Sorry, I didn't really answer the poll question in my first post. Well I think that 7+1 are more than enough for a 1911 to fullfill its intended role which is to break contact. You draw, fire as many as you can while at the same time running to safety. Don't even think about sticking around to "kill 'em all". I would even dare to say that if you have a large amount of rounds you may be bolder and tempted to keep on firing instead of doing what you really should do: disappear.
Poll: 8+1 in 1911, Is It Enough?
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Rob96
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I use 8 round magazines but don't top it off after I chamber. So in essence I shoot 7+1.
yongxingfreesty
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10mm in 1911 platform is 9+1 if you aren't too confident.
blackhills
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This is where your training comes in. 7+1 should be enough. 13+1 is nice. Although I have the xd45 and the 1911 i like them both equally.
LOVE THE QUOTE
As the old saying goes, if you can't do it with 7+1 then you shouldn't have brought a pistol in the first place.
LOVE THE QUOTE
As the old saying goes, if you can't do it with 7+1 then you shouldn't have brought a pistol in the first place.
Pistol Toter
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I voted 7 + 1 is enough, certianly ample. I own and occasionally carry a Glock model 21. This means that I am carring a 13+ 1, but I can't imagine ever really needing to discharge that thing 14 times and yet carry a spare magizine. God help me, if I was to ever get into such a fight. What is enough? I said, that I on occasion carried the Glock; most of the time I'm toting around a 5 shot snubnose .357 and feel well armed. As has been said many times the handgun is a poor weapon; it's just handy. A well placed .22 lr will stop an aggressor, but I don't choose to employ .22 because the target for it is quite small. The .380 and the .38 spl is nominal and for me anything smaller just doesn't get the job done. So any of the true "defensive calibres" if judiciously used / well placed can abbreviate a hostile confrontation. I carry 5 in a gun and suspect / hope and trust that I will not need all five to STOP an attacker. Seven plus one is enough, anything more is a desired redundency. Just my opinion, P.T.
7+1 is enough
7+1 is actually more than enough if you think about it.
A little more range time and soon any "spray and pray" type will see that shot placement CAN be achieved when the sights are used properly
If you can't hit 'em with the first 1 or 2 shots then there's something wrong there. I can see how the hi-caps can be a plus in a SHTF situ. however what with hoardes of brain hungry zombies coming at you from every angle. In that case the otherwise ridiculous Pro-Mag pistol drums can be all that stands between you and Jim Morrison's dinner plate.
7+1 is actually more than enough if you think about it.
A little more range time and soon any "spray and pray" type will see that shot placement CAN be achieved when the sights are used properly
If you can't hit 'em with the first 1 or 2 shots then there's something wrong there. I can see how the hi-caps can be a plus in a SHTF situ. however what with hoardes of brain hungry zombies coming at you from every angle. In that case the otherwise ridiculous Pro-Mag pistol drums can be all that stands between you and Jim Morrison's dinner plate.
10-Ring
Member
8 rounds of 45 acp, if properly applied, is enough!
THE DRILL INSTRUCTOR
Member
I agree that 7+1 is enough. Just one would be enough.
But I still vote for 13+1. The way I think, you always need the maximum amount of resources that you can convieniently carry. Hopefully you'll never need it, but it's always there just in case.
Just imagine if you are at work and the SHTF. That extra six rounds in your magazine may be just what you needed to get you home to your long guns. Whether you ever need it or not, it's there for you.
But I still vote for 13+1. The way I think, you always need the maximum amount of resources that you can convieniently carry. Hopefully you'll never need it, but it's always there just in case.
Just imagine if you are at work and the SHTF. That extra six rounds in your magazine may be just what you needed to get you home to your long guns. Whether you ever need it or not, it's there for you.
Jorg Nysgerrig
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I think about a lot of things in terms of probabilities. When it comes to being prepared, I think one needs to weigh the probability of events and then draw a line that balances preparedness with practicality.
