I never got into the handgun and rifle sharing the cartridge. My EDC is a 45 ACP, when I carry a rifle I expect it to have a rifle cartridge, like a 405 WCF or a 30-06. Why would I choose to hamstring myself with lesser ballistics?
Kevin
Kevin
What about 5.7x28!
But, we’re all carrying carbines. Where did you find the rifle?when I carry a rifle I expect it to have a rifle cartridge,
Those are impressive numbers. Anybody know what a .357 AMP can do?
I am going to respond to all of this post in sections, without looking further at other replies first, because I find this so interesting and one I have though about many times ... I wanna see how close we all are to being on the same page as this.I've often thought .357 mag. had a lot going for it as it can be chambered in revolvers and carbines, with respectable ballistics from both (emphasis carbine, not rifle). And I've often thought that a Ruger Camp Carbine style tube mag. autoloader in .357 would hit a sweet spot out there.
So I've been wondering why:
1. There aren't detachable box mag. carbines out there that shoot a more "potent" hand gun round, that could be chambered in a auto-loading pistols (with a more reasonable grip length).
2. There are so few auto-loading hand guns out there that shoot a good carbine round. (The only ones I can think of are the Coonan in .357 mag. and the Auto Mag III in .30 carbine)
Granted, I may be "small minded" in my thinking, but from my perspective AR pistols aren't really pistols ...
..... and 9mm luger and .45 acp carbines don't cross the "respectable ballistics" threshold.
Rimmed cartridges seem problematic for reliable feeding from a detachable box mag.
And 33 mm appears to be too long for a reasonable grip frame length on an auto-feeding pistol.
I'll nominate 9x23 Win. for consideration... but have never seen a carbine chambered for it.
Curious to hear other's thoughts on the topic.
Should have known someone would get it.I think the 9x25 Dillon and .40 Super would both be pretty interesting chambered in an AR. The bottleneck cartridge should feed well and some pretty impressive velocity would be possible out of such a carbine.
357 magnum makes a fine handgun / carbine set. Nothing's magic about it though. My most used combo us a 6" gp100 and a 77/357. The 77 feeds from a detachable rotary magazine . both are dependable and accurate. It's not perfect though.I've often thought .357 mag. had a lot going for it as it can be chambered in revolvers and carbines, with respectable ballistics from both (emphasis carbine, not rifle). And I've often thought that a Ruger Camp Carbine style tube mag. autoloader in .357 would hit a sweet spot out there.
So I've been wondering why:
1. There aren't detachable box mag. carbines out there that shoot a more "potent" hand gun round, that could be chambered in a auto-loading pistols (with a more reasonable grip length).
2. There are so few auto-loading hand guns out there that shoot a good carbine round. (The only ones I can think of are the Coonan in .357 mag. and the Auto Mag III in .30 carbine)
Granted, I may be "small minded" in my thinking, but from my perspective AR pistols aren't really pistols and 9mm luger and .45 acp carbines don't cross the "respectable ballistics" threshold.
Rimmed cartridges seem problematic for reliable feeding from a detachable box mag.
And 33 mm appears to be too long for a reasonable grip frame length on an auto-feeding pistol.
I'll nominate 9x23 Win. for consideration... but have never seen a carbine chambered for it.
Curious to hear other's thoughts on the topic.
If you chamber a 357 to 360 Dan Wesson. It puts a cast 180 grain bullet in high 1900 fps territory from a 20" barrel.357 magnum makes a fine handgun / carbine set. Nothing's magic about it though. My most used combo us a 6" gp100 and a 77/357. The 77 feeds from a detachable rotary magazine . both are dependable and accurate. It's not perfect though.
If we're talking about rimless cartridges , I'd say 10mm will work fine. Just depends on what your goal is.
There is no magic or voodoo in any of this, no certain diameter that was blessed to be ideal , just depends . if I was going to get 1 carbine and 1 handgun and it had to be as versatile as possible, I'd go 44 magnum or 454 casull . in my book, bigger IS better. Most of us don't need that though. you mention 9×23 as something desirable for the application. I'm a sucker for cartridges that aren't mainstream but you've got to be realistic about who will buy the thing. 10mm is niche enough , I've got buddies that think 10mm is exotic and super powerful and I try to explain it's really not but no one I know or shoot with would ever buy any 10mm out of fear of obsolescence. I did.
Where I'm at (midwest) there isn't a single animal that 357 or 10mm couldn't kill cleanly. No need to carry more , I often do though. If I think there's a real chance I might have to shoot something . I'd pick a rifle cartridge any day.
Carbines chambered for pistol cartridges have their place but they'll never be very powerful.
What about 5.7x28!
>snicker<
Okay.
Actually, it would fit with the velocity requirements, but would be doing so with a 23 grain, .22 caliber bullet.
Not really a “field” type cartridge, but a human, maybe even a squirrel or coyote wouldn’t like it…[/quote ]
23 grain .22 caliber bullet? Where did that come from?
FNs P90 uses heavier bullets than 23 grains and does so nicely.
So I've been wondering why:
1. There aren't detachable box mag. carbines out there that shoot a more "potent" hand gun round, that could be chambered in a auto-loading pistols (with a more reasonable grip length).
2. There are so few auto-loading hand guns out there that shoot a good carbine round. (The only ones I can think of are the Coonan in .357 mag. and the Auto Mag III in .30 carbine)
Granted, I may be "small minded" in my thinking, but from my perspective AR pistols aren't really pistols and 9mm luger and .45 acp carbines don't cross the "respectable ballistics" threshold.
Rimmed cartridges seem problematic for reliable feeding from a detachable box mag.
And 33 mm appears to be too long for a reasonable grip frame length on an auto-feeding pistol.
I'll nominate 9x23 Win. for consideration... but have never seen a carbine chambered for it.
Curious to hear other's thoughts on the topic.
Okay so here we go but first, 9x23 Win flopped for a reason. 9x23 WIn, or as we used to call it 9x23 Long Nine, was beaten soundly by every metric by SIG 357.
The handgun has its place and purpose-quick/easy access in an emergency (bear defense, self defense, etc.), and the rifle has its place-all of the above plus long distance accuracy/stopping power with the trade off of size and weight. We would do well to recognize, respect, and value that.
Chocolate and peanut butter each have their place and we should recognize respect and value that too. But Reese's peanut butter cups sure are tasty.
AWD sports cars, mini vans and compact cars; yep, they also serve a purpose for millions that dont want/need a jeep rubicon or a ford raptor or even a 4wd suburban.
Ymmv.