1911 style pistol for CCW?

[Ralph III]

Hello All,
A friend's wife recently purchased a Kimber Micro 9 for him as he really desired one. He has begun using it for conceal carry purposes. Anyhow, I'd appreciate some input from those who may carry 1911's, as that would not have been my recommendation for a ccw pistol. He's reluctant to carry a round in the chamber on his ccw, so this pistol should ease his mind given it should be very safe to have one chambered with this 1911 style.

I'm not familiar with the Kimber Micro 9 though but as I understand it has a firing pin block. It's also a 1911 style so you must cock the hammer (manually or by slide) to fire the first shot. Anyhow, this should make carrying one in the chamber perfectly safe.

For CCW purposes:

1) Do you carry your 1911 "cocked and locked"?
2) Do you leave the safety off; with one in the chamber and plan to cock the hammer for the first shot?
3) Do you leave the safety off; and plan on manually racking the slide to chamber the first round and cock the hammer, such as the Israelis do?

My instinct would be #2 from having grown up shooting revolvers. Otherwise, I have no problem with #3. Either way, he needs to practice and practice to make it second nature with either. I personally would not be comfortable with #1 and would never recommend that.

Your input is appreciated.
Ralph

 

[12Bravo20]

I carry "cocked and locked" with my 1911's and similar pistols. Along with my 1911's I also have and carry two Star Firestar pistols and a Sig P938 (same as the Kimber Micro 9) that are carried the same way.

When I was in the Army, we were only allowed to carry with an empty chamber.

 

[CDW4ME]

When I carried a 1911 pistol it was condition 1 (cocked & locked) which is round chambered, safety on.
I would not carry a 1911 any way other than condition #1
I do not carry empty chamber regardless of the pistol; I do not want to have to rack the slide in order to be able to defend myself.
If one is uncomfortable with condition #1 in a 1911 then they should carry a Glock, Shield, Sig 365
If one is uncomfortable with carrying a pistol with loaded chamber they are probably better off with a revolver (and that is coming from someone who doesn't carry revolvers).

 

[Ralph III]

Thanks for the quick input and that's pretty much what I expected. He hasn't been carrying to long, so it's a matter of his getting comfortable doing so.

Ralph

 

[buck460XVR]

My newest EDC is a Kimber micro .380, a mini 1911. It's always holstered condition one, just like it's big brothers in .45.

 

[DR505]

Many people see a cocked hammer on a 1911 style pistol and get scared, yet have no qualms about toting a cocked and locked AR-15/M-4. It is the exact same principal except for the fact that the hammer in the carbine is hidden...it is still cocked and ready to go with a flick of the safety.

If you friend is uncomfortable carrying in "Condition 1" perhaps your friend would be better served with a different type of firearm. If he has to draw and rack the slide, he is unnecessarily handicapping himself by adding extra time to get the gun ready to shoot, plus he is using two hands when he might need one to keep an adversary at distance or ward off a blade, etc.

I have been carrying 1911s for decades, always cocked and locked, and have never had an issue.

 

[Jim Watson]

Many people see a cocked hammer on a 1911 style pistol and get scared, yet have no qualms about toting a cocked and locked AR-15/M-4. It is the exact same principal except for the fact that the hammer in the carbine is hidden...it is still cocked and ready to go with a flick of the safety.

Right, a majority of military and sporting arms are like that. The hammer or striker is cocked but apparently "out of sight, out of mind."

I carried a Commander in Cooper Condition 2 until I realized I had been instructed by a southpaw who learned to shoot before ambidextrous safeties came out. Then I applied the safety catch.

I staged my lever action with chamber empty but that was because it is a SASS RULE. It is easier to swing the lever on a Winchester as you bring it to aim than it is to cock or rack a 1911 on the draw.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I carry a hi power all the time. One in the chamber, hammer back, safety on is, IMO, the only way to do it.

