emilianoksa
Member
Yes, lots.
It's the caliber of choice.
It's the caliber of choice.
practical .380 use?
- Thread starter redraider1109
- Start date
- Status
christcorp
Member
Don't the bad guys know that they 380 isn't really going to hurt them? That it's not efficient enough for self defense? I'm surprised the bad guys don't laugh to death at you if you pull a 380 or 9mm mak out on them. Then again, I don't remember a lot of people in Europe laughing when they were shot with a Makarov. Maybe it's a "Cultural" thing. American criminals are smarter, and they know the 32, 380, and mak can't hurt them, so that's why it's more ineffective here.
christcorp
Member
Delete: Double Post
oldfool
Member
TGIF !
I think we got a real serious shot here at a 200 post count...
somebody put up a picture of holes in something shot quick at 5 yards (preferably something not holding a machete at high ready, unless it don't move), and I think we just might make it before Saturday !
0.4 second splits at 15 feet...
we could always try a poll, just to keep it rolling along...re: with a nice "tight" group like that, what do you say are your percentage odds of stopping machete man ?
or perhaps better stated, what are the odds of losing your head, (irrespective of handgun caliber, or where machete man spends the rest of eternity) ?
0%
20%
40%
60%
80%
100%
what say you, friends ?
practical is, as practical does ?
get a bigger gun ?
you can only have just so much fun ?
"he/she touched me first" ?
"my dawg's better 'n your dawg, 'cause he eats magnum size machetes" ?
PS
yo, whatever your opinion is, you are fully entitled to it (no BS)
but us wussies do got gun rights, too !
at least most of us don't have to live in a gun-free zone
life is, at best, too short, machete man or no, do learn to appreciate the silver lining in every dark cloud
me, I forgot they even made the Colt Mustang in all steel
if not for this thread, I wouldn't have bothered to put that on my search list !
but one inquiring mind still wants to know.. do a Sig 232 slice the top of your hand, or not ?
'cause I still can't talk myself into dropping the bucks required to find out 1st person
I think we got a real serious shot here at a 200 post count...
somebody put up a picture of holes in something shot quick at 5 yards (preferably something not holding a machete at high ready, unless it don't move), and I think we just might make it before Saturday !
0.4 second splits at 15 feet...
we could always try a poll, just to keep it rolling along...re: with a nice "tight" group like that, what do you say are your percentage odds of stopping machete man ?
or perhaps better stated, what are the odds of losing your head, (irrespective of handgun caliber, or where machete man spends the rest of eternity) ?
0%
20%
40%
60%
80%
100%
what say you, friends ?
practical is, as practical does ?
get a bigger gun ?
you can only have just so much fun ?
"he/she touched me first" ?
"my dawg's better 'n your dawg, 'cause he eats magnum size machetes" ?
PS
yo, whatever your opinion is, you are fully entitled to it (no BS)
but us wussies do got gun rights, too !
at least most of us don't have to live in a gun-free zone
life is, at best, too short, machete man or no, do learn to appreciate the silver lining in every dark cloud
me, I forgot they even made the Colt Mustang in all steel
if not for this thread, I wouldn't have bothered to put that on my search list !
but one inquiring mind still wants to know.. do a Sig 232 slice the top of your hand, or not ?
'cause I still can't talk myself into dropping the bucks required to find out 1st person
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oldfool
Member
Friday night foolishness aside..
if anybody knows about a really good/cheap deal on:
Colt Government model 380 acp
Colt Mustang (early all steel model) 380 acp
Sig 232 380 acp
Beretta "full size/too big/too wussie" single stack 380 acp
sure would appreciate a courteous PM, no kidding
I probably wouldn't buy it nohow
(great-grand-baby needs new clothes, mama needs new shoes)
but would enjoy thinking about it, anyway
practical not required
if anybody knows about a really good/cheap deal on:
Colt Government model 380 acp
Colt Mustang (early all steel model) 380 acp
Sig 232 380 acp
Beretta "full size/too big/too wussie" single stack 380 acp
sure would appreciate a courteous PM, no kidding
I probably wouldn't buy it nohow
(great-grand-baby needs new clothes, mama needs new shoes)
but would enjoy thinking about it, anyway
practical not required
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emilianoksa
Member
I recall, about two years ago, watching a filmed American news report , in which a police officer approaching a wounded criminal on the ground who reached for his gun, put about nine or ten 9mm rounds into his torso at very close range (less than five yards).
