Which 1911 would you buy?
- Thread starter marineman
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benderx4
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IMHO, for the money, you can't buy a better 1911 than the Dan Wesson Pointman 7. (less than a grand) Shoots better, and better quality, than my last 1911, a SA TRP.
denfoote
Member
Springfield 1911 A1 Loaded, much like this one.
tomh1426
Member
I carry a S&W, Its my favorite 1911 and it wasnt that expensive.
I had a RIA it was great but in a different class than the S&W, I traded it towards a pt1911 which I like very much.
I also had a Springfield GI, it had to go back to Springfield to get it to run right and even then it was ammo pickey.
I also have a Colt series 80, Its a good gun but I think Its over rated.
I dont know anything about the others on your list
I had a RIA it was great but in a different class than the S&W, I traded it towards a pt1911 which I like very much.
I also had a Springfield GI, it had to go back to Springfield to get it to run right and even then it was ammo pickey.
I also have a Colt series 80, Its a good gun but I think Its over rated.
I dont know anything about the others on your list
I own one or more of each except for S&W.
For $1000, I'd get a Dan Wesson -it's simply the best 'bang for a buck' right now in terms of materials, features and quality craftsmanship. Yes, I have one.
Next would be Springfield.
Third would be Colt.
Don't need to consider the rest.
For $1000, I'd get a Dan Wesson -it's simply the best 'bang for a buck' right now in terms of materials, features and quality craftsmanship. Yes, I have one.
Next would be Springfield.
Third would be Colt.
Don't need to consider the rest.
1911 guy
Member
I'll tell you, then tell you why. Get either a Springfield or Colt, preferably a Springfield. Here's why:
With the exception of Para Ordnance (which you should avoid like the plague they are), all the manufacturers mentioned make a decent 1911-type handgun. The reason to go with a Springfield or Colt lies with how square the yframe is going to be machined. Not a big deal, unless you plan on having any work done to it down the road. Springfield and Colt are square, Springfield is less expensive for a comperable pistol.
With the exception of Para Ordnance (which you should avoid like the plague they are), all the manufacturers mentioned make a decent 1911-type handgun. The reason to go with a Springfield or Colt lies with how square the yframe is going to be machined. Not a big deal, unless you plan on having any work done to it down the road. Springfield and Colt are square, Springfield is less expensive for a comperable pistol.
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
I work on 1911's on a regular basis customizing them. Of the list you have, I own 3 Rock Island Armory pistols, as they're an excellent basis for a custom gun. And yes, all of mine are customized, mostly (Videcki) trigger jobs, reliability package and custom finishes. I have a 3", a 4" and a Widebody 5".
A gentleman above said the Charles Daly's are the same thing. They are not. Both Charles Daly and RIA get their frames/slides from Armscor and these are a good basis for a pistol, as they're CNC machined for very tight internal/external fit, but Daly cuts quality and uses oddball and typically badly fitted internal parts, particularly springs, on their pistols and have an quirky warranty.
The RIA's are extremely well fitted and have very well fitted barrels and barrel bushings, items that are very much human dependent. About the only weakness they have is they come extremely tight and absolutely require a 500 round break in to loosen them up.
I wouldn't take a brand new one into a competition, as the tightness tends to make them jam until 500 rounds go through them and break them in. After that, they smooth up, run and outshoot most other brands out of the box pistols.
Because they're well made and well fitted, they're an excellent basis for a custom gun - small internals need to be replaced by far the least of any pistol I work on. Their price point is low enough, you can have one customized for about the price of many other brands off the shelf badly fitted pretend custom stuff. And yes, there is a difference between gunsmith hand fitted and factory worker fitted when it comes to customizing a pistol. A factory worker with a shift quota can't fit as closely as a gunsmith, who is paid for the job, not the quantity turned out.
Colt - good steel, tend to be very loose and internals small parts are mediocre quality and so so, sometimes badly fitted. I've seen many base models with a plastic mainspring housing in the past few years. These are a good model to build a go to war gun, as the tolerances are loose enough they aren't likely to jam, once they've gotten a reliability package, a trigger job, replacement of any crap small part and a steel mainspring housing. Takes a lot of parts to get these to shoot some times. Parts you don't need to replace on the RIA's. Such as a barrel bushing, extractors, slide releases, ejectors, thumb safeties and an occasional barrel. Wouldn't be my first choice for a competition gun - too loose. But, because the prancing horse on the side, you can resell them at a good price once you find out your $350.00 RIA you got to try out just outshot your Gold Cup. (Yes, I've seen this happen, much more than once.)
Para Ordnance - Middle of the pack as as far as tightness goes, but make a good basis for a custom pistol. Prices are higher than the RIA's and don't offer anything much the RIA's don't in a 1911. If RIA wasn't available, I'd use their high cap version. I don't like the gadjet triggers they came up with in some of their pistols.
