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Poll on teachers carrying guns

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by gopguy, Oct 11, 2007.

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  1. gopguy

    gopguy Member

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    Hi gang, Need help with this poll. As you know we had another school shooting in Ohio. Lets vote to let teachers carry. Thanks Tim


    Remember to cut and paste and add the WWW after the http://

    http://ktrh.com/main.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2007
  2. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    Frankly from the public school system teachers I've come across over the years, I'd say it's a bad idea.
     
  3. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    So the Second Amendment should only protect some Americans, but not all?

    What about postal workers? Convenience store clerks? Factory workers? Salesmen? What makes teachers less deserving of their rights than anyone else?

    I would have no problem with any of the teachers that taught me (first grade through grad school) carrying a firearm. They helped make me the man I am today, and I am a teacher.

    Teachers, nurses, retail clerks, mechanics, housewives, ministers, welfare moms, ALL OF US have the right to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Denying a class of people their Second Amendment Rights because of their occupation, income, political beliefs etc. is EXACTLY what the Brady Bunch is all about. They want to deny EVERYONE that right.

    In my department I work with two men and fourteen women. SIX of the ladies have their Texas CHL. Any one of whom I would be happy to have covering my back. Unfortunately, Texas law and school district policy prohibit me from carrying on school property.

    Now, if you want to see folks that should never be allowed around guns- go listen to a few of the conversations at a gun show.:D
     
  4. humorouscyclone

    humorouscyclone Member

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    Not wise...

    While the rights issue may have some merit, the sheer logistics of that many guns in the schools make it a bad idea. It would be a security nightmare. Count me as a vote against.
     
  5. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

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    humorouscyclone:

    You come to a pro-RKBA website, create a nickname, and post as the first "words" here:

    It makes you come across as being either: A) a troll; B) tremendously uninformed; c) just liking to hear the wind blow. You seriously need to do some research.
     
  6. humorouscyclone

    humorouscyclone Member

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    Protocol

    I am new and not understanding of site protocol. Perhaps I am a troll and tremendously uninformed. But I did spend 25 years in the classroom as a teacher. Forgive me for being new and weighing in on an issue that has been on my mind for quite awhile. I think it was Dwight Eisenhower who said "If everybody is thinking the same thing, then somebody is not thinking."
     
  7. bensdad

    bensdad Member

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    I firmly believe that the only people who should be denied guns (and the right to carry them) are those who would deny others that same right. O.k. now, Chris in Va and Humorouscyclone, head over to the local LEO and turn in your firearms. I hereby deem both of you unworthy to posess firearms. Neither of you can be trusted.

    You're either for us or against us. "Us" means everyone - not just an anointed few. :cuss:
     
  8. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    I too have spent the last twenty-five or so years in teaching & coaching.



    I think it's been proven several times recently that school security is already a "nightmare". All K-10 campuses in my school district require a visitor to be "buzzed" in through a locked door. This basically keeps out lost door to door salesman. A big rock can open that door quicker than the receptionist.

    Anyone who relies on rules, policies or laws to protect themselves forgets that the bad guys and evildoers don't follow the law. That's why they are the bad guys.

    I can't begin to imagine the terror, horror and sense of panic experienced by those students and teachers in Columbine, Jonesboro, Va. Tech, etc. I can imagine how many of them might still be alive if ONE teacher or college student had been armed and been able to stop the threat.
     
  9. sacp81170a

    sacp81170a Member

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    Welcome to THR. Lurk a bit and you'll find out whether or not this forum is your cup of tea. There are some folks around here with quite a bit of knowledge and we come from an astonishing variety of backgrounds. One thing that you will find true of this forum is that conjecture and opinion stated as fact are not well tolerated. That said, even then the discussion is generally civil.

    I agree that teachers carrying in schools presents a security problem. I would also point out that carrying in the shopping mall, at the supermarket, or in any public place presents a security problem in that one must ensure the security of one's concealed firearm. In that regard, what difference is there between these places and a school, a much more controlled environment? What sort of security problem do you believe having qualified, trained adults carrying concealed firearms would pose? Would it mean that they would have to be constantly aware of their surroundings and their personal space?