The guy survived.
It reinforced for me the oft expressed view that if you want to make sure a man is completely immobilised, use a rifle.
No handgun is foolproof when it comes to self-defence, unless you're cool enough to deal clinically with life threatening situations, and an excellent shot.
I am forced to rely on an anaemic calibre when I venture out of the house, but for home defence, it is a source of great comfort to me that I have a pump shotgun.
Perhaps I should just stay at home.
The guy survived.
It reinforced for me the oft expressed view that if you want to make sure a man is completely immobilised, use a rifle.
No handgun is foolproof when it comes to self-defence, unless you're cool enough to deal clinically with life threatening situations, and an excellent shot.
I am forced to rely on an anaemic calibre when I venture out of the house, but for home defence, it is a source of great comfort to me that I have a pump shotgun.
Perhaps I should just stay at home.
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David E
Member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7,459
A Day At the Range w/ .380's and Such
Ok, finally got to go to the range.
I only have one pic, so far. I have an idea for a different thread and plan on posting the future pics there.
Here was the target set-up:
IPSC target placed at 16-17 feet. Sheet of typing paper placed center chest.
All runs started from High Ready. All runs consisted of 5 shots ON the sheet of typing paper. The time started at the "beep" and ended on the last shot. (For those that don't know how a shot timer works, think of it as an "audio stop watch." It "hears" the shot and displays the elapsed time.)
I had my son-in-law run the shot timer, starting it at random times. (also providing a witness to the proceedings) I only did the runs 2-3 times to get a feel for each gun as I went. Sometimes, the best run was the first one.
The times listed are the best runs with the specific guns.
Since it was specifically requested, I first shot my Keltec P-11 9mm.
Best run was 1.78
Next up was the Kahr P-9
Best time: 1.54
Next was the Glock 26.
Best time: 1.53
Next up was a Colt Mustang .380, all stainless steel (heavy for its size)
Best time: 1.46
Then I tried a Sig 238 on loan. I'd never shot this gun before.
Best time: 1.41
Now, some may think that these drill results prove their point that a .380 IS, in fact, more controllable than a 9mm. I found it quite interesting, but 2 things come to mind:
1) The best .380 time edged out the best 9mm by by a mere 12/100th's of a second. Is that enough of a time difference to give up twice the power.....for each shot?
2) I found the time difference to be more of a function of the trigger type than the caliber.
I've not shot the Keltec, Kahr or Glock recently at all. In fact, it's been probably 10 yrs since I fired the Keltec and several months to a year or so for the other 9mm's.
That said, it's been several months since I fired the Colt and I'd never fired the Sig before today. However, they are mini-1911 designs and I shoot those all the time. Therefore, I was immediately more comfortable and "attuned" to the 1911 mechanism, even when reduced in size.
I then shot my current carry gun, the previously mentioned Kimber Compact Aluminum Stainless (alloy frame).
My best time with that?
1.32
Ok, finally got to go to the range.
I only have one pic, so far. I have an idea for a different thread and plan on posting the future pics there.
Here was the target set-up:
IPSC target placed at 16-17 feet. Sheet of typing paper placed center chest.
All runs started from High Ready. All runs consisted of 5 shots ON the sheet of typing paper. The time started at the "beep" and ended on the last shot. (For those that don't know how a shot timer works, think of it as an "audio stop watch." It "hears" the shot and displays the elapsed time.)
