I wasn't talking about the recoil link but the link about the .30-06vs.308. It was stating the best .30-06 ammo in the best rifles with the best shooters could only hold 1 MOA at best and the further out you got things pushed much closer to 2 MOA. Its a joke. The .308 has shown to have the absolute guilt edge over the .30-06 and it did result in a change in target size but a match .30-06 is sure more accurate than a 1 MOA rifle. A lot of factory rifles today in .30-06 are better shooters than 1 MOA.
Practical accuracy - 30-06 vs .223?
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Redneck with a 40
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Ballistically, there's not enough difference in the 30-06, to justify it over the .308. If I were rifle shopping today, I'd buy the .308, oh wait.....I did, a Remington 700 SPS Tactical.
I didn't mean to sound like the .308 wasn't the more accurate round, just that some "facts" about the accuracy wanted to state that the .30-06 couldn't hold 1 MOA at 200 yards with the best of the best out there. That's a joke. The .308 won/wins thats all there is to it. In some of these competitions though the winner is determined by thousandths of an inch, not 2 MOA or whatever exaggerated number that proclaimed expert wanted to make up. Case design does play a role. It can't be denied. Look at the 6PPC. It dominates the short range benchrest. If case design didn't matter it wouldn't be such a standout. What that doesn't mean is that those other cartridges that are no longer competitive aren't still far more accurate than almost everyone out there shooting them.
gga357
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Other than recoil. They should be the same.
Coyote_Hunter_
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Correct.
Correct
Wrong. Both cartridges run .470” just ahead of the extraction groove. The .308 win is fatter at the shoulder but the .30-06 is longer and is a tad fatter than the .308 Win at the point where the .308 Win shoulder begins.
Redneck with a 40
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With quality ammo and a quality rifle, the 30-06 should deliver 1 MOA. However, a quality .308 and match ammo is fully capable of .25 MOA. I shot a single .3 MOA group with my .308 yesterday, I was happy as a hog in s***, this at 200 yards too! I know it doesn't really prove anything, other than stellar accuracy is in the rifle, its just up to me.
jpwilly
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Advantage 223 for light recoil, quick follow up shots, and lighter handier rifles (in general). Otherwise the 30-06 has much more to offer.
Your friends are no doubt referring to getting flinchies from shooting 30-06 vs 223. Not that the 223 is more accurate. Matter of fact if I was shooting yotes with 30-06...I'd get some light 110gr varmint bullets and work up a fast lite load that's accurate.
Your friends are no doubt referring to getting flinchies from shooting 30-06 vs 223. Not that the 223 is more accurate. Matter of fact if I was shooting yotes with 30-06...I'd get some light 110gr varmint bullets and work up a fast lite load that's accurate.
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Redneck with a 40
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All in all, 30-06 is far, far more versatile than .223. You can do a whole lot more with it, from cyotes to Grizzly bear, if you're brave and put the bullet right on the mark. Inherent accuracy of the .223 and 30-06 should be very similair.
JWF III
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It is physically impossible to make a .30-06 into a .308 without changing anything else. (Granted, a chamber insert would do it. But I'll let you look your whole life for a benchrest shooter that uses an insert. I'm not gonna waist my time.)
Yes you can set the barrel back, but then you're still changing the barrel length, harmonics, etc. You can replace the barrel, even with the same brand, it'll still shoot differently. Heck, two different barrels, by the same manufacturer, chambered for the same cartridge, (most likely) will not shoot the same, with the same load. At least a good 99.9% chance at that.
Here's the challenge for any one that wants to take up the test. Build a rifle with a custom grade barrel (Lilja, Shilen, Krieger, etc.). Use any length action you want (since it's a test you don't have to worry about magazine function). Chamber the gun in .308, break the barrel in, and shoot for the best group possible (limited to 200 rounds of trial and error). Then ream the chamber out to .30-06 and repeat the best group possible tests. In testing, have the gun locked down to eliminate shooter error. After these tests are completed, then and only then, would there be an answer to the question. My bet is that they'll shoot the same (within a small range of error and only because we're limiting the load development to save the barrel life for the other tests).
Who's up for the challenge?
What problems might there be with this experiment?
