Porting: Why do people hate them?

[edwardware]

I was on GlockTalk and there was a comparison between the standard Shield and the ported Shield Performance Center (PC) model.

On a Competition specific gun, I sort of get it. . . shaving tenths, in full daylight, blast anticipated, etc. Same advantages for a hunting/silhouette hand-cannon.

For defensive use. . . let's take 15-30% of the blast and flash that was headed toward the target and pipe it up your nose instead. If you're firing from retention, that's literally up your nose. If it's dark, you just flashed your eyesight. Seems like an unpleasant compromise, especially for the completely manageable recoil of a 9mm/40S&W/45ACP.

I say this as someone who teaches older new shooters (60 yo +, recoil sensitive) sort of regularly. I think recoil disruption (and recovery time) is as much auditory as impulse; catching more of it in the face for a small reduction in muzzle flip doesn't seem that useful.

 

[AK103K]

On a Competition specific gun, I sort of get it. . . shaving tenths, in full daylight, blast anticipated, etc. Same advantages for a hunting/silhouette hand-cannon.

For defensive use. . . let's take 15-30% of the blast and flash that was headed toward the target and pipe it up your nose instead. If you're firing from retention, that's literally up your nose. If it's dark, you just flashed your eyesight. Seems like an unpleasant compromise, especially for the completely manageable recoil of a 9mm/40S&W/45ACP.

I say this as someone who teaches older new shooters (60 yo +, recoil sensitive) sort of regularly. I think recoil disruption (and recovery time) is as much auditory as impulse; catching more of it in the face for a small reduction in muzzle flip doesn't seem that useful.

I was just about to ask the same thing of the shooters that carry a ported gun about firing from retention. I have to assume none have tried it, or even thought about it.

Personally, I look at porting like I do trigger jobs. I think its more an attempt to "buy" a way around putting in the time and effort to actually learn to shoot the gun, and in doing so, you get even less, more important, quality time in with the gun in the long run. As hard as you might try, you cant buy skill.

 

[FL-NC]

I have a Glock 19C, and I love it.

 

[Styx]

On a Competition specific gun, I sort of get it. . . shaving tenths, in full daylight, blast anticipated, etc. Same advantages for a hunting/silhouette hand-cannon.

For defensive use. . . let's take 15-30% of the blast and flash that was headed toward the target and pipe it up your nose instead. If you're firing from retention, that's literally up your nose. If it's dark, you just flashed your eyesight. Seems like an unpleasant compromise, especially for the completely manageable recoil of a 9mm/40S&W/45ACP.

I say this as someone who teaches older new shooters (60 yo +, recoil sensitive) sort of regularly. I think recoil disruption (and recovery time) is as much auditory as impulse; catching more of it in the face for a small reduction in muzzle flip doesn't seem that useful.

I don't buy the "blinding myth." The only downside that is plausible is the front sight getting dirty which is more of a range issue vs a magazine or two self defense issue, and debris could cause discomfort when shooting from retention. I don't recall the front sight on my PC Shield ever getting that dirty after a box on 50 during my range trips.

As far as shooting from retention, I'd imagine that a revolver would be more dangerous and painful vs a ported gun. If you had to fire near your face, I'd pick a ported gun over a revolver as well. With that said, why aren't revolvers bashed and hated just as much for self defense as ported guns are?

I searched for a comparison video, and his popped up. He makes some valid points especially when comparing the cons against ported guns to the similar cons that revolvers have, yet revolvers are OK but ported guns are not.

 

[mcb]

I don't buy the "blinding myth." The only downside that is plausible is the front sight getting dirty which is more of a range issue vs a magazine or two self defense issue, and debris could cause discomfort when shooting from retention. I don't recall the front sight on my PC Shield ever getting that dirty after a box on 50 during my range trips.

As far as shooting from retention, I'd imagine that a revolver would be more dangerous and painful vs a ported gun. If you had to fire near your face, I'd pick a ported gun over a revolver as well. With that said, why aren't revolvers bashed and hated just as much for self defense as ported guns are?

I searched for a comparison video, and his popped up. He makes some valid points especially when comparing the cons against ported guns to the similar cons that revolvers have, yet revolvers are OK but ported guns are not.

