Popular Mechanics Story : Swat Overkill

[RioShooter]

This editorial appears in a recent issue of Popular Mechanics. The opinion of the author reflects the views of many on THR.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4203345.html

 

[ProguninTN]

Editorial

That is a good editorial. However, I must criticize the comments about "qualified immunity". In some instances, agents participating in a raid could be subject to Federal Bivens actions.

 

[ForeverArmed]

A military mindset has no place in civilian law enforcement. But paramilitary thugs in law enforcement would be no more of a threat to freedom than any other cop if not for their hyper-macho, "I wanna be a bad-ass commando" mindset. That mindset can be observed from the costuming of many of these paramilitary teams: fingerless gloves, ski masks, etc. I can guarantee that nearly every SWAT team member poses with his gear in front of the mirror when he's alone and thinks to himself: "I'm such a bad-ass tactical operator special operations commando."

Sure enough, SWAT teams always display the utmost bravery when pointing guns in 12-year-old childrens' faces, slamming elderly people on the ground at gun point, or raiding the home of some harmless hippy who sells drugs to his hippy friends. Those raids are fun for them because there's no real danger and they get to show off how "tough" they are. But the fun tends to disappear quickly when there's a real threat, like when the BATF got their asses kicked by the Branch Davidians in their initial raid (good!), or when the SWAT team at Columbine cowered outside the school while the killing went on inside (not good).

So, what scares me the most certainly isn't SWAT teams, even though they violate the spirit of the Posse Comitatus Act and are routinely used to enforce unconstitutional laws. What scares me is that so many citizens cower before those bullies, thus empowering and encouraging them.

 

[M2Pilot]

Good link RioShooter. Closer to home,the shooting of the young man who had alledgedly stolen a PS3 in Wilmington was during a SWAT raid.

 

[zahc]

FWIW Popular Mechanics seems to be a remarkably pro-gun magazine.

 

[Lucky]

And they're pro-airplane and pro-shovel... It's a sad commentary when it's a pleasant surprise to find a publication not anti-freedom. Did I say freedom? I mean gun, anti-gun.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

SWAT units have their place and should not be disbanded. I also have no problem with police forces being armed to give them parity with the worst-case threats they are likely to face. And sometimes they have to burst in without warning in order to prevent the destruction of easily destroyed evidence. I would agree that they and their tactics are often overused.

 

[Clipper]

As I see it, there is no reason or excuse, in this day of computerized everything for errors of address or flimsy basis for warrants. And that being said, I believe that anyone, police or otherwise, who breaks into the wrong address (and by definition an innocent's home), has committed a crime and deserves no more consideration than any other home invader. Furthermore, if a few police officers were shot terrorising innocent homeowners, and their commanders thrown off the force and into jail for organizing an illegal break-in, that this crap would come to a screeching halt. The only reason these attrocities continue is the immunity from prosecution and accountability these thugs enjoy.

And the problem doesn't end with the SWAT types, either. Take a good look at all the buzz-cut wannabees you see in police uniform. Makes you think you're an extra in a Full Metal Jacket remake. The tactical baddass attitude is trickling down to the rest of the troops, and now we're hearing about more and more agressive behavior by the patrol cops. Those a**holes in Atlanta were plainclothes, fer chrissakes. Where does it stop?

 

[cbsbyte]

No need for SWAT teams in small towns or counties. There use is now becoming too wide spread, and abusive. I do ee there need in large urban areas for special circumstances but its getting to the point that the most LEOs Dept are now becoming paramilitary. Before we know it we will be living in a complete police state.

 

[Speer]

Police who raid the wrong house, or who fail to give homeowners adequate warning except in truly life-or-death situations, shouldn’t benefit from official immunity.

Correct. When an innocent life is taken, we owe it to them, and to the nation, to undertake a thorough attempt to avoid such needless deaths in the future. Removing immunity is a step in the right direction.

