Powder, primer, and ammunition limits.

[CLP]

So I registered on the NFPA site. There is a new addition with notable changes. It's not a typical format, so you can't copy/paste. So I copied the screen and attached them in numerical order.

 

[CLP]

this is the last of them

 

[CLP]

It does say that 150K primers is the new limit- but for what? Since they reference the DOT in that statement I assume they're referring to commercial transport since it's still clearly stated no more than 25K can be transports and that 10K is the limit to be stored in residences. Or maybe they mean storage in outdoor "magazines". They still limit stores to displaying no more than 10K primers but increased the amt of smokeless powder they can display. They also address black powder in this revision.

 

[Safetychain]

To start off with, I do not have but a few thousand primers stored in my house and a few lbs of smokeless powder. However, with Fiocchi with their 1500 primer containers, a popular cost effective purchase option of 12000 primers would definitely suggest that many, if not most, will have over the 10000 primer limit in storage at their residences at least just after receiving them in the mail. I can understand the concern of firefighters but, the Obama initiated component shortage has made the public in general NFPA rule breakers with possible serious repercussions. Usually though, as with the Electric code, these repercussions are only realized when the infraction resulting in the insurance company having a possible way to avoid honoring your claims. The powder/primer rules likely would only come into play should a firefighter be hurt or killed in performance of his duties with possible wrongful injury/death litigation. This would be similar to keeping too many gallons of motor oil or a cylinder of propane in your garage. I have never heard of any residence, commercial - yes, being inspected/raided (though times are changing) for breaking an NAPA code. How many of you permanently use an extension cord in your house or business to provide power to a lamp that it is inconvenient to plug directly into its closest available outlet? I had my office, prior to retirement, inspected and was written up with that violation. Being the Navy's (so called) Expert on electrical distribution and generation, I fought this as my section of engineers were the ones that determined to a great extent what NFPA rules Navy construction would follow. The fire chief withdrew his complaint but the extension cords were confiscated by our command; it was glossed over. It shut my computer off, stopped me from working for a few hours until my boss gave me new extension cords and told to break more NFPA rules by hiding the cords within the cubicle walls.

 

[brickeyee]

It all depends on what the locality has adopted.
Often an 'administrative' code as part of the fire code.

Best method is to stay off the radar.

 

[BSA1]

The powder/primer rules likely would only come into play should a firefighter be hurt or killed in performance of his duties with possible wrongful injury/death litigation. This would be similar to keeping too many gallons of motor oil or a cylinder of propane in your garage

Motoer oil and smokeless powder are not an explosive therefore do not pose any special risk to firefighters.

Primers are explosive but do not have the power of blackpowder. They are very stable. The only times I have read about them exploding is in primer tubes like Dillons that allows dust from them to accumulate (which is the reason I don't like Dillon presses).

Blackpowder is a explosive and consideration should be given to it's storage. I keep my blackpowder separate in another part of my vault. It is also worth noting that blackpowder is now marketed in plastic containers as it is explosive when in a metal container. Loose blackpowder merely burns.

 

[JohnM]

" Loose blackpowder merely burns."
Huh!?! Wrong!

And you may be confusing real black powder with the black powder substitutes. Two different compounds.

 

[brickeyee]

"Loose blackpowder merely burns."

No.
A large enough pile of unconfined black can go high order.

It is easier than smokeless to get it high order when confined.
Thus the preference for black in pipe bombs and other crude weapons.

 

[oneounceload]

This has me thinking. In a fire, it seems that blanks would be more hazardous than bulleted rounds, because the powder is held in the case by a mere paper wad, and thus is more exposed. Not only that, but the powder used in blanks is extremely fast burning. (EC Blank Fire powder was used to fill grenades in WWII.)

What would be the recommended (or mandated) methods of storing large quantities of blanks? Would regular metal ammo boxes be sufficient? What about an overall limit on quantity?

Putting them in ammo cans turns them into a potential bomb. If they were to just be in a fire, they will merely go ppfffft and nothing happens. Toss a live round in a fire and it will do the same

 

[brickeyee]

Putting them in ammo cans turns them into a potential bomb.

The gasket on the ammo can is designed to fail long before the ammunition inside can cook off.

 

[Safetychain]

If someone had quantities above said limits, would something like a backyard vault, the type available for sale that are made of PVC with a screw top suitable for burying solve the legal issues. They sure would avoid the likelihood of detection by authorities as well as, far as I could see, alleviate the possibility of explosion; yea, confined and now much more likely to result in an explosion/larger explosion but infinitely less likely to have the ignition source. I'm talking about smokeless powder and or primers.

 

[Cycletroll]

NFPA is a set of guidelines and recommendations. It has no force of law. It's guidelines can be the standard for the law. OSHA respiratory protection laws are largely based on NFPS guidelines.

If NFPA were the law then there would be 4 fireman on every one of our structural engines (NFPA 1710); unfortunately for us there is no law to recommend that guideline.

Primer and powder storage should be undertaken with prudent caution but I bet most households have more dangerous/flammable amounts of paints, pesticides, etc in their garages

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

The amount of reloading components I chose to have is no one's business except mine.

 

[bangswitch]

Black powder is not an explosive in the true sense, as it does not detonate. It does however have a very rapid burn rate (some grades more than others), and its primary difference from smokeless powder is that its burn rate stays essentially the same whether out in the open or in an enclosed container, whereas smokeless powder burns more slowly in the open than it does in an enclosed container and its burn rate increases with increased pressure. It is true that a large amount of black powder can "go high order", which is essentially an explosion, due to its high burn rate and the volume available.

Someone above mentioned a propane cylinder. This is probably the most dangerous item in anyone's garage, regardless of how much black powder or smokeless powder or primers they may have at the loading center. A twenty pound LP tank, if exposed to enough heat to cause rupture of the tank due to overpressure of the contents, can level the typical home once the liquid is released, returns to gaseous state and is ignited. This is called a BLEVE (boiling liquid, expanding vapor explosion).

 

[mongoose33]

NFPA is a set of guidelines and recommendations. It has no force of law. It's guidelines can be the standard for the law. OSHA respiratory protection laws are largely based on NFPS guidelines.

If NFPA were the law then there would be 4 fireman on every one of our structural engines (NFPA 1710); unfortunately for us there is no law to recommend that guideline.

Primer and powder storage should be undertaken with prudent caution but I bet most households have more dangerous/flammable amounts of paints, pesticides, etc in their garages

I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV. I read about these limits a few years back and decided to call my local fire department and building inspector. While they were encouraging me to limit my storage to the recommendations, it turned out that they were not legal limits in my city.

I did make up a primer safe made of 1" nominal stock, and a powder safe of the same dimensional lumber. Not that hard, and it's really worth doing.