A revolver is just as blinding (or not) as a ported gun IMHO. But the cylinder gap on a revolve is typical .004-.012 wide gap and is thus a fully choke flow versus the much larger opens in a ported gun. Remember in a revolver's case we would rather not have any gases escape at the cylinder gap and is design to reduce gas flow as much as possible. In a ported gun we are trying to get as much gas to escape the ports as possible making it more effective at reducing recoil and muzzle climb. So though the flash is often similar between a revolver and a ported gun the amount of gas volume is significantly different. Having shot both revolvers and ported semi-auto from retention the revolver is significantly less abusive to the shooter in my experience.

 

[AK103K]

As far as shooting from retention, I'd imagine that a revolver would be more dangerous and painful vs a ported gun. If you had to fire near your face, I'd pick a ported gun over a revolver as well. With that said, why aren't revolvers bashed and hated just as much for self defense as ported guns are?

Neither are going to be fun, but the (non ported) revolvers dont intentionally direct the blast "upwards" and towards your face. At worst, youll get some blast into your side, but at least its not up towards your face and eyes.

Ive only ever been bit (slightly) by a revolver on bare skin, and that was with a Chiapa Rhino, which, in a sense, is a side ported gun, if you look at how they are built. The tip of my thumb got a tad to forward and while barely nipped, it was INSTANTLY noticed.

I wouldnt want to fire it from retention either, especially with that little port they have going on driving some of that blast directly into me. Better my side than my face though.

When you hold whatever it is you have ported in a tight, rearward retention position, where is that port directing the blast? If I hold one of my 19's in that position, the end of the muzzle is right about even with my face.

Considering the gun is basically tight to the body at nipple height, and if you watched how high the blast was going out of that gun in the video above, I think youll get the idea why its not such a great idea. At the very least, Id get used to rotating the gun 90° away from my body, if I were going to use that gun and have to shoot it that way.

Ive shot a number of autos and revolvers from that position in practice enough to know its not fun and even with a gun thats not ported, it can be disconcerting, and thats even expecting it. You get muzzle blast coming at you from a couple of directions, including back off the target. If youve never tried it, you really should. The first couple of times are pretty enlightening.


As far as fouling the front end goes, the pic above was shot with .44 240 grain LSWC's, which tend to be a lot dirtier than plated and jacketed bullets. That 696 actually got me switched over to using plated bullets where I was using lead in the past, and it was a good move all around. "Everything" is a lot easier to clean and a lot less dirty.

A 100 rounds of plated out of that gun and it barely looks like it was fired.



Still, if I were using LSWC's or lead bullets in general, I would still add that to the list of things to consider.






.

 

[Oldschool shooter]

I have a Performance Center Shield in 40 S&W, and an H&K VP9SK in 9mm,both ported. Bought them both used at great prices, under $400 each. I notice no difference in noise, but less muzzle flip in both. I would never have thought to have either ported, that is just how they were. I will admit that muzzle flash in low light conditions seems to be a bit more pronounced.

 

[Styx]

I have a Performance Center Shield in 40 S&W, and an H&K VP9SK in 9mm,both ported. Bought them both used at great prices, under $400 each. I notice no difference in noise, but less muzzle flip in both. I would never have thought to have either ported, that is just how they were. I will admit that muzzle flash in low light conditions seems to be a bit more pronounced.

I share the same experience, but I have a 45 Shield and a Kahr K40 that's ported. I can see more flash coming from the ports, but it's not bright enough to blind me or affect my vision. I've gotten more flash and a bigger fireball shooting 357 out of a snubby, but even then it didn't affect my vision afterwards.

Neither are going to be fun, but the (non ported) revolvers dont intentionally direct the blast "upwards" and towards your face. At worst, youll get some blast into your side, but at least its not up towards your face and eyes.

Ive only ever been bit (slightly) by a revolver on bare skin, and that was with a Chiapa Rhino, which, in a sense, is a side ported gun, if you look at how they are built. The tip of my thumb got a tad to forward and while barely nipped, it was INSTANTLY noticed.

I wouldnt want to fire it from retention either, especially with that little port they have going on driving some of that blast directly into me. Better my side than my face though.

When you hold whatever it is you have ported in a tight, rearward retention position, where is that port directing the blast? If I hold one of my 19's in that position, the end of the muzzle is right about even with my face.

