Post Office CCW

[Dorryn]

Ive always wondered about the legality of CCW into a Post Office. I drop by occasionally to mail out packages for gifts or for things ive sold online, and since im carrying ive often hesitated and left my gun in the glove compartment before entering.
As a post office is considered "Federal" property belonging to the government, the same as a courthouse, I have no idea if my permit is therefore valid. On the other hand, I dont want to assume it is just because there are no metal detectors or signs. Or at least, thats my logic. I dont want to be arrested on some technicality. Anyone know?

 

[Zero_DgZ]

The paperwork that came with my PA permit said that carry in the post office is strictly verboten.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

The second problem with relying on 18 USC 930(d)(3) is that this section in no way EMPOWERS anyone to carry a gun; rather, that section simply states that 18 USC 930 does not apply to someone is lawfully carrying a gun incident to some lawful purpose. In Ohio's law, there is a big difference between something NOT BEING PROHIBITED and something BEING SPECIFICALLY LICENSED. Just because a statute says that certain conduct is not prohibited by that particular statute does not automatically equate into authority to engage in the conduct.

You're joking right?
You mean that everything in the state is illegal, unless the legislature has specially authorized you to be able to do it?
Good golly, that is about as un-American as you can possibly get!

 

[Ala Dan]

Often times, I go to the PO late at night to mail out letters that are
destined for out-of-town delivery. Being that our PO is in a very bad
part of town, I never fail too carry my CCW piece. Its not often that
I encounter anyone; but the scumbags that are just waiting to seize
an opportunity to rob or mug someone~!

 

[mec]

Texas law doesn't mention federal facilities so, its not a violation of state law. The signs they post at the post office create the impression that even having a gun on their parking lot is a federal crime. There have not been any test cases in regard to this in texas. One postmaster said he thought that the prohibition was aimed at post office employees and that, in any case, a federal marshall would have to be the one to catch you for any problems to result.
Nobody really knows for sure.

 

[michaelbane]

First, 39 USC 410 exempts Post Offices from 18 USC 930 (being a statute dealing with Federal facilities in general.)

If 39 USC 410 does in fact exempt Post Offices from 18 USC 930, then the government cannot rely on it to prosecute someone in the first place. You can't say that the prohibition part applies but not the exceptions. It's either all or nothing.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Advance Knowledge

You are allowed to carry in a Post Office facility if you have advance knowledge that there's going to be a shooting.

So, on those days when you know nobody's going to go "postal" down there, leave the piece in your car.

When you've received your official "rampaging Postal employee" alert, then by all means, carry on PO premises.

This Public Service Announcement has been brought to you by the letter F.

 

[SSN Vet]

concealed is.....

as concealed does

 

[TexasRifleman]

My question is, who the heck actually goes to a Post Office anymore?

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Just because a statute says that certain conduct is not prohibited by that particular statute does not automatically equate into authority to engage in the conduct.

Actually, this is contradicted by a couple of hundred years of case law by now.

 

[Beatnik]

Dr. Dickie, I could see how that would be read, but I'm pretty sure that's not what Furious is going for.

I do not know what the wording on the actual signs is - I'm sure that makes all the difference.

If I own a store, and I put up a sign that says "The owner of this property does not allow firearms here" (in legalese, of course) and I omit the "by citizens for other lawful purposes" bit, then I've effectively told the world "keep your guns off my property".

If the PO or whatever bureaucratic jerk in charge of the property wants to do something like that, then I think what Furious is saying is that your CCW permit doesn't empower you to carry your gun there. Virginia's CCW law for example states that you can't carry on "Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited."

However (and I'm not a lawyer) I can't see where Ohio's says something similar.

 

[Beatnik]

Whoa, back up there.
That's five pages of legal gobbeldygook. I apologize for attributing it to you by the end, but I'm putting my attention into work first, you know.
My point was simply that the Jackboots aren't coming and we shouldn't grab the shotguns and head for the hills of Montana.

 

[WeedWhacker]

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Last I'd checked, carrying a concealed weapon was twice-certified legal: Amendment #2, and by virtue of carrying a CCW permit for the state I'm in.