    I can understand that if you've never carried a concealed firearm that this would seem to be a daunting task, yet those of us who take on this responsibility for our own safety (and as a by-product, the safety of others) find that it quickly becomes natural. We are genetically wired to be on the alert for predators and other potential dangers, and as you shed the artificial complacency imposed by our dumbed-down society, you begin to wonder how other people can stand to live in a dream world of safety.

    I believe that the individuals in government (governments are made up of individuals, after all) who want the population complacent and passive aren't necessarily acting out of malice, but because of the usual human impulse to avoid conflict. After all, would you rather try to control people who depend on you for their safety or those who take responsibility for their own self defense? The former is the old European idea of nobility in a new guise, the latter the attitude that drove our forefathers across the sea to the new land.

    We give teachers the responsibility of molding and educating the minds of our children. If they are not mature enough to carry a firearm responsibly, how is it that we can trust them with the minds of our children?
     
  10. LubeckTech

    LubeckTech Member

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    How exactly would it be a security nightmare?? With some extra training for those who carry it would in many systems enhance security! No blanket policy could cover all schools at this point in time as we have too many idiot liberals who are making the schools dangerous places by insisting we provide an education to those who not only don't want one, have no desire to learn and don't want to be there. Basically we as a society have decided that the property owners of our nation provide a "free" (there is nothing free about it) public school education for the nation's youth. This is a great concept but when you FORCE, under the color of law, SCUMBAGS to be there against their will a dangerous situation is inevitable. Thank the NEA in part for this. A public school education is a privlege and if a student won't come there to behave in a civil fashion and learn they have no business there - ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!!!!!! I called them scumbags not "misguided little darlings who need extra love and attention" because evil really does exist but the liberals of the NEA and other groups refuse to recognize this believing everyone is "precious" and worth while if we just love them enough. Mean while the truly deserving students take a back seat as the resources which could better them are wasted!!! Recieving a public school education is a privlige and we need to make it easy to throw out those who disrupt it.
     
  11. Wayne G.

    Wayne G. Member

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    Um, back to the price of eggs in china....

    The link for the poll did not work for me. I got an internet explorer error message.
     
  12. tradja

    tradja Member

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    Looks like the "www" is missing from the link above. Try:

    http://www.ktrh.com/main.html

    EDIT: Whoops, looks like the poll has long since changed to a new question.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2007
  13. M_Olson

    M_Olson Member

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    theres a "." before the ktrh in the link that you have to take out. the poll is over though.
     
  14. Reyn

    Reyn Member

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    The majority of the teachers i have talked to about this WOULD NOT carry if they could. How many carry when they are not teaching. Some viewed the liability outweighed the chance that they would be involved in a shooting.
     
  15. Wynder

    Wynder Member

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    Definitely their choice, but it would be nice to be able to have that choice. As a staff and faculty member of a college, I'd be willing to concede that someone must have undergone training (similar to 10hr class required here in Delaware for the CHP) if the property owners would allow people the right to carry on campus.
     
  16. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    I don't care if anyone else carries. I'd just like to have a choice.
     
  17. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    While the rights issue MAY have some merit? LOL

    How much VPC pay you to post over here?


    So again remember the idea of concealed carry is NOT that 100% WILL carry, it's that the badguy DOES NOT KNOW FOR SURE.

    In "victim disarmament zones" it's a guarantee that no one will shoot back. If it was legal then the fear of the unknown kicks in, which is why CCW states have seen decreased crime in general.
     
  18. rino451

    rino451 Member

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    I think many forget that a CCW in schools isn't necessarily (and probably not) to supplement SWAT or the like. It's generally to serve as the last chance to those boarded up or caught in a room. Certainly, evacuation of the danger area is the best idea when possibly (take a fire for instance). That being the case, I'm not sure what risks people are really concerned about when it comes to possessing a CCW in a school. No more than having one in a church I presume.