Considering the gun is basically tight to the body at nipple height, and if you watched how high the blast was going out of that gun in the video above, I think youll get the idea why its not such a great idea. At the very least, Id get used to rotating the gun 90° away from my body, if I were going to use that gun and have to shoot it that way.

Ive shot a number of autos and revolvers from that position in practice enough to know its not fun and even with a gun thats not ported, it can be disconcerting, and thats even expecting it. You get muzzle blast coming at you from a couple of directions, including back off the target. If youve never tried it, you really should. The first couple of times are pretty enlightening.


As far as fouling the front end goes, the pic above was shot with .44 240 grain LSWC's, which tend to be a lot dirtier than plated and jacketed bullets. That 696 actually got me switched over to using plated bullets where I was using lead in the past, and it was a good move all around. "Everything" is a lot easier to clean and a lot less dirty.

A 100 rounds of plated out of that gun and it barely looks like it was fired.
View attachment 941296


Still, if I were using LSWC's or lead bullets in general, I would still add that to the list of things to consider.

The guy in tbe video brought up another interesting point. Self defense maybe designed to have less muzzle flash vs practice ammo. Have you tried both and noticed a difference?

 

[Oldschool shooter]

I share the same experience, but I have a 45 Shield and a Kahr K40 that's ported. I can see more flash coming from the ports, but it's not bright enough to blind me or affect my vision. I've gotten more flash and a bigger fireball shooting 357 out of a snubby, but even then it didn't affect my vision afterwards.



The guy in tbe video brought up another interesting point. Self defense maybe designed to have less muzzle flash vs practice ammo. Have you tried both and noticed a difference?

I also shoot and carry a j-frame snubby, and you are correct, even using a standard pressure 38 load, there is more muzzle flash than what I would expect from these ported guns.

 

[Oldschool shooter]

I was just about to ask the same thing of the shooters that carry a ported gun about firing from retention. I have to assume none have tried it, or even thought about it.

Personally, I look at porting like I do trigger jobs. I think its more an attempt to "buy" a way around putting in the time and effort to actually learn to shoot the gun, and in doing so, you get even less, more important, quality time in with the gun in the long run. As hard as you might try, you cant buy skill.

Having owned a 70s vintage S&W Model 27, and an older model Colt Python, I guess I was spoiled by a great trigger should be. So a trigger job for me is not so much a "lack of time and effort" into learning to shoot a particular gun, but in making that gun a better one. I don't do trigger work on all my pistols, but I do it on my carry revolvers. I won't claim to be a wonder shooter, but in 40+ years of pistol shooting, I like to think I have put in plenty of time and effort to become proficient.

 

[edwardware]

As far as shooting from retention, I'd imagine that a revolver would be more dangerous and painful vs a ported gun.

Imagine a revolver. . . with a top strap.

Sure, revolvers spit from the gap. They spit less grit, and significantly less fire then a port, and they spit radially, except not straight upward, instead of exclusively upward directly toward you face like a port.

It's not impossible to shoot a ported pistol from retention; I just don't like the trade-off.

 

[AK103K]

I share the same experience, but I have a 45 Shield and a Kahr K40 that's ported. I can see more flash coming from the ports, but it's not bright enough to blind me or affect my vision. I've gotten more flash and a bigger fireball shooting 357 out of a snubby, but even then it didn't affect my vision afterwards.



The guy in tbe video brought up another interesting point. Self defense maybe designed to have less muzzle flash vs practice ammo. Have you tried both and noticed a difference?

I shot both factory and reloads from my 29, mostly reloads, and did a lot of shooting with that gun at an indoor range, where any kind of flash was pretty noticeable. I never really noticed anything major or blinding with either, just that the flaming "V" from the ports was very noticeable, most of the time, and drew your attention to it, regardless what ammo was being shot.

Other than the occasional fireball that they all seem to give at some point, I really dont remember ever having a big flash issue with anything, even my snubbies and small autos. At least not on any kind of regular basis.

My issue with the Mag Na Porting was, I didnt see any gain in effectiveness shooting the guns, and there were more downsides to positives.