 

[suemarkp]

SWAT units have their place and should not be disbanded. I also have no problem with police forces being armed to give them parity with the worst-case threats they are likely to face.

I hear this "parity" excuse a lot. Law abiding people are accountable for every bullet they launch. Criminals don't care. If the criminal is using a machine gun, do the cops need a machine gun (I think not). Same when the hi cap 9mm's became popular in gangs -- "the cops are out gunned" and need the same. They should only need one bullet per criminal. OK, maybe two or three.

Cops/SWAT should rarely if ever use supressive fire, so they don't need machine guns. I don't know why they need so many cartridges. Yes, it is harder to shoot under fire, but you hear about so many incidents where the cops fire 50 rounds into a car of three people. Why???

I say give them 357's revolvers again, or pistols with single stack magazines. Give them a bolt action rifle or shotguns with HV slugs to deal with criminals in body armor or behind cover. A few SWAT guys could get full autos, and I'd give them all hi cap pistols if they want them.

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

Law enforcement should fire the fewest rounds possible to get the job done (less bullets flying to injure bystanders). That being said, if they can hit their target, there is no reason why they can't have high cap mags.

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

It never ceases to amaze me when this topic comes up and a good majority of people pipe up to degrade SWAT officers. Awfully hypocritical if you ask me when the same majority of posters on this forum have massive arsenals of their own with thousands of rounds of ammunition, not to mention tricked out AR's, FAL's, M1A's, NFA MP5's, M16's etc. We also see lots of pictures of our fellow shooters with their favorite firearms without being made fun of for "poses with his gear in front of the mirror when he's alone and thinks to himself: "I'm such a bad-ass tactical operator special operations commando."

I'm so glad when I see this cause it reminds me that gun owners are the ones to stand up for individuals and not tell others what they should be doing or owning.

 

[hankdatank1362]

I guarantee that all of you bashing SWAT, SRT, or any other "para-military" police unit aren't even close to being as tough as these guys are. I also promise that you wouldn't say one word out of the way to an LEO's face.

Yes, there are way too many no-knowck SWAT-served warrants that go horribly FUBAR these days, but it's not SWAT's fault. It's faulty intelligence, and faulty planning on the director's part. The SWAT team is merely the tool implemented. They, believe it or not, are following orders. (And don't give me the Nuremburg excuse thing.)

And my BS detector is going off big time. If any of you 350lb "couch commandos" could trade bodies and jobs with a SWAT member, you'd do it in a heartbeat. Because you know it's kinda cool (although very overrated from what I hear) and you're jealous.

 

[pcosmar]

Remember, these are isolated incidents,

Police Officer: We Lied to Obtain Warrant

"A narcotics team that shot and killed an elderly woman while raiding her home lied to obtain the search warrant, one team member has told federal investigators, according to news reports confirmed by a person familiar with the investigation who requested anonymity," The New York Times reports. "Spokesmen with the F.B.I.'s Atlanta office and the United States attorney here declined to comment. The shooting occurred on Nov. 21, after three members of the narcotics team arrested a suspected street marijuana dealer, Fabian Sheats, who said he could help the officers hook a bigger fish. Mr. Sheats pointed out Ms. Johnston's house on Neal Street, near a high-crime area, saying a dealer there had a kilogram of cocaine. The officers, according to the reports of Mr. Junnier's account, tried to get an informant to the house to make a drug buy. But when that effort hit a snag, a request for a search warrant was drawn up anyway."

In "Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America," former Cato policy analyst Radley Balko writes: "Americans have long maintained that a man's home is his castle and that he has the right to defend it from unlawful intruders. Unfortunately, that right may be disappearing. Over the last 25 years, America has seen a disturbing militarization of its civilian law enforcement, along with a dramatic and unsettling rise in the use of paramilitary police units (most commonly called Special Weapons and Tactics, or SWAT) for routine police work. The most common use of SWAT teams today is to serve narcotics warrants, usually with forced, unannounced entry into the home. These increasingly frequent raids, 40,000 per year by one estimate, are needlessly subjecting nonviolent drug offenders, bystanders, and wrongly targeted civilians to the terror of having their homes invaded while they're sleeping, usually by teams of heavily armed paramilitary units dressed not as police officers but as soldiers."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/11/AR2007011101982.html
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0107/387552.html
http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=5928995&nav=S6aK

Any one shooting an unarmed person is a murderer.
Three weeks suspention is obcene, the officer should be tried for the killing. At the very least should lose his job.