    Looking back on VA, it appears that the policy of locking the place down doesn't make sense. Frankly, I'm not sure how it could have in the first place. Think of the scenarios: Deadly weapon or not. If not, then let everyone leave. If so, then, what? Board them up, concentrated, behind a door? If there's a fire, no one is expected to hunker down, so why in this case? If one were to assume bulletproof doors and walls, then MAYBE, I can see a lockdown making sense, but an enterprising person, would just set the whole place on fire, and we're back to square one. A lockdown really only baits the bad guy hopefully long enough until the cops can take care of things.

    A static defense is rarely a good idea. It puts you at a severe disadvantage and allows the bad guy tremendous amounts of time to get inside your OODA loop. The existence of one gun can change the whole dynamic of a purely defensive situation. Without one, you really are at the mercy of the bad guys when hunkered down.
     
  19. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    I simply cannot understand that line of thinking. Nobody (that I'm aware of) has advocated the forced arming of teachers. However if a teacher (as a citizen) already has a carry concealed permit then can someone explain to me why carrying concealed in a classroom is ANY different from anywhere else?
     
  20. Acheron

    Acheron Member

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    Personally, I feel that allowing teachers to carry in the classroom could cause some problems, mainly legal ones. It would most likely never happen in our current society because too many people would be freaked out by guns in such close proximity to their children. The antis would be all over it in a heartbeat.

    That being said, I am a firm believer in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and as such I feel that teachers should have the right to carry anywhere. When I was in high school (not too long ago) we had a 'school resource officer': basically a cop that wandered around the school all day. He carried his sidearm everywhere he went so why should the teacher have to leave his/hers at home?
     
  21. Wynder

    Wynder Member

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    Out of curiosity -- what kind of legal problems?
     
  22. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    If I can't trust them with a gun, I sure as hell don't want to trust them with my children!
     
  23. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I am reminded yet again that the climate I grew up in, I should never have taken for granted.

    Many of my teachers were members of some flavor of military reserve. Most were veterans. Three taught hunter safety classes every fall. When we would take a rifle to school as a shop project, my high school principal would want us to take it into his office when we were done so he could inspect the work.

    Guns in school? You think Klebold and Thomas would have been successful in MY high school?

    If society has become so untrusting of its teachers to be able to protect themselves that they must be presumed incompetent, we are in bad shape indeed.
     
  24. cpttango30

    cpttango30 Member

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    Really why are we even talking about it. 90% of teachers all feel the same way guns cause crime. So what would make them carry them to school.

    I for one do not think it is a good idea. I think a better idea would be to hold kids accountable and their parents for the childs actions. Parents should also provide much more disapline in the home than is going on now. I see it every day the mom with three kids in the store they three kids are running wild screaming crying pissing and moaning because they want chocolate covered sugar bombs with caffine. Then mom says oh all right get them. I see kids picking their noses and flicking the boogers on to raw meat and the moms do nothing and most of the fathers are the same way. Ignore them and everything will be ok.

    I have had my kids come home from school telling me they learned that Mexico is an island off the coast of africa. I am sorry the caliber of people teaching today is not as high as it once was.

    I am not saying that they should be banned from carying if they feel the need.

    I have a child with some problems (RAD ADD) she tends to tell lies to get people in trouble. In second grade she almost got a teachers aid fired. I am sure if thoese teacher were carrying guns they would have shot me upon entering that school because not one of them are smart enough to figure out that when a person is kicked down a flight of staires it leaves marks.

    Back to my orginal point 90% of teachers are liberals and think guns are the cause to all the crime in the world. So more than likely they would not carry anyways.

    It is not about the guns it is about the people.

    I know I am going to piss some one off with this statement but Guns are not the only soluition out there.
     
  25. Wynder

    Wynder Member

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    Have a quote for that statistic? Most of the teachers I work with are X-Military and X-Police... Granted, it's a college, but I'm sure there are several people who would carry if given the possibility.

    How does this prevent twenty deaths at the moment of a school shooting?

    That's what this is about -- no one is talking about forcibly arming teachers. Rather, giving those who wish to a choice to defend themselves and, if need be, others.

    Probably, yeah... If a school is confronted with a shooter, right now, all your kids have the option of doing is praying they they're not one of the ones that are being slowly and methodically killed like the ones in Columbine. All you can do is pray that at least one teacher near your child violated the law and is carrying a gun that can stop the shooter.
     
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