Personally, I think that 8+1 would cover most of the things you likely to run into, but there is always a chance, however slim, you might need more.
You may never need to draw your gun in self-defense.
You are even less likely to have to shoot.
You are even less likely to have to shoot more than 3 times.
You are even less likely than that to go through 9 rounds.
You are even less likely to go through 17 rounds.
And this goes on forever... Somewhere, you have to draw the line, lest you find yourself carrying 5 guns with 6 reloads each.
Now, as far as a magazine jam that some people brought up... again, that's a probability thing. If you have fired 2000 rounds through your carry magazine without a single failure, how likely is it that if you actually need to shoot that you hit that failure. (I am pretty much guaranteeing Murphy will pay me a visit shortly.)
I say, make sure you have a gun, make sure you know it works, and hope probability is on your side.
Anyway, my point is that you need to evaluate the situations in which you might find yourself and try to balance that with that you think is reasonable.
I think that if you think of things in those terms, you'll find your answer. Good luck.
The same reason I don't wear body armor, carry handcuffs, or drive a car with a partition to protect me from my passengers.
Neither my job nor my personal life require me to confront people who may or may not respond with violence merely due to my presence. I do not enter a burglary scene on a regular basis. I do not respond to calls involving domestic disputes.
Most of us carry concealed. We don't wear fancy duty belts with all kinds of things hanging off of them. Keeping things light and compact is key.
Personally, I think that 8+1 would cover most of the things you likely to run into, but there is always a chance, however slim, you might need more.
You may never need to draw your gun in self-defense.
You are even less likely to have to shoot.
You are even less likely to have to shoot more than 3 times.
You are even less likely than that to go through 9 rounds.
You are even less likely to go through 17 rounds.
And this goes on forever... Somewhere, you have to draw the line, lest you find yourself carrying 5 guns with 6 reloads each.
Now, as far as a magazine jam that some people brought up... again, that's a probability thing. If you have fired 2000 rounds through your carry magazine without a single failure, how likely is it that if you actually need to shoot that you hit that failure. (I am pretty much guaranteeing Murphy will pay me a visit shortly.)
I say, make sure you have a gun, make sure you know it works, and hope probability is on your side.
Anyway, my point is that you need to evaluate the situations in which you might find yourself and try to balance that with that you think is reasonable.
I think that if you think of things in those terms, you'll find your answer. Good luck.
The same reason I don't wear body armor, carry handcuffs, or drive a car with a partition to protect me from my passengers.
Neither my job nor my personal life require me to confront people who may or may not respond with violence merely due to my presence. I do not enter a burglary scene on a regular basis. I do not respond to calls involving domestic disputes.
Most of us carry concealed. We don't wear fancy duty belts with all kinds of things hanging off of them. Keeping things light and compact is key.
The Canuck
Member
I figure that when you have a .45 Auto loaded with 7 or 8 rounds plus one in the pipe, its good policy to carry at least one spare mag. My protocol is stop the criminal, secure the area, reload & call the police.
As for shooting at stationary paper targets v. running armed individuals who wish you harm it comes down to training your skill sets. If I am approached by an armed indivdual I will be seeking cover as I try to stop the threat. Will I stand there and present? No, I will be moving FAST. How many of those rounds are going to hit? I am hoping all of them. Realisitically, I can't say. I haven't had the chance to do any work on my dynamic fire drills since I left the Army. There has been no chance for me to practice due to range conditions. If you want to have 7+1 be your magic number, be sure you train to that end!
If you need to have forty-five rounds of ammo with you for self defence purposes, you should have done the following.
1). Brought a rifle.
2). Brought friends (with rifles).
As for shooting at stationary paper targets v. running armed individuals who wish you harm it comes down to training your skill sets. If I am approached by an armed indivdual I will be seeking cover as I try to stop the threat. Will I stand there and present? No, I will be moving FAST. How many of those rounds are going to hit? I am hoping all of them. Realisitically, I can't say. I haven't had the chance to do any work on my dynamic fire drills since I left the Army. There has been no chance for me to practice due to range conditions. If you want to have 7+1 be your magic number, be sure you train to that end!
