Practice shooting from awkward positions?

[highdesert]

Something I've started doing in the last couple of years is practicing defensive shooting from awkward positions.

(Disclaimer: I shoot alone in a desert canyon with high walls, and always check a sight picture on a new target setup to make sure I don't have a reasonable chance of a round escaping the canyon.)

By awkward, I mean, for example:

(Gun always starts in holster, and I draw from my normal concealment...)

1. Starting facing away from the target, proned out on the ground (as if I were just knocked to the ground from behind).

2. Starting facing sideways to the target, with my shoulder touching it. I might throw an elbow and back up as I draw and shoot.

3. Starting flat on my back, feet towards the target, or away from the target.

4. Walking in front of the target, dropping quickly to both knees, and popping back up to simulate being knocked off balance and getting back up to fight.

5. Seated in a chair (as in a restaurant), drawing slowly and keeping the gun concealed under a table, the bringing it up to a firing postion. Rationale is that if there's a way to draw without showing the gun, you should take advantage of it while the BG is looking the other way.

6. Leaned inside the cab of my truck (as though looking for something) with targets scatterd at my 6'oclock.

I do these with single and multiple targets. I try to keep moving throughout, generally diagonally away from the targets. The goal is to simulate starting from a disadvantageous position, in the belief that this is what any attacker will try to do to you. I know it's better to spot trouble before it comes to you, but I'm thinking about those times when you've had a bad day, the baby is screaming, the wife is upset, etc, and somebody surprises you.

I don't spend an entire range session on this. Rather, it's about 20% of the rounds I fire. Just enough to build some confidence and hopefully practice something I'll never need.

I'm conscious of the fact that, by drawing in unfamiliar positions, I increase my risk of having an accident. I try to mitigate this by going slowly the first few times in a new position. I'm a reasonably experience shooter, but not a master by any means.

Anyone else do this? If so, do you have some other drills to suggest?

highdesert

 

[don_hamer]

I think that is a good idea. I actually have never thought about doing that. Thanks for the idea. Have you ever thought to ask a LEO about different postioins?

 

[JamisJockey]

I would think the most advantagous would be being able to shoot from on your back on the ground.
The drill I've done is jog up and down the firing line, 20 pushups, then draw and shoot quickly.

 

[sacp81170a]

If so, do you have some other drills to suggest?

Some of our tactical drills that might apply to your situation: (If you can find a junk car, these can be done live fire, but if not you can always practice dry fire)

Targets in front of vehicle at 11 and 1 o'clock at 15 feet, draw and engage both targets through the windshield. This is done to simulate shooting your way out of an ambush where you're stopped and can't immediately drive your way out of it. ALWAYS try to use your 2,000 pound deadly weapon if you can. It's hard for the BG to shoot you if you're parked on top of him.

Targets on opposite sides of vehicle, draw and engage threats through driver and passenger's side windows. Simulates car jacking attempt or an ambush from the sides.

Targets on opposite side of vehicle on the ground. Draw and, lying on your side using the wheels for cover(beats nothing), shoot under car into the targets. You can actually skip your rounds off the pavement and up into the targets. Simulates shooting known BG's approaching your vehicle from the opposite side.

Lying prone, engage target using the corner of the vehicle for cover.

Just as a test, put a target on the opposite side of your vehicle's hood or roof with the target's head "peeking" over. Shoot the hood or the roof in front of the target and skip your rounds right into it. This shows you why it's a bad idea to shoot over the roof or hood of a car in a gunfight. Hard, flat surfaces are bullet magnets. Similary, the sides of your car (as when kneeling) are bullets magnets if you happen to be peeking around them. All in all, a vehicle is not good cover, so practice drawing and getting out of the vehicle as quickly as possible if it's disabled or you're stuck and can't drive your way out of a situation. Use the targets that you engaged from inside your vehicle; engage them as soon as safely possible as you exit your vehicle. It's hard to describe the exact procedure, but you'll figure out a whole bunch by trying it.

Remember, it's better to drive your way out than fight your way out, but practice both.

 

[sacp81170a]

Double post, oops.

 

[sm]

Yep.
How raised - what you do.
I first shot my .22 revolver at age 3.
First center-fire handgun at age 6 [Gov't Model of 1911]
Shooting from awkward or unusual positions started even then.

~~

Besides the Shooter 's skills -

The Firearms themselves need to be shot awkward to see if they will function.

Will your gun run :

-With only two fingers ?
[checking to see if injured, will the gun run or not due to not having a firm grip to interact with recoil to work the action.

-Upside down.

-Port up /Port down.

One may find themselves on the ground and having to shoot, back over head from lying on back, meaning the gun upside down.

