Pops is getting his CCW.

[1911 guy]

My Dad is getting his CCW permit, after an "interesting" incident between Christmas and New Years. My wife and I are going to fund the prchase of a handgun as a birthday gift for him. He's going to do all the paperwork and take possession, so no worries or rants about straw purchases, please.

Randomly organized information related to my question:

He likes the feel of my beavertailed 1911 pistols. Does not like the traditional spurred hammer set-up. We're built very similar and both have hammer bite problems.

He's very comfortable with revolvers, but wants to learn autoloaders due to the flat profile for CCW.

Open to any caliber 9mm and up. Not crazy about .40S&W, but not ruling it out.

We have a ceiling of about $700 for this, handgun only. He's going to buy his own leather and classes.

He likes the fit of a 1911, but he doesn't have a really good idead of what's out there.

So, my question is this: Can anyone of several anyones start listing handguns that are generally similar to the 1911 in grip width and trigger reach? Or a give and take approximation? I don't think grip angle is important just yet, as he has no prefference he's falling back on. He's switching from revolvers, after all.

We're not in arush right now, but do want some feed back so when purchasing time comes we'll have made some informed decisions. He needs some ideas to start looking at.

Thanks. THR is awesome for this kind of stuff!

 

[Clipper]

I liked my Kimber Ultra Carry, but wanted DAO for CC, and went with the Taurus PT-145. 10+1 rounds of .45 in a package no wider than the 1911, and the PT-745 is a bit more narrow with 7+1 round capacity, all for around $300.00. Haven't had any failures with mine except one failure to fire a WWB round after a long range session, but the Taurus has double strike capability, so another pull fired it. I find the grip shape more comfortable than the Kimber (wide hands, shortish, heavy fingers).

 

[hagar]

Have him take a look at the Sig 239 (9mm, 40 & 357 Sig)and 245 (45 auto). They are single stack designs and are very comfortable to carry.

Tell us more about the interesting incident. We may learn something from it.

 

[Geronimo45]

The Browning/FN Hi-Power should be pretty close.

 

[langenc]

You said you and wife would fund it-that is great. BUT let him go to the gunshop and select it-esp after shooting a couple-esp the one he selects.

 

[1911 guy]

That's what we're doing.

I'm gathering ideas for him to actually go to gunshops and look at. When B-day (birthday, buy-day, whatever) rolls around, it's a matter of picking it up and going shooting.

As for the incident, my Dad is a pastor. He, along with several of the other local ministers of different faiths, run a charity for those in need from a general fund supplied by offerings from those churches. Each pastor takes turns, a month at a time, being the "on-call preacher". The one whos month it is goes to meet with those who request aid and prayer. Dec. 27, a call came in from the secretary that a man was in town visiting family, was broke and needed gas money to get home. Had the whole story about things falling apart with his family, no place to stay, needed a bite to eat and a tank of gas. So, my Dad gets some cash from the fund ($40 total) and goes to meet this "needy person" at 12:30 a.m. He pulls up to the arranged meeting place, the guy jumps in the car to talk with Dad. His car is nowhere around. He;s waxing rather verbose about how things aren't going well, he's trying to straighten his life out, etc. That's when the cops showed and arrested the "needy" fellow. He was on parole for robbery, was planning on robbing my Dad of whatever cash he had on him. The secretary had a hunch and called the cops with the name the guy had given her and the place they were to meet. Who knows if the guy was going to do any kind of violence or was going to see if his story would make Dad just hand over the money without a clue.

He'd been contemplating getting it just out of General Principle before, but that sealed the deal.

 

[03Shadowbob]

The secretary has a good head on her shoulders for sure. As far as the handgun goes, with so many good choices out there I am sure he'll find what he needs. If he is prone to hammer bites, maybe he can look at the compact Glocks, Taurus MilPro PT series, etc. where the hammer is internal (if that's what you call it)

 

[Geronimo45]

He's a preacher? Then he must use .45, 'cuz I proved that God did... sorta.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=233813

 

[ZeSpectre]

Disclaimer... I'm still fairly new to CCW so take my opinions with a grain of salt

Open to any caliber 9mm and up. Not crazy about .40S&W, but not ruling it out.

I consider the .40 S&W to be an excellent round for CCW, especially in guns like the Taurus Millennium Pro (PT-140). 10 rounds of a fairly potent caliber in a nice compact package. HOWEVER, I do consider the .40 S&W to be a challenging round to learn to shoot. It has a LOT of "snap" to it's recoil (as opposed to the more "push"-like recoil of a .45ACP). If you train and can get the rounds on target it's hell on wheels.

So, my question is this: Can anyone of several anyones start listing handguns that are generally similar to the 1911 in grip width and trigger reach? Or a give and take approximation? I don't think grip angle is important just yet, as he has no prefference he's falling back on. He's switching from revolvers, after all.

I'm sure that those who are more experienced with the 1911 can give you a good list. From my own perspective (a total revolver guy who moved slowly into semi-auto in the past couple of years) the Springfield XD series just seemed to fall right into my hand.

I guess my point is that as nice as the 1911 guns are you should look at a wide variety of styles especially if it is going to be a CCW gun.

EDIT - just for the record, I went with a second generation Taurus Millennium Pro (with the DAO trigger) in .40 S&W for my regular CCW.

 

[ChickenHawk]

LOL, I thought the subject line was "Pope is getting his CCW" and I had to read this one!