If you need to have forty-five rounds of ammo with you for self defence purposes, you should have done the following.
1). Brought a rifle.
2). Brought friends (with rifles).
Dustinthewind
Member
I didn't vote because I dont carry +1. A fully loaded magazine wears out your magazines that much faster, by stripping one off the top you relieve the spring tension, afterall your gun is only as good as the magazine inserted into it. Also by stripping the top round from the magazine you will notice that the next round will be edged slightly forward creating a more reliable feed. At the range I have seen more jams after the first shot from guys that carry +1. I carry Five in my six round officers mags. If that is not enough I will pull my second gun, for afterall the quickest reload is a second gun.
sargenv
Member
You mean you carry the same magazines over and over? If I were to carry, you can bet I'd be swapping mags out regularly or at least get new springs once a year. When I was shooting a bottom feeder in IPSC I changed mag springs once a year whether they needed it or not. An auto is only as reliable as it's magazines.
Personally, if I ever got into a situation where I was carrying and had to use it, I want as many rounds as possible. Better to have too much ammo than not enough. Unfortunately I don't live in a shall issue state
Vince
Personally, if I ever got into a situation where I was carrying and had to use it, I want as many rounds as possible. Better to have too much ammo than not enough. Unfortunately I don't live in a shall issue state
Vince
LightningJoe
Member
7+1 is plenty. Does anyone know of any self-defense encounter anywhere, anytime, involving anyone in which a total of 8 rounds in the gun was not enough? Bear in mind the automatic pistol's principal virtue is quick reloading (i.e. the bullets don't have to be in the gun all at one time).
Black Majik
Member
Dustinthewind said:
Loaded magazines dont wear out the springs, it's the constant cycling of the spring that cause wear. You'll do more wear shooting your gun than leaving it loaded. At it's static state, whether compressed or uncompressed it won't put significant wear on your magazine springs.
LighteningJoe,
Yes. The Rodney King L. A. riots. Several folks were trapped in th riot zone and had to shoot and shoot lots to survive. Some of those guys went through hundreds of rounds of ammo.
I'll bet you money that a few survivors of hurricane Katrina sould tell of some real shootouts too.
Yes. The Rodney King L. A. riots. Several folks were trapped in th riot zone and had to shoot and shoot lots to survive. Some of those guys went through hundreds of rounds of ammo.
I'll bet you money that a few survivors of hurricane Katrina sould tell of some real shootouts too.
Alaskapopo
member
I can't think of many situtaitons where you would live because you had 15 rounds before you had to reload vs having 8.
Popo. Just because you carry a 1911 does not mean you can't carry lots of ammo. Those single stack mags are easy to carry you will just have to reload more often.
Popo
Popo. Just because you carry a 1911 does not mean you can't carry lots of ammo. Those single stack mags are easy to carry you will just have to reload more often.
Popo
Autolycus
Member
8+1 is enough. I would even say 7+1 is enough.
When I had my Kimber I was content to use Wilson Combat 47D mags. The mags I used had a capacity of 8 each. I felt perfectly content with that.
Currently I own an HK P2000. I am content with 12+1. I really like the .40 S&W round myself.
When I get another .45 it will probably be the HK45 with a capacity of 10+1.
After college and I have a real career I will buy a nice 1911 and plan to use 8 round mags again.
When I had my Kimber I was content to use Wilson Combat 47D mags. The mags I used had a capacity of 8 each. I felt perfectly content with that.
Currently I own an HK P2000. I am content with 12+1. I really like the .40 S&W round myself.
When I get another .45 it will probably be the HK45 with a capacity of 10+1.
After college and I have a real career I will buy a nice 1911 and plan to use 8 round mags again.
Dustinthewind
Member
Black Majic.
