Preparing for an attack!

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Spirit 1

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Messages
49
In all the many, many threads I've read on a lot of firearms forums I've yet to hear this topic directly addressed: Preparing the home for intruder's attacks.

There's discussions of best type of weapons, calibers, cartridge or shell type, projectiles & various custom tactical mods. Lots about [ha ha] birdshot instead of 00, small caliber instead of .44 magnum, hollow points compared to FMJ's, but near nothing about preparation of environment.

Mr. Apartment Dweller is reduced to using rubber bullets or bean bag rounds for fear of penetrating sheetrock & wounding innocents or family members. Yeah, I exaggerate, but that fearful thinking is real valid.

What about nailing up several sheets of 1" plywood [even double thickness] in areas where loved ones are usually sleeping or at dividing walls? It's expensive in greater thicknesses, but the alternatives are pretty severe. Yes, it would do some damage to rented walls, as some nail holes, but those can be easily patched when it's removed. Most apartments will give a little can of touch-up paint, and a can of spackling is cheap. Even paying a cleaning deposit is a lot cheaper than hospital bills or funerals.

Another thought is investing in some electrical mods or doing it yourself. That is a panic switch near hubby's bed that sets off some strategically placed floodlights indoors, hooked together on wall-exterior fastened Romex. Shocks/disorients intruders and gives a clear sight picture.

Also a VERY LOUD horn hooked to that panic switch that sounds for several seconds, to again disorient intruders. Micro-processor timer could shut it off after a few seconds, & even fire another one off after that. Second horn is located somewhere else. We tend to look in the direction of noises.

I'm sure others have more ideas on how to prepare your home to make it safer & more defensible in event of needing to use deadly force to defend your family.
 
I think your better off putting your energy on the doors and windows, and an alarm. Very few perps will be coming through some method other than a door or window. An alarm warns you and in the perps mind should start the clock ticking on when he thinks he needs to go.

As far as armoring up an appartment, that is starting to sound a little out there. If you own your own home and are of this mindset, I would re-sheetrock your interiour house walls with 1/2" hardiboard, and fill the wall spaces with small rocks. That's probably as secure for the money you can get.
 
The most likely attack on your home will be the bank foreclosing. The very best defense is to have a year's salary in savings (not all in one bank account either, in case your particular bank dies).
 
Thanks all. I think I failed to get my point across. The suggested threads weren't quite what I was talking about.

The main concern was in a person attempting to defend themselves against an intruder & accidently wounding or killing a family member. So the first point was to reinforce walls somehow to prevent shot or bullets from penetrating through.

Many, many threads here & elsewhere worrying about what kind of gun or bullets or shells to use to prevent over-penetration. So, I'm talking about making that impossible in the first place by beefing up the walls where the kids or whomever sleeps.

Maybe the mention of lights & siren threw the thought off. My own house & situation doesn't present any problem and is 100% defensible, so I'm just worrying about others, with kids. As far as it being 'out there', well, I'd disagree if it's about a child's life being saved.

The lights & siren: Flooding the entire house with brilliant light makes it a lot easier to correctly locate target and not shoot a child or husband/wife by accident. The siren alerts kids to dive under their bed and stay there until the all clear signal is given. That is part of a drill they're taught ahead of time, again so a person won't blow up their kids.
 
Hmmm... To each their own, but I was never inclined to nail plywood to my walls back when I lived in multi-family dwellings. These days I live in a brick single family home, and don't really have these concerns.

On these forums we seem to spend a lot of time talking about the theory that most bullets that are effective enough to stop an intruder will also be effective enough to penetrate wall board. While I don't seek to make this discussion take a morbid turn, there is a part of me that has always wondered how likely it is that the bullet will cause a through-and-through wound on the bad guy, while still maintaining enough energy to penetrate both layers of the wall? I've seen ballistic tests that have shown the penetration in gelatin following a strike to wall board, but unfortunately haven't seen tests showing the penetration of wall board following a through-and-through wound on a subject!

In other words, I imagine that we can at least partially mitigate the risk of collateral damage by making sure that we keep our shots on target (I fully realize that this can be easier said than done in a stress situation... but I'm personally still not nailing plywood to my walls).

Obviously there isn't a one size fits all kind of solution to this problem, as each gun/bullet/building combination has its own capacity to penetrate/prevent penetration, and each individual has their own risk tolerance and willingness to modify their dwelling. My hypothesis about keeping the bullets on the bad guy might work with a handgun chambered in .45ACP shooting a GDHP, but would clearly fail if you shot the bad guy with a .300 WM loaded with a 180gr FMJ bullet!