I had my son-in-law run the shot timer, starting it at random times. (also providing a witness to the proceedings) I only did the runs 2-3 times to get a feel for each gun as I went. Sometimes, the best run was the first one.
The times listed are the best runs with the specific guns.
Since it was specifically requested, I first shot my Keltec P-11 9mm.
Best run was 1.78
Next up was the Kahr P-9
Best time: 1.54
Next was the Glock 26.
Best time: 1.53
Next up was a Colt Mustang .380, all stainless steel (heavy for its size)
Best time: 1.46
Then I tried a Sig 238 on loan. I'd never shot this gun before.
Best time: 1.41
Now, some may think that these drill results prove their point that a .380 IS, in fact, more controllable than a 9mm. I found it quite interesting, but 2 things come to mind:
1) The best .380 time edged out the best 9mm by by a mere 12/100th's of a second. Is that enough of a time difference to give up twice the power.....for each shot?
2) I found the time difference to be more of a function of the trigger type than the caliber.
I've not shot the Keltec, Kahr or Glock recently at all. In fact, it's been probably 10 yrs since I fired the Keltec and several months to a year or so for the other 9mm's.
That said, it's been several months since I fired the Colt and I'd never fired the Sig before today. However, they are mini-1911 designs and I shoot those all the time. Therefore, I was immediately more comfortable and "attuned" to the 1911 mechanism, even when reduced in size.
I then shot my current carry gun, the previously mentioned Kimber Compact Aluminum Stainless (alloy frame).
My best time with that?
1.32
Both my wife and I carry a .380 LCP as a BUG, or a BUG's BUG (J-frame), the primary being usually a 9mm for my wife and .45 ACP for myself.
At times the .380 is the only gun I grab when running to the store. It comes handy in many situations being so light, tiny and 'potential.'
With good SD ammo it's a very potential carry gun that requires some proficiency, but what serious SD gun wouldn't?
Naturally, it would be prudent always to carry you primary (preferably .45 ACP and up, your BUG 9mm and your BUG's bug minimum .357 with several spare magazines), but life hardly ever is perfect.
A .380 has its function, and it is darn sweet to shoot and carry. Did I mention that the gun-holster combo is light?
At times the .380 is the only gun I grab when running to the store. It comes handy in many situations being so light, tiny and 'potential.'
With good SD ammo it's a very potential carry gun that requires some proficiency, but what serious SD gun wouldn't?
Naturally, it would be prudent always to carry you primary (preferably .45 ACP and up, your BUG 9mm and your BUG's bug minimum .357 with several spare magazines), but life hardly ever is perfect.
A .380 has its function, and it is darn sweet to shoot and carry. Did I mention that the gun-holster combo is light?
oldfool
Member
I dunno, I am giving some real serious thought to the spitball option, myself
lightweight, easy carry, cheap ammo, low recoil, very shootable
I plan to sart with an IPSC target at 36 inches, work on accuracy 1st, then gradually work the distance on out to maybe 4 or 5 feet
I think I am going to need a lot of work on my "spit splits", though
(would greatly appreciate any user friendly technique tips on how to improve them spit splits)
anybody got any good ideas on how to fashion a high capacity "spit clip" magazine ?
would surely help my "spit split" time
penetration not being quite what I had hoped for, (I think I mebbe need a magnum caliber spit load) spit clip capacity could be real important if I have a run in with machete man, you know !
guess mebbe I better stick with my 380acp until I get my spit split under 3 seconds
but will post some pics just as soon as I do
http://www.instructables.com/id/how-to-make-a-spitball-gun/
lightweight, easy carry, cheap ammo, low recoil, very shootable
I plan to sart with an IPSC target at 36 inches, work on accuracy 1st, then gradually work the distance on out to maybe 4 or 5 feet
I think I am going to need a lot of work on my "spit splits", though
(would greatly appreciate any user friendly technique tips on how to improve them spit splits)
anybody got any good ideas on how to fashion a high capacity "spit clip" magazine ?
would surely help my "spit split" time
penetration not being quite what I had hoped for, (I think I mebbe need a magnum caliber spit load) spit clip capacity could be real important if I have a run in with machete man, you know !
guess mebbe I better stick with my 380acp until I get my spit split under 3 seconds
but will post some pics just as soon as I do
http://www.instructables.com/id/how-to-make-a-spitball-gun/
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David E
Member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7,459
I've determined there are several "practical uses for a .380"
1) It fits in a gun the size that previously were chambered for .25 acp, so it's an increase in power in the same size platform
2) The micro-sized .380's make dandy pocket guns.