Off the scope of the original thread but, yes cycling rounds through a magazine puts wear on the spring, but so doe's constant tension. The greater the tension the greater the fatigue rate and the most tension that can be placed on a magazine spring is when the magazine is loaded to full capacity. If you want to prove to yourself that you are right buy a couple of mags for your autoloader (you can always use extra mags) load one to full capacity and leave one empty, throw them in your safe and forget about them for six months or so, then check the tension on both springs. I think you will find the loaded magazine spring to be weaker than the unloaded magazine spring. I have inadvertently perfomed this task by leaving a magazine loaded for an extended period of time and found my hypothesis to be true, therefore I keep my mags in a constant state of rotation, changing out the ones in my carry guns weekly, and by changing out I mean unloading one and loading another.
Off the scope of the original thread but, yes cycling rounds through a magazine puts wear on the spring, but so doe's constant tension. The greater the tension the greater the fatigue rate and the most tension that can be placed on a magazine spring is when the magazine is loaded to full capacity. If you want to prove to yourself that you are right buy a couple of mags for your autoloader (you can always use extra mags) load one to full capacity and leave one empty, throw them in your safe and forget about them for six months or so, then check the tension on both springs. I think you will find the loaded magazine spring to be weaker than the unloaded magazine spring. I have inadvertently perfomed this task by leaving a magazine loaded for an extended period of time and found my hypothesis to be true, therefore I keep my mags in a constant state of rotation, changing out the ones in my carry guns weekly, and by changing out I mean unloading one and loading another.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Depends On Whose Hands The Weapon Is In
For me, 7+1 is plenty~!
For me, 7+1 is plenty~!
I prefer to have more and not need it then need it and not have it. So i voted for 13+. I do not feel that there should be a maximum limit either because once you say 7 is enough you leave yourself opened to be more governed. I do not feel that statistic's can predict my daily routine because anyhthing can happen anywhere. If you are ready and prepared you are more likely to survive and if you are not well, the outcome could be a bad one. Tunnel vision happen's and alot of people do not remember how many round's they shot in the heat of the moment,they only remember fearing for there lives. So if you pop off 3 and didn't realize wouldn't you want more there just in case.
I'd like to say yes, but you NEVER know what situation you will be in. I went on a cruise to the Bahamas w/ my girlfriend's family, and the Bahemian people are known to be very friendly and forward. This is true, but at the same time it is known to be a dangerous little country. My girlfriend, her mom, and I were walking towards a club at around midnight and we were being harrassed by 4 Bahemians. They were being very rude to the women and even said a couple words directed towards me... now when you hear stories about tourists getting mugged (and killed) all the time in the Bahamas you get a little freaked out. They left us alone as we started to near the night club, but for those moments where i was unarmed completely, alone in a dark place w/ 2 women, and would have easily gotten the s*** kicked out of me for all my money, ALLLL i could think about was "oh my god.. i dont have a gun on me.. even if i did how many shots will i need? ..i need to carry more bullets from now on..."
that was my only thought along with the fear of them doing something to my girlfriend and her mother. What if they pushed me further and action needed to be taken? What if they started beating me, and i was forced to draw my weapon??? Would i be able to wipe them all out while im on my back fighting for every queeze of the trigger with only 8 or 9 shots? lets say i kill one and
injure one.. that leaves the opportunity for the 2 good men to draw on me if they are packing. i've already squeezed out 4-5 shots.. do i have enough left for the last two??? that question made me rethink everything. I definitely think having more shots could only be a good thing.
I'd need at least 10 to be comfortable
that was my only thought along with the fear of them doing something to my girlfriend and her mother. What if they pushed me further and action needed to be taken? What if they started beating me, and i was forced to draw my weapon??? Would i be able to wipe them all out while im on my back fighting for every queeze of the trigger with only 8 or 9 shots? lets say i kill one and
injure one.. that leaves the opportunity for the 2 good men to draw on me if they are packing. i've already squeezed out 4-5 shots.. do i have enough left for the last two??? that question made me rethink everything. I definitely think having more shots could only be a good thing.
I'd need at least 10 to be comfortable
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