I also wonder if you would be better off spending your time trying to find a bullet that would work well for a close-quarters living environment? My department is always worried about over penetration in our shootings, particularly when it comes down to us fielding our patrol rifles. We are currently issued .223 55 grain BTHP Federal TRU ammunition for our rifles, mostly due to the over penetration concern on the part of our administration.

I'm also aware of at least one close-range indoors shooting we've had with this ammo in recent years, in which a barricaded suspect attempted to shoot an officer as they entered a residence to apprehend him. In this case the subject was shot in the head with one of these bullets from a rifle with a 16" barrel, at a distance of probably less than 15 feet. The subject was immediately incapacitated (permanently), and the bullet did not exit the subject. Clearly this one example is not sufficient enough to represent reliable statistical data on this cartridge, but it does highlight that even rifle bullets aren't necessarily destined to go flying through the neighbor's walls!
 
Kindrox said:
I think your better off putting your energy on the doors and windows, and an alarm. Very few perps will be coming through some method other than a door or window. An alarm warns you and in the perps mind should start the clock ticking on when he thinks he needs to go.

As far as armoring up an appartment, that is starting to sound a little out there. If you own your own home and are of this mindset, I would re-sheetrock your interiour house walls with 1/2" hardiboard, and fill the wall spaces with small rocks. That's probably as secure for the money you can get.
Click to expand...
I would be concerned with the extra weight you have just added on to a structure that might not be built for it.

Really your best option is to learn to shoot better so that in the unlikely case you do have to shoot an intruder you don't miss.
 
I have a natural chokepoint in my home; the stairs to the second level.

All the bedrooms are upstairs (as are most of the firearms for HD) and I have somewhere between 200 and 240 degrees of coverage. If in the event that we need to leave, the third and fourth bedrooms windows can be used as exits to the roof of the garage.

Motion sensors in your home dialed in for distances slightly inside your ground floor windows are your best bet. Most home invasions won't come through a locked door unless they know no one is home.


Kris
 
In many of the same threads mentioned earlier, we've discussed preparing your 'fatal funnels' in advance as well. See threads like the one at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=435467 for instance.

Trust me, it's been talked about here- a lot. Try searching "fatal funnels" for some more examples.

Job 1 for any home defender is to have a home defense plan in place, and to have practiced that plan with the family. Said plan should ideally put EVERY family member in the house behind cover (you have to worry about incoming from the bad guys too), AND behind the primary home defender and his/her firearm.

Another frequent suggestion from yrs. truly is to go to http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx and read the course description for Personal Protection In The Home. Then look at the course locator and see if it's offered near you. If it isn't then buy the DVD of the classroom part of the course, which can be found at http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.aspx?productid=ES 26840 , and/or the textbook, which can be ordered at http://www.nrastore.com/nra/Product.aspx?productid=PB+01781 . This should lay the groundwork for selection of a safe room and preparation of a viable home defense plan.

hth,

lpl
 
I'm sure others have more ideas on how to prepare your home to make it safer & more defensible in event of needing to use deadly force to defend your family.
Click to expand...

I think the best you can do is to prevent access to the home in the first place, and the best way to do that is live in a situation were you are the one who decides what your yard layout should be.

That plus some strategic designs to the outside of the dwelling would go a long way to keeping your family safe.
 
It sounds like you live in a not so safe neighborhood if you were to come up with something like that. I would suggest moving out to safer apartment.
 
While no one knows what their fight might entail (they are all different), I think too many people think that John Woo will choreograph the action. Few of us will actually face a fight with multiple armed assailants in which hundreds of rounds are exchanged and both sides support their maneuver through your home with suppressive fire. I'm not saying that it has never happened, or that it won't ever happen, but it's better to spend your limited resources preparing for the threats you are most likely to face. There are no reasonably priced methods to harden a structure against small arms fire, especially one that wasn't built to those specifications to start with. It's also futile to try to find the perfect caliber and bullet that penetrates well enough to be a reliable stopper but also won't penetrate sheet rock. You can't buy the solution to this problem.

So if you can't buy the solution to the problem, what do you do? You train, you educate yourself, you spend hours and hours sweating on the range, working hard so that you have the skills to shoot your assailant without spraying suppressive fire all through your house. You read, you study, you spend hours and hours learning about conflict, you attend classes and seminars on solving problems like these. This isn't as cheap and easy as hanging 1" plywood on the walls so you can indiscriminately spray gunfire throughout your home, be it a detached single family dwelling, a town house or an apartment.

There is more to defending your home then owning a gun and hanging plywood on the walls so you are in your comfort zone spraying fire throughout the house.
 
How many people here have experienced a home invasion? Im getting a feeling of paranoia on the forums. I have only known of one person to have an home invasion, and he was doing some very illegal activities. What makes people feel that they are gonna be victims for this crime. Im not saying crime doesnt exist because it does. (robbed twice) I just believe there is a small group that just over stratigize.
 