3) The larger .380's allow someone averse to recoil to become more competent with a centerfire handgun.
4) The .380 beats a .22 LR handgun for defense
5) Some of the larger .380's have a large ammo capacity.
6) Some countries don't allow much bigger, caliber-wise, so again a hi-cap .380 has much appeal.
7) It's just fun to shoot!
1) It fits in a gun the size that previously were chambered for .25 acp, so it's an increase in power in the same size platform
2) The micro-sized .380's make dandy pocket guns.
3) The larger .380's allow someone averse to recoil to become more competent with a centerfire handgun.
4) The .380 beats a .22 LR handgun for defense
5) Some of the larger .380's have a large ammo capacity.
6) Some countries don't allow much bigger, caliber-wise, so again a hi-cap .380 has much appeal.
7) It's just fun to shoot!
oldfool
Member
David
you are a gentleman, sir
peace
PS
a good day to remember those who gave their lives to defend and protect our right to make free choices, and responsibly exercise those individual rights
you are a gentleman, sir
peace
PS
a good day to remember those who gave their lives to defend and protect our right to make free choices, and responsibly exercise those individual rights
TexasBill
Member
I've determined there are several possible reasons you continue to beat this dead horse, having failed to persuade anyone.
1.) You just don't get it.
2.) You don't want to get it.
3.) You have no idea of what you're talking about.
Over the past 40 years, I have owned the following centerfire handguns: AMT: .357 Auto Mag, .44 Auto Mag; Beretta: 84FS Cheetah, PX4 Storm; Browning: High Power, .380 Auto, BDA; Colt: Agent, Cobra, Detective Special, Diamondback, Lawman, Police Positive, Python, Trooper, Government Model, Commander, Combat Commander; FN-Herstal: FNP-9; Mauser: P08 Luger; Ruger: Blackhawk; Smith & Wesson: Model 10, Model 12, Model 15, Model 19, Model 27, Model 28, Model 29, Model 36, Model 37, Model 39, Model 57, Model 58, Model 59, Model 60, Model 637. Walther: P-38, PP, PPK, PPK/S, PK380. How many of these could I control? All of them.
So why don't I bow down to the Dictums of DavidE? I don't have to.
If I really want to bust my knuckles, I can. I can load my S&W J-frame Airweight with hot +P ammunition or my Model 60 with full-boat .357 Magnums. Both are real attention-getters. I prefer to load them with .38 Special ammunition with a 110- to 125-grain bullet. But I really prefer the higher capacity of my .380s.
Larger-caliber automatics? No problem! I've got two 9 mm pistols and, weather and clothing permitting, I carry one when I can. .45 ACP? I don't like single-action pistols, I don't like beavertails and I think they are way overpriced. I realize that, to many, the Kimber is the Holy Grail of handguns, and that's fine for them; everything I have ever read about Kimbers says they are outstanding firearms. However, if given a Kimber, I would own it exactly long enough to sell it and get something else.
And the Kahr, while beloved by many, would never find its way into my collection: I refuse to support Reverend Moon.
Are you seeing a pattern here, DavidE? It's not that I can't handle a particular gun, it's that I don't want to. It's a choice, not a shortcoming.