Rock River - Don't see a lot of their pistols come into the shop, so can't comment on these. Their rifles are generally excellent and their warranties and customer service are good for the rifles.
Springfileld - Good steel, fairly tight, but not as good as they were a few years back when they were made in the states. Internal parts are very inconsistent, sometimes badly fitted. I've often see pistols that need the plunger tube restaked because it wasn't done properly at the factory. I also replace some small parts on these guns with others while fitting custom parts. Overall, good resale value and good basis for a custom gun, but you'll need to buy parts that you wouldn't often times, due to variations in small part quality.
A gentleman above said the Charles Daly's are the same thing. They are not. Both Charles Daly and RIA get their frames/slides from Armscor and these are a good basis for a pistol, as they're CNC machined for very tight internal/external fit, but Daly cuts quality and uses oddball and typically badly fitted internal parts, particularly springs, on their pistols and have an quirky warranty.
The RIA's are extremely well fitted and have very well fitted barrels and barrel bushings, items that are very much human dependent. About the only weakness they have is they come extremely tight and absolutely require a 500 round break in to loosen them up.
I wouldn't take a brand new one into a competition, as the tightness tends to make them jam until 500 rounds go through them and break them in. After that, they smooth up, run and outshoot most other brands out of the box pistols.
Because they're well made and well fitted, they're an excellent basis for a custom gun - small internals need to be replaced by far the least of any pistol I work on. Their price point is low enough, you can have one customized for about the price of many other brands off the shelf badly fitted pretend custom stuff. And yes, there is a difference between gunsmith hand fitted and factory worker fitted when it comes to customizing a pistol. A factory worker with a shift quota can't fit as closely as a gunsmith, who is paid for the job, not the quantity turned out.
Colt - good steel, tend to be very loose and internals small parts are mediocre quality and so so, sometimes badly fitted. I've seen many base models with a plastic mainspring housing in the past few years. These are a good model to build a go to war gun, as the tolerances are loose enough they aren't likely to jam, once they've gotten a reliability package, a trigger job, replacement of any crap small part and a steel mainspring housing. Takes a lot of parts to get these to shoot some times. Parts you don't need to replace on the RIA's. Such as a barrel bushing, extractors, slide releases, ejectors, thumb safeties and an occasional barrel. Wouldn't be my first choice for a competition gun - too loose. But, because the prancing horse on the side, you can resell them at a good price once you find out your $350.00 RIA you got to try out just outshot your Gold Cup. (Yes, I've seen this happen, much more than once.)
Para Ordnance - Middle of the pack as as far as tightness goes, but make a good basis for a custom pistol. Prices are higher than the RIA's and don't offer anything much the RIA's don't in a 1911. If RIA wasn't available, I'd use their high cap version. I don't like the gadjet triggers they came up with in some of their pistols.
Rock River - Don't see a lot of their pistols come into the shop, so can't comment on these. Their rifles are generally excellent and their warranties and customer service are good for the rifles.
Springfileld - Good steel, fairly tight, but not as good as they were a few years back when they were made in the states. Internal parts are very inconsistent, sometimes badly fitted. I've often see pistols that need the plunger tube restaked because it wasn't done properly at the factory. I also replace some small parts on these guns with others while fitting custom parts. Overall, good resale value and good basis for a custom gun, but you'll need to buy parts that you wouldn't often times, due to variations in small part quality.
Well, I have two Colts, a WWI repro and a WWII repro, both outstanding.
I have three Rock Islands, all outstanding.
Don't know anything about Para's.
Rock River's are snob guns, IMO. Probably great quality, but I don't care for the trendy attitude that seems to go with them. Is there even a model under $1000?
S&W makes great revolvers, wish I had a sackful. But my experience with their autos, not so good.
Don't have any Springers, so that would be my pick. I hear much joy about the guns and their CS.
Almost had me a new Stainless Loaded for $600, but the guy was just too hard to communicate with and get a meeting set up, so I backed out. If he would have answered his damn phone or replied to emails.....if you're selling something, be available!!!
I have three Rock Islands, all outstanding.
Don't know anything about Para's.
Rock River's are snob guns, IMO. Probably great quality, but I don't care for the trendy attitude that seems to go with them. Is there even a model under $1000?
S&W makes great revolvers, wish I had a sackful. But my experience with their autos, not so good.
Don't have any Springers, so that would be my pick. I hear much joy about the guns and their CS.
Almost had me a new Stainless Loaded for $600, but the guy was just too hard to communicate with and get a meeting set up, so I backed out. If he would have answered his damn phone or replied to emails.....if you're selling something, be available!!!
Dave,
It was refreshing to read your opinions of the Rock Islands! There's so many RIA haters out there, it gets tiring to read all the put-downs. You're right about them needing a break-in to get limbered up, mine all run great after a few hundred rounds.