Shooting under a car, and having to cant the gun.

Will the gun run? Will it run if used weak handed?
Will it run weak handed, and with very little finger, hand, wrist, arm strength?
Add blood, cold, sticky gooey and ...

Good idea to check shooter and equipment to know beforehand...

 

[Mr Kablammo]

I was just thinking of posting a thread on how to train for shooting from a fetal position. Does anyone have suggestions on that? Dry fire is practical but how would one train so as to not launch rounds into the great blue yonder?

 

[jt1]

From one of my previous posts:
"...I practice this every time I shoot or dry fire. Weapon close into the body, protected by the off-hand, engaging single and multiple threats at zero to ten feet or so. I run this drill both strong and weak. A good variation is to conduct this drill from the kneeling, sitting, and grounded (sides and back) positions as you never know how you will end up and if you have never engaged from a degraded position under stress it is a real eye opener. Most folks will shoot way low from these positions even at close range. I also practice obstructed engagement. You might not have time to clear your cover garments or pocket, I shoot through my jacket and pants pocket and even my holster (sorry, mika) every now and again from a degraded position and I know I can do it if I have to. (be very careful with this, dry fire a lot if you try it for real. We trained with BB pistols first and I shot myself more than once). The whole idea here is to try and prepare for the unexpected. Stay alert and be aware of your surroundings. Vary your weapons training with anything you can come up with that makes sense to you. Realize that no matter what scenario you envision if you ever need to use your SD skills it will probably be very different than you have imagined and you will instantly revert to instinct and training...."

 

[pax]

highdesert ~

Yup, I regularly practice downed defender drills.

One thing some friends and I did, not long ago, was to practice the downed positions with dummy guns. Had one person lie on the ground, and then one or two others move around that person. Started out with one "attacker" slowly walking in a circle around the downed person, while the downed person moved around as necessary to keep the front sight on the walking person. Then we had the "attacker" move a little faster, coming in toward the downed person at a trot and then a run, from different angles. Then back to walking (hey, we're lazy...) but this time with two "attackers" coming at the downed defender from different angles, and the defender thus needing to transition quickly between the different angles.

Again, all with dummy guns, not with functional guns. Could have used airsoft, but shooting wasn't strictly necessary as the drill was simply to familiarize ourselves with 1) choosing the downed-defender "stance" appropriate for each angle of attack, and 2) transitioning between "stances".

This dummy-gun drill my friends and I did isn't really something that needs to be repeated often, I don't think. It was an eye-opener, but now that we've done it & seen how it works for each of us, we probably won't need to do that one again for a long while.

In contrast, I do think that it's valuable and even necessary to practice shooting from the downed positions on a somewhat regular basis.

pax

 

[highdesert]

Thanks

A lot of good suggestions, thanks everyone.

I haven't talked to any LEOs because I don't know many, and the ones I do know would think I was nutty/dangerous (did I mention I live in California? A lot of alternative lifestyles are considered acceptable, but gun-nuts are looked at with suspicion). I prefer the anonymity of the internet

Doing pushups before shooting is a good idea. I've done the sprinting thing, but I'll have to try pushups too.

I like the idea of practicing in a junked car. I have practiced drawing my weapon and exiting my truck (seatbelt included) to engage targets, but for obvious reasons haven't shot through the windshield. I'd like to try that sometime. It's amazing how much more muzzle blast you get when shooting in/around your vehicle.

Another fun drill I didn't mention: have a friend randomly arrange targets, you close your eyes and he leads you to a starting point. Maybe you're facing the targets, maybe not. Maybe there's a hostage or a no-shoot, maybe not. Your friend takes cover somewhere and yells something like "watch out, he's got a gun!" You have to instantly recognize what's going on, hopefully you find your way to cover while you're shooting. Sometimes there's no cover handy and you just have to move and shoot. I've done this with friends who have only practiced the traditional "stand still at the firing line and shoot" method and it's pretty humbling. No matter what your level of ability it's easy for your friend to come up with a challenging configuration.

highdesert

 

[JamisJockey]

You're welcome. PT right before shooting is a great test of your ability to function under stress. Get yourself worked up, and practice an FTF (failure to function) halfway through your first mag.....it'll surprise you what your body won't do right when your heartrate is up.

In my opinion your drills shouldn't be so complicated. Be able to move and shoot, be able to shoot from cover, and be able to shoot your gun with it upside-down, canted, or sideways. Be able to shoot with your weak-hand, with sweat in your eyes, from the hip, mid-chest and with full sight alignment-sightpicture. Be able to shoot when your HR is 160 and pounding in your ears. Be able to shoot in the dark.

Good luck,