Erik M
Member
I have owned a bersa for 2 years and it performed so well that one ofmy brothers bought one new from a local dealer for his collection. It is very small in my hands, and it fills the occasional role of primary weapon in the hot months.
oldfool
Member
some of y'all hard headed folks just don't get it
gentleman poster is obsessive compulsive about shot timers and IPSC/IDPA drills and power levels
hey, if you were into it real deep, you would be, too
which is why he is pumping the same theme song simultaneously though loud speakers on at least three "unrelated" threads here right now
(not that there is anything wrong with that, or CAS/SASS, or whatever else your "thing" is)
somebody just tell him that a 1.00 second draw plus 0.20 second splits is considered pretty good for IPSC competition
quit making fun of shooting loose groups at 5 yards as "the" defining attribute of good shooting
admit that anything too wussie for major or minor in IPSC is just too wussie for you too
let's all give him a big round of applause, praise the pics
and then maybe every post in the handgun forum will not be littered with pics of loose groups with quick splits
or... keep feeding the... post
we just might make that 200 post count yet
gentleman poster is obsessive compulsive about shot timers and IPSC/IDPA drills and power levels
hey, if you were into it real deep, you would be, too
which is why he is pumping the same theme song simultaneously though loud speakers on at least three "unrelated" threads here right now
(not that there is anything wrong with that, or CAS/SASS, or whatever else your "thing" is)
somebody just tell him that a 1.00 second draw plus 0.20 second splits is considered pretty good for IPSC competition
quit making fun of shooting loose groups at 5 yards as "the" defining attribute of good shooting
admit that anything too wussie for major or minor in IPSC is just too wussie for you too
let's all give him a big round of applause, praise the pics
and then maybe every post in the handgun forum will not be littered with pics of loose groups with quick splits
or... keep feeding the... post
we just might make that 200 post count yet
I'm happily missing the reason for the 'fight,' over the LCP - and I don't mind.
However, the .380 has its practical uses. It's a nice firearm.
As to 1s draws and .20 splits ... I recall doing better than that.
You all have a nice day and stay safe.
However, the .380 has its practical uses. It's a nice firearm.
As to 1s draws and .20 splits ... I recall doing better than that.
You all have a nice day and stay safe.
David E
Member
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- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7,459
As I've said multiple times, _I_ am unwilling to make that choice. And, as I've also said multiple times, I don't care what you carry.
This would be my #7 in post 185
Yes, I am. Some people ignore the words I actually wrote and instead, attack what they think I wrote. (seems to be consistently the same people, too.....)
IMTHDUKE
Member
I just love it when friends agree
David E
Member
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- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7,459
Not at all, I just use the shot timers to establish reality regarding defensive handgun skills. I realize that some folks would rather believe only their perception of their "skills."
As to drills, I asked for input or other ideas. old fool has not posted any alternatives.
Actually, that's considered "B" class.
First of all, it's not about bullseye shooting.
Second of all, the one thread I did start related to this one, "What is 'Control,'" has to do with trying to define.........(wait for it)...........control. IE; an attempt to remove the whole "perception" thing again and replace it with a factual time frame coupled with accuracy sufficient enough for defensive handgun skills.
I recognize that some people are far more comfortable with their supercilious self assessment of their handgun prowess than going out and proving to themselves that their generous assessment was way off.
I consider a timer an essential tool to establish and gauge reality. I dry fire a lot, and having a timer as a start and end signal provides a whole different atmosphere. It's hard do dismiss the splits times (why the irregularity?) the timer registers that could be used to gauge one's improvement. It's like shooting without targets and ignoring hits and points.
A timer is a tool one does not need to utilize all the time. Shooting must also be fun. I know no single serious shooter / instructor that does not take advantage of the timer.
But, this is a free country, we are allowed to enjoy shooting any which way we want as long as it's safe.
Enjoy your day.
Fastcast
Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 874
I then shot my current carry gun, the previously mentioned Kimber Compact Aluminum Stainless (alloy frame).
My best time with that?
1.32
So I see you completed your scientific tests.
Did anyone really think David was going to come to any conclusion, other than, he can shoot his .45 quicker and more accurately than all the spitball throwers?