But my Colt 01911 WWI repro (Carbonia Blue) is by far the best pistol I have, quality-wise. It's very well fitted, shoots dead-nuts accurate, and has a beautiful finish.
My customized RIA GI is my favorite, though, it's also a helluva shooter. I'm a sucker for the polished, hot-blued finish!
It was refreshing to read your opinions of the Rock Islands! There's so many RIA haters out there, it gets tiring to read all the put-downs. You're right about them needing a break-in to get limbered up, mine all run great after a few hundred rounds.
But my Colt 01911 WWI repro (Carbonia Blue) is by far the best pistol I have, quality-wise. It's very well fitted, shoots dead-nuts accurate, and has a beautiful finish.
My customized RIA GI is my favorite, though, it's also a helluva shooter. I'm a sucker for the polished, hot-blued finish!
bluetopper
Member
Dan Wesson............no doubt.
DFW1911
Member
Springfield - my experience with them has been exceptional.
Charles Daly
Member
DaveInFloweryBranchGA said:
This statement is absolutely bogus! Charles Daly 1911's, manufactured by Armscor, use the same internals as RIA, are put together the same as RIA, and use the exact same springs as RIA.
I don't know who provided you with such blatantly false information, but false it is.
As for our "quirky warranty", all Charles Daly firearms manufactured after September 1, 2001 are covered by our Lifetime Repair Policy. If anyone who reads it can tell me what is "quirky" about it, I'm all ears.
tinroad37e
Member
Rondog,
I agree! Both my Rock Islands are 100% out of the box, but not my Kimber or Springfield Loaded.
I agree! Both my Rock Islands are 100% out of the box, but not my Kimber or Springfield Loaded.
Sagetown
Member
Thank You Mr. Kassnar for taking time out of your busy schedule to set us all straight on the manufacturing of your guns. That explains why Armscor isn't shy about presenting Charles Daly, Rock Island Armory, and STI as their partners of a truely quality firearm.
Sage
p.s. I vote for the Rock Island
Sage
p.s. I vote for the Rock Island
Last edited:
calaverasslim
Member
HUH!
I noticed you didn't include KIMBERS.
Too bad, you missed
I noticed you didn't include KIMBERS.
Too bad, you missed
gcrookston
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All of these were under $1,000, infact; the entire group was barely over $2,000:
XDShooter07
Member
I'd buy a springfield lightweight champion operator. Sweet gun.
HisSoldier
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Of the few you listed I would buy the Colt, swap out the junk plastic MSH and it's a very nice handgun, no glued in parts like one very well known cheaply made 1911.
But you left my two favorites out! Kimber and Dan Wesson. My Kimber has been an exceptionally well made handgun, I chose the model with no plastic MSH but if you buy a cheaper one with plastic you can swap the plastic junk out with steel or stainless for a few bucks, that's what I did with my Colt, which is a very nice gun other than the plastic. The Dan Wesson is an exceptional handgun for what they cost, why would anyone leave them out of the list, since they are such nice examples of high quality guns at very reasonable prices, and made in the USA to boot! We should make that part of the decision making process, if two guns are identical except that one has parts made somewhere else why would one sabotage our best industries by buying guns made in the Phillipines or Brazil? I personally will happily pay extra to help keep our native gun makers in business.
Another thing to remember, in many of the countries where handguns are made for sale in our great land the people cannot own or carry handguns, why support such a corrupt system when the guns made here can be owned and carried by the people?
The Phillipines
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1681178/posts
Brazil;
http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2004/07/22/brazil-implements-strict-gun-control-measures.htm
But you left my two favorites out! Kimber and Dan Wesson. My Kimber has been an exceptionally well made handgun, I chose the model with no plastic MSH but if you buy a cheaper one with plastic you can swap the plastic junk out with steel or stainless for a few bucks, that's what I did with my Colt, which is a very nice gun other than the plastic. The Dan Wesson is an exceptional handgun for what they cost, why would anyone leave them out of the list, since they are such nice examples of high quality guns at very reasonable prices, and made in the USA to boot! We should make that part of the decision making process, if two guns are identical except that one has parts made somewhere else why would one sabotage our best industries by buying guns made in the Phillipines or Brazil? I personally will happily pay extra to help keep our native gun makers in business.
Another thing to remember, in many of the countries where handguns are made for sale in our great land the people cannot own or carry handguns, why support such a corrupt system when the guns made here can be owned and carried by the people?
The Phillipines
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1681178/posts
Brazil;
http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2004/07/22/brazil-implements-strict-gun-control-measures.htm
Don357
Member
Taurus! Taurus 1911's come with all the bells and whistles from the factory for no added cost that you have to pay extra for on other brands, and you still only pay about half of what a basic "name brand" costs. Why spend the extra money on 1 "loaded" Kimber, Colt, S&W, Springfield, etc, when you could buy 2 "loaded" Taurus', for the same money? Dosen't make sense to me.
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