Having owned a 70s vintage S&W Model 27, and an older model Colt Python, I guess I was spoiled by a great trigger should be. So a trigger job for me is not so much a "lack of time and effort" into learning to shoot a particular gun, but in making that gun a better one. I don't do trigger work on all my pistols, but I do it on my carry revolvers. I won't claim to be a wonder shooter, but in 40+ years of pistol shooting, I like to think I have put in plenty of time and effort to become proficient.

I shoot all sorts of guns and different trigger types, and all but one of my guns has a factory trigger in it. The one that doesnt, was a 1911 kit gun that had a trigger that was just wrong, and was corrected when I had a reliability package done to it right after I got it.

Im a firm believer, if you learn to shoot a DA revolver, DAO, you can pretty much shoot anything with little trouble, and, other than the occasional and rare "wrong" trigger, will really find little need in having to have a trigger worked on.

I think for a lot of people, they just dont have the needed "shooters muscle tone" in place, to understand what a big part of the problem that is, and instead of working on that, they take the short cut and try to buy whats missing. Same goes for porting for that matter, at least with most of the "handgun" caliber guns. Generally, nothing wrong with the triggers or guns, out of the box, just the shooters.

I have yet to ever see a factory S&W revolver trigger, or most other guns for that matter, handgun or long gun, that was any kind of a problem, right out of the box.

My old 29 has been gone for quite a while now, and its one of a few guns I wish Id never sold. I currently have a fairly new 629, also a 4", that hasnt been ported, and wont ever be, and it shoots just as well as the old 4" 29 that was. I never noticed there was a difference in how the guns shot due to one being ported and one not.

Still havent bobbed the hammer or filed off the SA notch on the 629 yet, but its crossed my mind. Kind of limits resale, especailly in this day and age.

 

[SDGlock23]

Personally, I've owned one or two ported guns. One was a Glock 24C years back and I don't really care for them. Here's why. They get the front sight dirty, while that might not seem like that big of a deal, if you're running night sights then it can render that front sight useless (not intially assuming it starts out clean, but they soot up FAST). Also it does negatively effect velocity and frankly I'm not sure how big of a help porting actually does for most service cartridges.

That said, I do like compensated barrels because you do get more effective recoil reduction, it doesn't hurt velocity and doesn't dirty up the front sight either since it's past the front. The only possible draw back of comped vs. ported is that it adds to the length of the gun. That's all.

 

[RA40]

I have a 586 and 686 both with 6" barrel, the 686 has MagnaPorts. Shooting the warmer .357 the ports reduce some of the muzzle rise. On milder loads I don't notice much difference.

The ports in this video is interesting, would be interesting to see a non-ported barrel:

 

[Reinz]

I hate porting because it ruined my life- literally.

I was a huge proponent of porting in the 80’s and 90’s. I had about a dozen guns ported and 2 compensated. Most of the ported guns were for concealed carry.

I loved how torque was reduced as well as muzzle flip. I ALWAYS wore double hearing protection- a must!

I never had muzzle flash issues. If you are concentrating on the front sight, you won’t see the flash. If you look for it, then you see it.

Maybe because I had too much exposure or my body was not strong enough, but I developed Hyperacusis. Google it.

My case was a little different because the everyday sounds are not only painful, but give me instant migraines that sometimes last up to 3 weeks. I could not leave the house without wearing ear plugs for 15 years. I missed out on all of my kids school and athletic activities. No more church, no restaurants, the list is a mile long.

Doctors as whole are ignorant of this disorder and don’t know how to treat it.

I did a ton of research in medical libraries and the internet and was fortunate that my doctor would allow me to experiment with safe, legal drugs. For the past 13 years I have been on a regimen that has cut my triggers by about 80 %. That road is a whole other story in itself.

I still have ear plugs with me 100% of the time and bust them out when I know it may get loud.

I still have to avoid any music over mild levels, kids, especially toddlers, and much more. I would not wish this disorder on my worst enemy.

 

[MaxP]

Porting will definitely hold muzzle flip down, but the recoil is redirected and not dissipated. I recently tested a .454 Taurus and it puts all the recoil into the web of your hand. I’d rather wrestle muzzle flip.

 

[Tallball]

I have three 44 magnum revolvers of similar size. One is ported and two are not. They all feel about the same to me. Either the porting isn't doing much, or I am just an insensitive brute.

