Police Training Poll

[GRB]

Please read this article: Some States Put Untrained Cops on Duty athttp://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Mar05/0,4670,UntrainedPolice,00.html

Once finished, please answer the poll. As usual, discussion is wlecome too.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I have no problem with pre-academy rookies going on ride-alongs, even uniformed payed ride-alongs as members of the dept, with full-fledged officers. But I DO have a problem with them be armed and expected to act proactive, like full officers are expected. Having a CCW as a normal citizen is different. WE are not expected to be proactive and go looking for crime. LEOs are expected to go looking for crime. And to arms someone in that kind of situation without proper training is dangerous. Give them some pepper spray, a radio, and some cuffs. And always keep them with a full-fledged partner. MAYBE make an exception to rookie officers who already have a CCW and have undergone some firearms training. Maybe.

 

[Guzzizzit]

This is just another case of a Anti-Lawenforcemet Media reporting a story without the facts.

I love how they used wisconsin as an Example. What they failed to point out, is officers have 2 years From date of hire to complete Recruit Accademy AND AT LEAST 60 COLLEGE CREDITS. It's very common tho for a new officer to start working with another officer known as a FIELD TRAINING OFFICER (FTO). The FTO has recieved special training in how to train new officers, and the First phase of field training involves the new officer simply observeing the FTO.

Also, the Use of the Phrase "Basic Training" is innacurate and Biased.

 

[OH25shooter]

Cops, pilots, doctors, the guy who operates the crane at a construction site, the chemists, the drugstore pharmacist all need to be certified. The list is endless. We're not talking about flipping burgers. These are professions that involve a risk to life and/or public safety.

 

[peace]

Dummy Me...

I just assumed that if an officer has a badge and a gun that he has been trained. I would have never thought otherwise.
In Connecticut you have to be certified to be a security guard. I would hold LEO's to a much higher standard.
As a matter of fact I would hope that LEO"S would hold themselves to a higher standard.
JMHO

 

[Optical Serenity]

As has been said, doing ride-alongs and some other functions is perfectly ok. Not only ok, but should be required.

Long before I went to the police academy, I was doing ride alongs, and various other tasks for the department. I was involved in investigations and don't tasks that didn't require certification.

And training doesn't stop at the academy, you are then assigned to a Field Training Officer, and just about every state requires a certain number of hours every year to maintain arrest powers.

Being an LEO requires lots of training...most people are shocked when they find out how often I'm in training.

 

[CannibalCrowley]

Also, the Use of the Phrase "Basic Training" is innacurate and Biased.

How so?

 

[Thain]

"Basic Trainning" carries a strong whiff of military. It feeds into the whole "Police are nto civilians" myth.

That said, I would consider the college course work, some field trainning, good practical and theorectical testing to be the basic education a cop needs. If they have that, let `em hit the streets...

If they don't have that, then I'm worried.

 

[GRB]

The use of the words basic and training have absolutely nothing to do with the military in the context of this discussion. Basic and training - as words combined mean only that some has had training at the basic level. People in many sorts of jobs are required to complete some sort of basic training in order to proceed with those jobs. It is really a very simple concept to grasp, as is the other concept that this is not a discussion about military versus police. The initial post, nor the poll, even hint of such. So I would really hope we can avoid this becoming one of those posts about the police being too militaristic when this one, has NOTHING to do with that at all.

As for saying something like this:

Also, the Use of the Phrase "Basic Training" is innacurate and Biased.

As for the term being inaccurate or biased, it is not in anyway. I have completed more than one academy, and more than one basic taining course, the term is 100 percent apporopriate to my poll. It means, in essence, the minimum required training for one to have before they can go out and do their job with the basic knowledge to do so. Basic training is, in LEO circles, considered to be the training you get in your first run through a law enforcement academy.

I am not trying to argue words here, but only to explain what basic training is used in the concept of this post, and in law enforcement training. That police officers are not even trained in the basics before they go out on ride alongs, while able to carry out full duties, is extremely rsiky to say the least. That a department might expect someone to restrain themselves from attempting to carry out their full duties before being trained in how to deal with a high stimulation situation is ludicrous. A ride along for the purpose of that and nothing more may be okay, buit absolutely no enforcement or regulatory actions should be taken by any potential LEO who has not received a full course of basic training. Of course that is just my opinion, but I can base that on lots of training, and lots of interaction with other LEOs that I have had.