Still, glad to hear about your dad.

Cheers,
ChickenHawk

 

[Coyote3855]

1911 Carry Gun?

In your price range are the full-sized and Champion (4" barrel) milspec Springfield Armory 1911s. I have a "loaded" SA Champion that I believe was under $700 out the door from an FFL with limited markup, but that was a couple of years ago. A recent article in American Handgunner said the MilSpec SA could be had for around $450-500.

Also in or near that price range, I would recommend the Kahr line. Both my wife and I have the Kahr P9, 9 mm polymer frame/stainless slide. I had a Kahr PM40 but sold it to get another P9 (wife took the first one.) I didn't like the .40S&W in the PM size. Kahr has recently inroduced a P45 if Pop is set on a .45. Given his line of work, there might be some advantage for your dad in a lightweight, compact, easily concealed yet potent pistol. If he's been shooting his revolvers double action, the Kahr trigger would be an easy transition for him, and maybe safer than a 1911 single action tigger pull.

If he is set on a 1911, I am hearing good things about Rock Island Armory and High Standard. Both MilSpec models are made in the Philippines and retail for under $450. That leaves some room for a tune-up and a beavertail.

This forum has lots of info on about any 1911 on the market today.

http://forum.m1911.org

Good luck. Get your Dad armed ASAP.

Coyote3855

 

[ZeSpectre]

As for the incident, my Dad is a pastor.

I suddenly had this image of your dad whipping out twin 1911 pistols and saying some hokey hollywood like like "I named these guns 'chapter' and 'verse' and I'm about to read 'em to you!"

 

[.45&TKD]

At first glance, I thought your thread said the "Pope" was getting his CCW.

 

[JLStorm]

you may want to find out what kind of shooter your dad will be before getting set on a 1911. I love 1911's and have carried my SA before switching to another model, but I have found from my personal experience that unless you are very into clearning a 1911 and taking wonderful care to maintain the weapon it may not function at 100%. If he just wants to shoot and carry a gun and not want to worry about smithing or all the little things that could happen I would look into a sig as someone else suggested. I prefer HK, but its a bit big for many people to carry. I am not saying that he shouldnt go with a 1911, but just take into account that they generally require more babying than many other out of the box performers. This works well for some and not so well for others. Again, this is only my opinion and for every opinion against 1911's you will have one for 1911's.

 

[RoyJackson]

I'd look at a couple of Glocks...specifically the 19.

These are easy guns to maintain, but handle a lack of maintenance quite well.

If this gun fits his hand as well as it does mine, it be be an excellent choice.

 

[michiganfan]

Browning Hi Power

 

[S&Wfan]

Hi,

As much as I love the 1911 autos (for zillions of reasons), my suggestion would be to look at the single stack Glock in .45ACP, the Model 36. It will give him seven rounds total of that big, dumb ol' slow bullet that has such an agreeable "push" recoil.

If seven rounds won't allow himself to extracate himself from the situation . . . then he could pop in another magazine.

The Glock, in addition to being butt-ugly and easy to maintain, is also in the price range and is very, very dependable . . . even when nasty. There are no safeties to worry about forgetting to unlock under stress, and they are decently accurate.

If he were well versed on 1911s and also well-practiced in their function and use, my suggestion would be a fine Officer's sized 1911 w/ 3" barrel . . . or possibly a 4" Commander-sized gun. There's something really special about a gorgeous 1911 that's been personalized. Then again, they will cost 2-3 times what the plastic-framed guns will cost to get comparable dependability, due to material cost and labor differences.

 

[S&Wfan]

I LOVE the High Power. However, I wouldn't recommmend it to this fellow for two reasons:

1. If hammer bite is a problem, like the original poster indicated has been a problem both for him and his did with various handguns, this would probably rule out a stock High Power . . . for they have been notorious for hammer bite for some shooters.

2. It is a Single Action auto, and pairing this with an older, novice shooter would require the guy to spend a lot of time and practice getting familiar with the single action . . . just as with a 1911.

T.

 

[wcwhitey]

I think it is a very nice jesture that you are funding Dads first CCW gun. I did not get from your post just what experience he has. If he is new to guns might want to drag out the whole collection and let him shoot. Get some other friends in on it as well. The more he can try out the better. If it is a .45 he likes that is great. I think the Models and options mentioned pretty much cover it, but I would back it up with the single stack Sig as well. Good Luck, Bill

 

[1911 guy]

The preachers' handgun experience.

I should have done this before, but I 'll give you guys some background on my dad and his shooting experience. He taught me how to hunt and shoot rifles and shotguns. Very safety minded, the times we've gone out with my handguns he's been 100% safe, albeit slow. He's got my Ruger .357 right now as a house gun, mainly because it takes little to no training to operate and Mom can use it in a pinch, too. Dad served in the U.S. Army, Foreward Scouts, so no lack of firearms training. Fully realizes that handguns make marginal weapons, was issued a 1911 in service. That's how he remembers the hammer bite thing. Still a problem with my Springfield G.I. (off to 'smith today for work. Much anticipation on my part.) Thirty years ago was pretty much the only training or real world experience with handguns he's had. A meat hunter by nature, he never saw the need to own one himself until the last few years when Ohio has had a CCW law. I figure on teaching him the basics of handling a semiauto, then he'll get into a class and not be behind the curve.