But they are on our side? to keep us safe?
Just another usual incident.

 

[telomerase]

The SWAT team is merely the tool implemented. They, believe it or not, are following orders. (And don't give me the Nuremburg excuse thing.)

We won't... it's spelled "Nuremberg".

We might bring up the concept of responsiblity for your actions, though.

 

[crazed_ss]

I also promise that you wouldn't say one word out of the way to an LEO's face

You're probably right.. I'd be afraid of them opening up on me with a full auto UMP-45

 

[pcosmar]

hankdatank1362

I weigh 145lb, and am presently unarmed. I grew up shooting, and I hit what I shoot at.
Any gun any time, Yes I am good, just prohibited.


by Last Night in Little Rock

In a post last month about the LAPD SWAT Team shooting a man holding his toddler, one that generated vitriolic comments from both sides, the autopsy results are out this week: police killed the girl, blowing her brains out according to CNN.com and the LA Times.

Both articles note that the toddler had a small amount of cocaine in her system, either ingested from touching the coke her father had on his desk or from her mother's milk.

Eleven officers fired 100 rounds at the man who first fired on them and then fired 40 rounds.

It is still hard for me to imagine that he could use a toddler as a human shield and not be killed himself. I've tried several murder cases where the ME testified that a shot to the cerebral cortex produces instant death and collapse with no pain felt by the person shot.

I purposely took no position on that post. I just reported it. I'm usually cautious enough to wait for more facts before pointing fingers.

Now I will: What were they thinking? Why just wildly fire at a man holding a defenseless child? Where were the snipers who could have taken him out with one shot? Weren't they and the bystanders well enough protected to take the single shot that would take him out? I watched all the TV reports online, and no TV station was close enough to record it, so they were kept away.

Another thing I've learned about SWAT Teams is that they get hyped up for the attack, they thrive on the adrenaline rush, and they get itchy trigger fingers. Where was the restraint they are supposed to show? Back at the office?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/05/lapd.toddler.death/index.html

And then there is the unarmed shootings by NY Cops. 50 rounds and shoot up the whole neighborhood. ***

If they can't shoot they shouldn't have guns and a badge.

 

[MechAg94]

I guarantee that all of you bashing SWAT, SRT, or any other "para-military" police unit aren't even close to being as tough as these guys are. I also promise that you wouldn't say one word out of the way to an LEO's face.

Of course I wouldn't say anything. An LEO has the legal power to make my life a living hell even if only for a short time. Some of them are out there that might take it a step further and get me convicted of something.
That is the source of the anger over this stuff, it is fear. Fear of getting shot thinking we are defending ourselves when a SWAT team breaks into our house on a no-knock raid that is justified by the fact they we own guns. It is highly unlikely, but so is a home invasion by a criminal.

Now me, I wouldn't say anything bad like you describe. Not something I do. I would be more likely to mention the issues in a conversation just to get the LEO's opinion on the matter if the opportunity arose.

And my BS detector is going off big time. If any of you 350lb "couch commandos" could trade bodies and jobs with a SWAT member, you'd do it in a heartbeat. Because you know it's kinda cool (although very overrated from what I hear) and you're jealous.

I have zero desire to be an LEO or SWAT. I am an engineer and like that job.

I like the idea of removing immunity from cops who raid the wrong address or lie/mislead to get a warrant. I think that should also carry over to the officer who obtains the warrant and/or decision maker. One way or another, the consequences have to be there to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed and everything is triple checked. The Atlanta officers who killed that old lady had the wrong address on the warrant. They claimed it was a clerical mistake, but IMHO, that should make it an invalid warrant automatically. Otherwise, cops can just get a "general" warrant each day and go find a house to raid (at least that is where it could lead).

