PM eastern time by a local NY radio station on its website. Sure adds some more alleged facts to the mix, doesn't it.
Jan 28, 2006 9:53 pm US/Eastern
(1010 WINS) (NEW YORK) An off-duty police officer holding a man at gunpoint after getting into a fight at a Bronx fast food restaurant was shot three times by another officer Saturday morning in a tragic case of mistaken identity, authorities said.
Eric Hernandez, 24, who joined the force in 2004, was in grave condition at St. Barnabas Hospital, said Mayor Michael Bloomberg.
Hernandez underwent almost four hours of surgery following the 4:55 a.m. shooting, where he was struck once in each leg and a third time in the abdomen.
The officer who shot Hernandez was taken to Jacobi Hospital for treatment of trauma. Officials identified him only as a 20-year veteran of the department.
According to Bloomberg, Hernandez was in line at a White Castle restaurant in the Tremont section when he was assaulted by a half-dozen men. It was unclear what precipitated the fight, which was captured on the restaurant's security camera.
A woman called 911 from the restaurant, and Hernandez — with his gun drawn — ran into the parking lot after his assailants, Bloomberg said. The officer apparently subdued one of the suspects, and was standing over him with his gun pointed when a patrol car arrived.
One of the two officers in the car "apparently thought (Hernandez) was about to shoot another individual being held at gunpoint," said Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. The officer then opened fire, Kelly said. Two of the bullets struck main arteries, leaving the wounded officer with massive blood loss.
Hernandez never fired his weapon, authorities said.
Tests conducted at the hospital indicated that Hernandez was intoxicated at the time of the incident, according to a law enforcement official.
Civilian witnesses told investigators they heard the patrol officers tell Hernandez to drop his gun, said the official, who asked not to be named because of the nature of the investigation.
The officer's father was at the hospital with his son in the hours after the shooting.
Kelly said police were questioning eight individuals about the shooting, including "most of" those who fought with Hernandez inside the White Castle.
It was believed to be the NYPD's first friendly fire shooting since Desmond Robinson, who was in plainclothes, was shot in the back by an off-duty officer on Aug. 22, 1994. Robinson had his gun drawn on a subway platform, and the officer mistook him for a criminal.
The shooting came one day after another officer died following a struggle with suspects on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Kevin Lee, a 10-year NYPD veteran, was part of a surveillance team that was tailing a group of men who appeared to be casing stores on Lexington Avenue shortly before 6 p.m., police said.
After being told by employees at one of the stores that the men might have taken a laptop computer, the officers moved in to make an arrest.
Lee, 31 died at Lenox Hill Hospital just before 8 p.m. Friday. The cause of death remained undetermined.
(TM & © 2006 CBS Radio Inc. and its relevant subsidiaries. CBS RADIO & EYE Logo TM & © 2006 CBS Broadcasting Inc. Used under license. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report. In the interest of timeliness, this story is fed directly from the newswire and may contain occasional typographical errors. )
I am not saying the 2nd article is correct or complete but it adds much more to the mix for those of you who were so sure that:
Thank God the cops in New York all know that no private citizen can own a handgun or carry a concealed weapon. He must have been a criminal!
what an idiot, you never shoot first and ask questions later
Yet another example of the "shoot first, ask questions later" policy that seems to be inforced by many PDs across the country. As a CCWer, I honestly am more afraid of being shot by a cop than by a bad guy.
What do you expect in NY, non-uniformed guy w/gun =Crimminal there.
More training again?
They dont need training, they need the common sense not to shoot somone on sight just because they have a pistol in their hand.
The nature of this story leads me to believe they didnt do so much as shout at him or look at the situation before opening fire.
VERY SAD , SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOME TYPE OF WARNING FIRST.
I am not saying the second article is correct and the first is incorrect, but I am saying that anyone who made an absolute judgment based on the first article was out of line. When you look at just two added sentences in the 2nd article, I think you might be able to envision another scenario other than one in which the shooting officer did not identify himself and tell the officer who wound up shot to drop his weapon. You might also think, hey maybe there was a REALLY good chance that Officer Hernandez, who was shot, did something he should not have done when the other cop ordered him to drop his weapon and maybe, just maybe, it was because of something that INFLUENCED him.
Tests conducted at the hospital indicated that Hernandez was intoxicated at the time of the incident, according to a law enforcement official.
and
Civilian witnesses told investigators they heard the patrol officers tell Hernandez to drop his gun, said the official, who asked not to be named because of the nature of the investigation.
I think there is still a lot more to this story that has yet met the eye of the average Joe reading a news article. For instance there was a 911 call, what did the caller tell the 911 operator about the incident and possibly about Hernandez! It also seems much more likely that the arriving officers may have followed proper procedure and that Officer Hernandez may not have followed proper procedure if the second article is correct. Do you know what is the proper procedure to follow when uniformed officers wind up on a scene and tell you “Police, don’t move” or “Police, drop the weapon” or “simply drop the gun”. Do you know what would then justify an officer shooting in such a situation where the guy being ordered to do something by uniformed police does not follow the orders. I really find myself wondering if Officer Hernandez did not follow whatever commands he may have been given, and if he did not follow proper procedure himself, if for no other reason than because he was allegedly intoxicated at the time. Give it some time before you fry anyone in this shooting, get at least most of the facts before you absolutely damn someone. Of course you can continue to speculate, but why not call it as such – speculation and guesswork based on what little you know instead of taking the low road. Can you imagine the psychological hell the shooting officer will go through, even if the officer who was shot does not die, and even if he was fully justified in shooting. I am pretty sure he doesn’t need your help in making himself feel guilt ridden whether he is guilty or not of a bad shooting, and he especially does not need your help at making him feel even more guilty if it was in fact a good shoot.
Whatever, it is a dammed shame it happened at all.
Best regards to all,
Glenn B
footnote: I kept calling the article I quoted in full 'the 2nd article' in this thread, and I was of course referring to the original post of this thread as having contained article number 1. Now that I have read that 1st post over a few more times I see that it was never quoted as being a complete article. Could it be that someone selectively editied the artcile and just placed whatever words he felt were important, or whatever he wanted to comment upon, in said post. I am not saying that Rick Reno did any wrong, I don't know if those are his sumations or a whole article verbatim, it does not really matter. Those who read that post and did not even think that it may have been paraphrased or edited made, I think, a big mistake if you condemed the actions of anyone based on that thread and your feelings alone. Maybe the best thing to do would be to keep both of the officers, the physically wounded one, and the psychologicaly traumatized one, in our thoguhts and prayers. Hopefully both will pull through this.