 

[drbironhead]

U cant carry in any federal building period here is why

 

[drbironhead]

You can not carry any weapons in a federal building period. per (41CFR102-74.440) not even an offduty cop can or a ccw holder the only people that can carry in a federal building is the contract security guards if they have any in that building or lawenforcment officers that are their on officail duty.
Its all in theFederal managment regulation[/U](Title 41 code of Federal Regulations, part 102-74, Subpart C)

and that goes for all 50 states no excemptions

 

[kirkcdl]

This subject has been beaten to death,the following link has the straight story,I personally verified it with a Postal Inspector:http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html

However,as the Inspector said to me,"Although I have no knowledge of anyone ever being prosecuted for lawful,peaceful,concealed carry in a Post Office,at least the civilian access section,would you want to be the first case tested in front of a judge?"

As a bit of background,I have been employed by the PO for over 20 years,and I'm in the habit of checking my PO box on my day off,which is usually on the way to or from the range.This why I had a need to know the real story.I may not possess any guns while on the property in an "employee" status,but this is a condition of employment,not a law.

Basically,the subsection that has as an exemption for "anyone conducting lawful business",I'd guess the prohibition is specifically for those who commit other crimes while on the property,just so there is always something the PO can charge you with in case the local DA doesn't want to press charges.So,if you're going to the PO to commit a criminal act,don't carry concealed...

 

[HerrWolfe]

Would rather take a chance in not carrying in USPS bldg where it is illegal, than to loose my CCW permit, plus pay a fine, plus maybe jailtime, and perhaps become a felon. I even get concerned leaving it in the vehicle when I go into the PO....if it is legal or not.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Just to chime in, Cali DOJ says no CCW on Federal Property, eg: post offices, banks, federal courthouses and airports.

Have I done it? Yes. Oh and -

My question is, who the heck actually goes to a Post Office anymore?

I do when sending care packages to the sandbox. Or when buying cool stamps. Yeah that's right, I'm a comicbook geek.

 

[Prince Yamato]

United States Postal Service = gov't entity. Federal property = no carry.

Print your stamps from online, I believe the postal service will now pick packages up at your door. To hell with the physical post office building. CCW no longer an issue.

 

[dave_pro2a]

IIRC, a FFL holder can ship a PISTOL via USPS.

A 'regular' citizen can ship a RIFLE via USPS.

So we have two cases where people may legally posses firearms on Postal Service (quasi-Federal) property.

These 2 situations seem to fall under the "lawful purposes" clause.

I would think common sense dictates that possession of a firearm for the purpose of self-defense with a valid CCW would also fall under that class. There are already other exemptions, so why not this one -- unless "lawful purpose" is explicitly defined as "for the sole purpose of mailing a firearm" (and I don't think it is).

All the above is imho.

 

[SniperStraz]

Concealed means concealed!!!

 

[stevelyn]

drbironhead,

I've been in and out of federal buildings on several occassions up here. Prior to entering the metal detector I've handed the guard my badge wallet and ID informing him I was armed and would rather not set off his detector possibly upsetting the sheeple.

They've always escorted me around the detector allowing me to go about my business unimpeded.

Now perhaps they were extending me some sort of professional courtesy, I don't know, but I've never heard of it being an issue. The federal courthouse is a different animal altogether.

We also have permitless (VT style) concealed carry. The post office issue has never come up.

 

[michaelbane]

You can not carry any weapons in a federal building period. per (41CFR102-74.440) not even an offduty cop can or a ccw holder the only people that can carry in a federal building is the contract security guards if they have any in that building or law enforcment officers that are their on official duty.
Its all in the Federal managment regulation (Title 41 code of Federal Regulations, part 102-74, Subpart C)

and that goes for all 50 states no excemptions.

Assuming for the sake of argument that the exception in d(3) is applicable, as previously discussed, I think the above mentioned regulation is actually void for the same reason that the postal CFR would be void: namely, that it is in direct conflict with the intent of Congress in granting the exeption.

 

[fordfan485]

When i was in the post office yesterday at the door there was sign that said no firearms were permitted on the property because of federal law and those caught will be charged with a felony

 

[chetth]

fordfan, did it say "federal law" or "federal regulation"?

The post office has the habit of quoting just the regulations that say 'keep the gun out' while ignoring the clause in the regulations that implement the law.

The PO quoting the CFR ignores the Law [Title 18 clause 930(d)] about "incident to hunting or other lawful purposes"

If the sign says Federal Law, I think they are 'bending the truth'