...... LMAO
David E
Member
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- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7,459
And I see you still refuse to see where your true abilities lie.........as you'd prefer to believe your own "I can shoot 3 rounds faster than you can imagine" fairy tale.
But, as I showed in the post that contained the times, I did second fastest with a gun I'd never shot before! I was a little surprised by that. In fact, I shot the Sig 238 far better than my Keltec .380, to the point I'm considering a 238 of my own to replace the Keltec.
I'm sure I could tighten down the time frames for the DA guns if I shot them more often. The SA guns are pretty much where I think they'll be. IE; I don't see myself improving the times too much with the SA guns. But I shoot SA 1911's quite often, so this really isn't a surprise.
To be honest, I was little irritated that I shot the .380's faster than the DA guns, as some folks would conclude that I proved their point. Perhaps to a degree I did. The question would then become, "Is 12/100th's of a second enough to favor the .380 over a 9mm?"
I shot the Kimber .45 last and wasn't sure how that would go. (a previous 1.35 time that I shot a couple months ago with it had no guarantee of being repeated)
I did not think to bring a DA/SA gun like the Beretta 84. If I had, it would've been a 9mm S&W 3914. This has a much quicker trigger reset than the 84, but it still would've been interesting to compare another action type.
The runs posted were "clean" ones that represented current skill level. The Sig was, comparatively, easier to shoot than any of the DA guns. I had to work harder with the DA guns, not so much with the SA's.
I actually shot the 238 slightly more accurately than the .45
But, as I showed in the post that contained the times, I did second fastest with a gun I'd never shot before! I was a little surprised by that. In fact, I shot the Sig 238 far better than my Keltec .380, to the point I'm considering a 238 of my own to replace the Keltec.
I'm sure I could tighten down the time frames for the DA guns if I shot them more often. The SA guns are pretty much where I think they'll be. IE; I don't see myself improving the times too much with the SA guns. But I shoot SA 1911's quite often, so this really isn't a surprise.
To be honest, I was little irritated that I shot the .380's faster than the DA guns, as some folks would conclude that I proved their point. Perhaps to a degree I did. The question would then become, "Is 12/100th's of a second enough to favor the .380 over a 9mm?"
I shot the Kimber .45 last and wasn't sure how that would go. (a previous 1.35 time that I shot a couple months ago with it had no guarantee of being repeated)
I did not think to bring a DA/SA gun like the Beretta 84. If I had, it would've been a 9mm S&W 3914. This has a much quicker trigger reset than the 84, but it still would've been interesting to compare another action type.
The runs posted were "clean" ones that represented current skill level. The Sig was, comparatively, easier to shoot than any of the DA guns. I had to work harder with the DA guns, not so much with the SA's.
I actually shot the 238 slightly more accurately than the .45
Fastcast
Member
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- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 874
One of my buddies has a Star Model B - 1911 style 9mm with SA trigger and one day when shooting with him, just for the hell of it we loaded the 84 with 7-8 shots, whatever the Star holds and rattled 'em off as fast as we could, just to see. The 84 finished one full shot ahead of the SA Star.
Then we switched pistols, did it again and came to the same conclusion. Needless to say, we were both surprised.....Obviously we did this before .380 ammo was scarcer than hens teeth.
Then we switched pistols, did it again and came to the same conclusion. Needless to say, we were both surprised.....Obviously we did this before .380 ammo was scarcer than hens teeth.
sonier
Member
Ill carry mine you carry yours theres my argument disagree with me
theres my argument disagree with me
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TexasBill
Member
The SIG P238 is a sweet little gun: far superior, IMHO, to the LCP. I have only been able to fire the P238 one time, but I found it handled nicely. The locked breech and extra six ounces of weight make it much more fun to shoot than the LCP and I like the fact there's a bit more grip.
It's the only "pocket pistol" I would consider. My only concern is carrying a "cocked-and-locked" pistol in a pocket, so I would most likely go to a pocket holster.
We made it to Post #200!
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