And like I said in my first post, if it works for the OP. (Remember he was talking the difference between .30-06 and .223, for a predator hunting rifle.) If it works for the intended use, why change?
Wyman
He was saying the .308 to be more accurate and dominating in classes it and the .30-06 were the two options allowed. I agree with that statement. He said targets shrank with the switch, which I agree with. Then he said the best .30-06 out there with the best shooters could only hold at best 1 MOA up close and closer to 2 MOA the farther out it went while the .308 shot 1/2 MOA at 1000 yards. I'm not arguing anything about what the .308 can or can't do but when he says the best a match grade .30-06 setup with match ammo and a top notch shooter can do is 1-2 MOA its a joke. I don't want to say the .308 didn't make a huge jump in scores, it certainly did, but it doesn't mean the .30-06 isn't capable of 1 MOA out of today's factory rifles, let alone top notch match setups.
The real point I was trying to make is shown better in short range bench rest. The top rifles with great shooters can hold in the .1xx or even in the .0xx" range. While only a cartridge or two are used in these competitions it doesn't mean that the rounds that have lost the competitive edge, say that shoot in the .1xx-.2xx range, aren't still outstanding shooters and more than often have more accuracy potential than most shooters hold, which is the practical accuracy topic that started this thread. When you read articles about competitive shooting things take a total new perspective. Even if the change from one cartridge to another only improves scores by a few points or a few thousands most people in it to win switch to the best they can find for any slight edge they can get. Practical terms it doesn't mean much if anything.
The real point I was trying to make is shown better in short range bench rest. The top rifles with great shooters can hold in the .1xx or even in the .0xx" range. While only a cartridge or two are used in these competitions it doesn't mean that the rounds that have lost the competitive edge, say that shoot in the .1xx-.2xx range, aren't still outstanding shooters and more than often have more accuracy potential than most shooters hold, which is the practical accuracy topic that started this thread. When you read articles about competitive shooting things take a total new perspective. Even if the change from one cartridge to another only improves scores by a few points or a few thousands most people in it to win switch to the best they can find for any slight edge they can get. Practical terms it doesn't mean much if anything.
IndianaBoy
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The real difference.
With a 30-06, you can still kill the coyote, when it is hiding behind a tree.
With a 30-06, you can still kill the coyote, when it is hiding behind a tree.
Luv my 1897
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Get an AR-style rifle for them pesky varmints!
The 5.56mm is more accurate in that situation due to the lack of recoil. If you are a varmint hunter, there are many companies out there that advertise AR15 "varmint" rifles. They generally have free float 20 to 22 inch barrels that increases the rifle's accuracy. I would look into one of them through practically any AR-producing company. They generally all offer Varmint rifles. If you don't care about the hide or anything you could also consider a rifle in the 7.62x51 (.308) caliber. These rifles also have considerably less recoil than a 30-06. The versions with free float stainless steel 22 inch barrels are extremely accurate up to 500 yards and will last many, many years.
Bolt rifles are great and are pinpoint accurate, but a good semi-auto on the AR platform in any caliber are top-notch, very accurate varmint rifles.
I would suggest Rock River Arms, they only use Wilson Combat barrels on their rifles, which some consider one of the best barrels on the market for the AR-style rifle. DPMS also has a great line of varmint rifles in various calibers, so check them out as well.
The 5.56mm is more accurate in that situation due to the lack of recoil. If you are a varmint hunter, there are many companies out there that advertise AR15 "varmint" rifles. They generally have free float 20 to 22 inch barrels that increases the rifle's accuracy. I would look into one of them through practically any AR-producing company. They generally all offer Varmint rifles. If you don't care about the hide or anything you could also consider a rifle in the 7.62x51 (.308) caliber. These rifles also have considerably less recoil than a 30-06. The versions with free float stainless steel 22 inch barrels are extremely accurate up to 500 yards and will last many, many years.
Bolt rifles are great and are pinpoint accurate, but a good semi-auto on the AR platform in any caliber are top-notch, very accurate varmint rifles.
I would suggest Rock River Arms, they only use Wilson Combat barrels on their rifles, which some consider one of the best barrels on the market for the AR-style rifle. DPMS also has a great line of varmint rifles in various calibers, so check them out as well.
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