 

[trackskippy]

Whatever you choose to carry, it should be something you are comfortable with carrying "loaded", and something you are willing to take the time and effort to be intimately familiar with it, competent with it, and can use/handle it safely, without thought.

The generally accepted/recommended (civilian) method for carrying a 1911 is Condition 1, cocked and locked, and in a proper holster.

If you arent willing to learn the gun and arent comfortable and competent with it, then you should find something else that you are comfortable and competent with, or dont carry anything. If you carry a gun, it should be loaded and ready to go.

The 1911's really are not a beginners gun and take some understanding as to safety and how they work. I always have to chuckle when people freak out about Glocks, yet a 1911 in the proper condition when "in the hand", is no different than a Glock, and often has a lighter trigger (for some reason, stock 1911 triggers are an impediment to reasonable shooting ) and just as prone, if not more so, to discharging unintentionally, if youre not paying attention. And sometimes, if you dont have a proper grip, they wont shoot when you want. Safeties only make a gun safe if you know and understand how they work and use them properly, "without fail", every time.

 

[herrwalther]

1) Do you carry your 1911 "cocked and locked"?

Yes

2) Do you leave the safety off; with one in the chamber and plan to cock the hammer for the first shot?

No. See number 1. Lowering the hammer on a live round in a 1911 takes practice to do it correctly. Better to just leave it there with the safety on.

3) Do you leave the safety off; and plan on manually racking the slide to chamber the first round and cock the hammer, such as the Israelis do?

That is of the same mindset that you will have time to put on your seat belt before crashing. Also of point, the Israelis no longer train that way. And have not for a long time, at least 15 years. Once the IDF started carrying more reliably safe pistols like Glocks, Sigs, and their own domestically sourced Jerichos, there was no need to carry with an empty chamber.

 

[Tallball]

Everything CDW4ME said, except that I do carry a DAO revolver much of the time.

If you are carrying for SD against normal stuff, you are concerned about getting mugged, carjacked, sexually assaulted, etc.

If the other party is good at what they do, it will be fast and confusing.

Thus if I needed to carry a 1911 style pistol, I would carry it cocked and locked.

 

[reddog81]

In order for the 1911 to fire from condition 1 you have to disengage the thumb safety, engage the grip safety and then pull trigger. I don’t have any interest in carrying a 1911 but not because of a concern for safety. This method is both safer and easier than the other options mentioned.

 

[WheelGunMan]

I have both a Micro 9 and a CSX 1911 style pistols. I carry them cocked and locked. The CSX is my current EDC which I rotate with the Micro 9 on occasion.

 

[nettlle]

I carry cocked and locked. With a 1911 there are three things that must be done to fire it. Safety off, grip safety depressed, and trigger pulled. I consider the 1911 the safest of all to carry.

 

[Riomouse911]

I carried a 1967-vintage Hi Power cocked and locked for a while. I couldn’t see carrying it any other way for ccw.

Stay safe.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I am not a big fan of carry weapons with energized firing systems. It's interesting how people who state that carrying a unlocked 1911 style SA is irresponsible, but have no issues with a striker platform who's trigger pull is essentially no different than a spongy Series-80.

 

[trackskippy]

Isnt a C&L 1911 an energized firing system?

And how are they any different, once in the hand? Both should be in a condition to fire at that point.

Once you take up/finish cocking the striker on something like a Glock, the let off is pretty much the same as say a factory Colt 70 or even 80 Series. At least all of my Glock factory triggers are like that. No sponge, just clean breaks.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

1) Do you carry your 1911 "cocked and locked"?
2) Do you leave the safety off; with one in the chamber and plan to cock the hammer for the first shot?
3) Do you leave the safety off; and plan on manually racking the slide to chamber the first round and cock the hammer, such as the Israelis do?