 

[Styx]

I have three 44 magnum revolvers of similar size. One is ported and two are not. They all feel about the same to me. Either the porting isn't doing much, or I am just an insensitive brute.

I'll take "insensitive brute" for $500, Alex.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

Have a number of comps and ported barrels, couple of Magna-Ported units as well. Not sure I'm either for or against....but they are a pain to keep clean.

They are indeed, so that's why I use the 50/50 dip solution. Do you know what that involves? What it doesn't involve is a lot of scrubbing.

 

[JohnKSa]

We need to be able to stop shooting as soon as it becomes necessary and not to continue shooting longer than it is justified.

That's the key--to stop shooting when it is no longer justified. It's not a matter of stopping at a particular shot count, so how fast one can fire followup shots doesn't really matter, from a purely legal standpoint. So whether a defender shoots 5 shots or 3 shots during the period of time when deadly force is justified is not especially relevant. What's relevant is that no shots were fired after the legal justification no longer exists, things should be fine.

In other words, firing very fast is not a legal problem as long as it's clear that the defender stopped firing when legally required to do so.

 

[pairof44sp]

Imagine a revolver. . . with a top strap.

Sure, revolvers spit from the gap. They spit less grit, and significantly less fire then a port, and they spit radially, except not straight upward, instead of exclusively upward directly toward you face like a port.

It's not impossible to shoot a ported pistol from retention; I just don't like the trade-off.

I hope that you will offer more detail on retention shooting with ports and/or cylinders.

How bad is it?

I’m in the process of being converted by the John Lovell retention-shooting video.

 

[edwardware]

I hope that you will offer more detail on retention shooting with ports and/or cylinders.
How bad is it?

Not much more detail to add, but grab a revolver (or a ported auto and you're safety goggles) and go try it. You'll get sprinkled by a revolver, but not past the occluding topstrap. For visualization, place a piece of paper at some representative distance from the BC gap, and observe how much grit hits it.

A .357 revolver will shred a cotton towel at 2". Energy decreases with the square of radius so 4" is 25% of the energy, etc. It won't injure you, but you still wouldn't want it in your face.

The more narrowly directed jet of gas from a port will be more interesting.

 

[pairof44sp]

I hate porting because it ruined my life- literally.

I was a huge proponent of porting in the 80’s and 90’s. I had about a dozen guns ported and 2 compensated. Most of the ported guns were for concealed carry.

I loved how torque was reduced as well as muzzle flip. I ALWAYS wore double hearing protection- a must!

I never had muzzle flash issues. If you are concentrating on the front sight, you won’t see the flash. If you look for it, then you see it.

Maybe because I had too much exposure or my body was not strong enough, but I developed Hyperacusis. Google it.

My case was a little different because the everyday sounds are not only painful, but give me instant migraines that sometimes last up to 3 weeks. I could not leave the house without wearing ear plugs for 15 years. I missed out on all of my kids school and athletic activities. No more church, no restaurants, the list is a mile long.

Doctors as whole are ignorant of this disorder and don’t know how to treat it.

I did a ton of research in medical libraries and the internet and was fortunate that my doctor would allow me to experiment with safe, legal drugs. For the past 13 years I have been on a regimen that has cut my triggers by about 80 %. That road is a whole other story in itself.

I still have ear plugs with me 100% of the time and bust them out when I know it may get loud.

I still have to avoid any music over mild levels, kids, especially toddlers, and much more. I would not wish this disorder on my worst enemy.

Sorry to hear it. I have hyperaccusis also -- consequent to a brain infection. Hyperaccusis is a generic symptom of brain disorders, whether caused by infection, trauma, what have you.

Anything that triggers the brain: light, sound, motion... is really hard to bear.

 

[Reinz]

Sorry to hear it. I have hyperaccusis also -- consequent to a brain infection. Hyperaccusis is a generic symptom of brain disorders, whether caused by infection, trauma, what have you.

Anything that triggers the brain: light, sound, motion... is really hard to bear.

Thank you.

Sorry to hear about yours as well.

From the few doctors that knew anything, they agreed that my hyperacusis, was caused by recruitment, which is when the brain tries to make up for hearing loss by overcompensating sounds. Even flushing the toilet was painful, or even the “click” from closing the door.

 

[Bcwitt]

When you shoot from the hip , all that blast is going right in your face.