 

[hankdatank1362]

PCOSMAR, Mechag94, I apologize if I came off strong. My comments were meant more towards the people that believe there's no need for a SWAT in some places but there is in others (little towns can have big problems, too:banghead: ) or others that believe LEOs should be minimally equipped. If I were in a kill-or-be-killed situation, I'm pretty sure I would shoot to slide lock, and then maybe reload and shoot some more. That is exactly what most of these high-round-count stories are... humans reacting under incredible amounts of stress and adrenaline.

Mechag94, of course you wouldn't want to trade jobs... especially if it meant trading paychecks! (I went to University of South Carolina Swearingen College of Engineering and Information Technology... for a year until I realized how friggin' hard and not-always-exciting Mechanical Engineering can be!)

 

[pcosmar]

hankdatank1362

I don't mean to come across as anti-SWAT. I believe there is a time and place for these tactics.
However, it seems that the tactics are becoming overused, and used when they are not apropriate.
I am offended personaly as an American, when crimes are commited under the color of law.
I do get upset when an armed person shoots an unarmed or inocent person. It is wrong, very wrong.
A slap on the wrist does not get it.

 

[Speer]

It never ceases to amaze me when this topic comes up and a good majority of people pipe up to degrade SWAT officers.

The only thing that needs to be degraded is the immunity given to those responsible for taking the lives of innocent people. Who knows, maybe after enough badges were punished, the insane War on Drugs itself would meet a well deserved demise.

 

[MechAg94]

Hank, yeah, it ain't always exciting. I could go on all day about the wonders of management of change paperwork and environmental reporting. I am a production engineer these days. I doubt I would want to be an LEO even if the pay were higher though. Investigations might be cool since it involves some problem solving, but not the other stuff.

As was said above, it is the fact that innocents and police have been killed due to this stuff and there doesn't seem to be much for consequences for those responsible. It seems that preventing destruction of evidence is more important than the lives of civilians, police, and suspects.

 

[thexrayboy]

It never ceases to amaze me when this topic comes up and a good majority of people pipe up to degrade SWAT officers. Awfully hypocritical if you ask me when the same majority of posters on this forum have massive arsenals of their own with thousands of rounds of ammunition, not to mention tricked out AR's, FAL's, M1A's, NFA MP5's, M16's etc.

Minor detail.....the majority of the posters here who own AR's, FAL's and thousands of rounds of ammo don't kick in doors and point guns at people. We point them at pieces of paper at a shooting range.

SWAT teams behave in a totally different fashion when compared to recreational shooters. The standards of conduct to which they should be held should also be totally different. And since the consequence of their actions can be lethal to innocents those standards must accordingly be very high. If a recreational shooter makes a mistake at a range some one could die, yes but it is not even close to being the same thing as being woken up at 3 am to die at the hands of a paramilitary team because you were the target of a botched raid and bad intelligence.

 

[jeepmor]

The only reason these attrocities continue is the immunity from prosecution and accountability these thugs enjoy.

I'm not sure I'd call them thugs, but the immunity has to cease if this problem is ever to be resolved.

Like the guy that killed a swat officer in his home at o'dark thirty. He was protecting his family, nothing more. He was on HIS property, in HIS home, protecting HIS family and HE gets the murder charge? He did not get the address wrong, the police did. Why are they allowed to make aggregious errors and not be held accountable. That is preposterous. I wonder if the department even acknowledged the mistake without some seriously aggressive lawyer on the property owners side.

I wish I had a job where I could wreck people's lives with immunity, sounds kinda fun doesn't it. I'd start at the White House myself, then the Senate, then Congress. That should keep me busy. Immunity, remember, immunity.

Sounds just as far fetched doesn't it. Sadly, one scenario is true, one is not.