1. Yes. If someone is uncomfortable with this, am option would be a holster with a thumb break where the strap blocks the hammer drop.
2. No. This is exceptionally dangerous to do as a matter of administrative gun handling. You are much more likely to have a negligent discharge decocking a 1911 on a loaded chamber trying to make carrying safer than your are if you just leave it alone. Also I think the only other way to do this would be to load the chamber and then let the slide go forward and then insert a magazine, and the extractor is not designed to interact with the case rim like that, so you would have a good chance of breaking an extractor earlier than the ordinary part lifetime would suggest.
3. No, because I don't know that any opponent well be kind enough to give me time to do this. I believe the Israelis only did it this way to have a common manual of arms between their wide variety of pistols in the early years of their existence, not because they thought it was safer.

 

[JR24]

Cocked and locked for me. Can’t always count on having time or a free hand (or the skill to your your belt) to chamber a round, and I learned the hard way that lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber can be a very loud idea.

 

[WrongHanded]

When I had one, cocked and locked.

I've heard people too scared to carry one in the chamber, and say they "hope they can jack one in in time" if they ever need it. Wishful thinking.

 

[Archie]

Colt (lightweight) Commander in .45 ACP. The frame is twelve ounces lighter making it easier to carry but the full sized grips make it easy to shoot and control. Condition One, nothing else makes sense.

My instinct would be #2 from having grown up shooting revolvers. Otherwise, I have no problem with #3. Either way, he needs to practice and practice to make it second nature with either. I personally would not be comfortable with #1 and would never recommend that.

I find that statement oddly correct. Looking at the early Colt semiautomatics the model 1903 .38 Automatic (NOT the .32 ACP pocket pistol) there is no manual safety. None. Only my conjecture, but mostly revolvers had been used - in the U. S. - up to that time and the obvious need to cock a pistol prior to firing speaks for itself.

Only my convoluted thinking but I think it is logically defensible.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Isnt a C&L 1911 an energized firing system?

And how are they any different, once in the hand? Both should be in a condition to fire at that point.

Once you take up/finish cocking the striker on something like a Glock, the let off is pretty much the same as say a factory Colt 70 or even 80 Series. At least all of my Glock factory triggers are like that. No sponge, just clean breaks.

You are correct- The 1911 is a pre-energized firing system, and I typically don't carry one. I appreciate the history and love shooting them, just not for EDC use.

Glock is far from the only striker mechanism out there, and many are almost just simple sear releases. No thanks.

99% of my safety concerns with carry platforms do not involve "once in hand" considerations.

 

[ilbob]

People have been carrying model 1911s cocked and locked for over a hundred years. This is proven to be a relatively safe mode of carry.

There are a handful of cases where one has been dropped and the energy from the drop has been enough to drive the firing pin into the primer resulting in an unintentional discharge.

If you are worried about it, buy something with a different system.

 

[Lo-Profile]

I only carry mine "cocked and locked"
Have a Sig Sauer P938, "cocked and locked" as well if I'm carrying it.

If you think about it, any striker fired gun carried with a round in the chamber is cocked and locked even though you can't see that it is. Some aren't even locked with a external safety like a 1911. They use other methods of preventing firing.

 

[MikeInOr]

I love 1911's, they are probably my favorite model of pistol. But I have never wanted to carry one. For me there are much better choices available!

When I first started carrying (about 30 years ago) I remember being hesitant to carry one in the chamber with my Bersa 380 which is DA/SA and has a decocker/safety. It took me a few months to get over it and I started carrying one in the chamber with the hammer decocked and the safety on. It is just a matter of developing a comfort level with the gun and carrying any gun in general. Now I carry plastic pistols with one in the chamber and no safety except for a heavy trigger and never even think about it.

The one time I tried to lower the hammer on a full sized 1911 it went off (in a safe direction) and totally buggered my thumb. That was also around 30 years ago and I haven't lowered the hammer on a 1911 with one in the chamber since... why would you want to?

P.S. I personally have NEVER had a 1911 fail to fire due to the grip safety not being fully engaged in 10's of thousands of rounds. I actually really appreciate the grip safeties on my 1911's and my Springfield XD's.