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[10-Ring]

Just like I didn't give my teenage son car keys & let him drive w/o some basic instruction, someone in law enforcement shouldn't be allowed out w/o some basic instruction in what they will see & how to react to what they will encounter...it only makes sense!

 

[Jeff White]

The sad fact is, that many places would not have any police if they required certification before they put someone out on the street. I don't thing anyone would agree that it is a good idea. But unforunately, in many cases, good ideas cost money that just isn't there.

When I retired from the Army and was looking to go into law enforcement full time, I found I didn't have to apply for jobs, people called me. Why, because I had the certification from being a reserve and then part time officer before I retired from the Army. Many small towns simply can't afford to pay someone while they go to the academy. In fact many small towns can't afford to pay a living wage. If I didn't have a good military pension and benefits I couldn't afford to work where I do.

That is the one and only reason things are like they are in the 30 states that allow it. And unless someone is going to come up with enough money to change them, they aren't going to change.

There is a lot that would change if the American people paid enough taxes to cover all the services they demand of their government. Unfortunately that discussion wouldn't be on topic at THR.

It's lack of money, not neglect that is the problem.

Jeff

 

[Elmer Fudd]

An excellent reply, Jeff, but I would argue that it is not so much the unwillingness to pay higher taxes that is the real issue, but the general public's unwillingness to take primary responsibility for their own personal safety, and a secondary responsibility that they have to their fellow citizens to stop crime where possible. They have an unrealistic expectation that they can outsource this responsibility to someone else, which is simply unrealistic, even in the most draconian police state (which would probably be alright with at least a significant minority in this country). Look at what is happening in Europe as a good example of this.

Imagine what would happen if the next time some deranged idiot pulled a gun in a mall and everyone in the area pulled a pistol and pointed it at the perp's head? That would be a society with very little need for police.

BTW, thanks for your past and present service.

 

[1911 guy]

Huh?

Give me an example of any other field that will allow someone to work in a specialized skill without training. You'll be thinking about that for a while. I've been a machinist, aircraft mechanic, sailor and personal security provider. These all require specific knowledge and training. I had to prove machining ability, knowledge and certs. for aircraft work, went to basic training to become a U.S. Sailor, and put a lot of classroom and practical work in to get a security job near my last duty station upon seperation.

Now I'm to be pleased that untrained people are given the power to screw with the lives and liberties of the population? Sorry. If a single working mom can get a degree, Joe (or Jane) Sixpack can suck it up and get some training.

As for college classes, that's all well and good if they have some Criminal Justice credits. "Basket Weaving 101" shouldn't count as making one fit to be a police officer.

 

[Lonestar]

Damn, When I was a cop some of the guys complained that we were getting too much "Post" academy training. I remember my first police type job was as a summer parking enforcement officer at the NJ shore, they still had you go through a mini-academy. You had to complete a running test, complete a red cross CPR program and do over 40 hour of training, just to walk (or ride a bike) around and write parking tickets!!

Some places are desperate to put guys on the street, while others have so many candidates they can take their time and train them well.

 

[1911 guy]

Some places are desperate to put guys on the street, while others have so many candidates they can take their time and train them well.

I'm taking bets on how readily this coresponds to the level of government accountability and "gimme a hand-out" mentality of the residents in the areas in question. The above statement can be compared to a canker. The problem looks bad on the surface, but is actually much deeper.

 

[GRB]

It's lack of money, not neglect that is the problem.

If lack of money is what has some municipalities put untrained LEOs onto the satreets, then it is truly poor fiscal planning on their parts. All it would take is one screw up such as: an unlawful arrest, a bad shooting, a car accident, some lessor violation of a person's legal or civil rights and it could spell out mega-liability, a liability that would cost more than sending several trainees to the academy. If a municipality cannot afford a police department, with well trained officers, then it should not have Barney running around with gun in holster and bullet in pocket if only because of the liability. Now just think of the person who gets messed over, or even injured or killed by the untrained officer(s). Is it worth the liability and is it worth the risk to the guy the police are supposed to be protecting? No way as I see it.

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[USAFA06STX]

I'd prefer that they had at least some sort of "basic" level training before being allowed to perform official duties so that in the event that something goes wrong, they have some sort of previous experience to fall back on.

I have no problem with them going on a 'ride along' as long as they are not able to, or expected to, act in any sort of official capacity while doing so if they have not completed some sort of basic certification process.

 

[Jeff White]

You're preaching to the choir. But I doubt anything will change. I don't really see how this is on topic here. It's really a public policy issue, not a Strategies and Tactics issue.

Jeff