While no one knows what their fight might entail (they are all different), I think too many people think that John Woo will choreograph the action. Few of us will actually face a fight with multiple armed assailants in which hundreds of rounds are exchanged and both sides support their maneuver through your home with suppressive fire. I'm not saying that it has never happened, or that it won't ever happen, but it's better to spend your limited resources preparing for the threats you are most likely to face. There are no reasonably priced methods to harden a structure against small arms fire, especially one that wasn't built to those specifications to start with. It's also futile to try to find the perfect caliber and bullet that penetrates well enough to be a reliable stopper but also won't penetrate sheet rock. You can't buy the solution to this problem.
Click to expand...

+1 on that

Also can't keep count of how many people think someone is gonna brandish a knife and walk 30 yards towards them with it. I don't see Jason Vorhees breaking into my house anytime soon!
 
I like the lights, hate the alarm or sirens. Being able to see is great. Not being able to HEAR is a terrible idea. You need a security system that makes it easier for you to detect threats and deal with them. Loud alarms make it more difficult for you to figure out what's going on, and at 3AM are as likely to disorient you as the intruder.

So, I'm talking about making that impossible in the first place by beefing up the walls where the kids or whomever sleeps.
Click to expand...

Forget it. You're better off getting a rifle or shotgun that will neutralize a threat without having to spray rounds. No bullet that can kill a man is going to be stopped by less than a concrete wall or earthen barrier. That's not practical outside of a basement. Concentrate on being sure you know your target, you can hit your target in all conditions and that one shot will resolve the problem. That means a rifle or shotgun, preferably with a tactical light on it.
 
Funny how people just can't seem to leave sarcastic comments out of their replies. Okay, so I see that the solution from nearly everybody who responded is to train. Fine answer, I never thought of that. That's sarcasm too, guys.

I also see that several of those here are so calm & cool and in control of every situation that they can awake from a dead sleep and instantly take command of every relative event.

3 bad guys nearly out of their minds on drugs, heavily armed, knowing 'That house has guns and we want them' crash down the doors at 3 am, ready to kill at the instant and are moving very, very fast!

Mr. Calmness awakens, calmly gets out of bed, puts on his robe and goes and wakes up the kiddies and carefully herds them to a safe place with their teddy bears. He has already armed himself and takes up position for some nice controlled fire exercises, being sure he doesn't get excited which could cause a minor drift in his aim. Then 1 by 1 he casually takes out the baddies with either brain shots or heart shots. After that he makes breakfast for everybody that survived, while calling authorities?

Sorry I posted in the first place. I was trying to save some lives and help others to prepare for a worst case scenario in their homes, and protect the lives of their children & spouse.

Sure seems funny that a very large percentage of threads on gun forums regard over-penetration of ammo in a domestic residence. I must be nuts for ever imagining to solve the problem before it happens.

Oh, and for those who suggest I train, move, take care of etc & etc. this wasn't about me at all. I'm near 100% secure, fully prepared ahead of time, entirely capable of dealing with any imaginable situation that requires defensive actions, have no neighbors and can shoot any gun I want in any direction safely.

I wonder how many of the responders here with families at home have had opportunity to practice what they preach, in the middle of the night, suddenly awakened from a sound sleep with multiple armed thugs breaking in to steal, rape, maim & kill???

Oh, and I read the page at that other link posted also. It's about the same as here, except for using yard sale dresser drawers or an old washing machine to cover stray shots. That doesn't impress me as the best solution, but what do I know?
 
What people are trying to explain is that there's no practical way of "hardening" interior walls to make them perfectly safe to shoot around. Plywood is not going to cut it unless you downgrade your ammo and firearm choices, which is a very bad idea. Therefore you have to use other methods to reduce the chance of hitting someone you're not intending to hit. A powerful firearm that is easy to aim firing HP or SP bullets moving fast enough to actually expand, for example.
 
What about nailing up several sheets of 1" plywood [even double thickness] in areas where loved ones are usually sleeping or at dividing walls? It's expensive in greater thicknesses, but the alternatives are pretty severe. Yes, it would do some damage to rented walls, as some nail holes, but those can be easily patched when it's removed. Most apartments will give a little can of touch-up paint, and a can of spackling is cheap. Even paying a cleaning deposit is a lot cheaper than hospital bills or funerals.
Click to expand...
:scrutiny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKhMOfaYwvE&feature=related

I've done pistol and rifle tests on various dry wall and flooring thicknesses and it takes more material than you'd want to put up on a wall to stop 9mm and 5.56 rounds.

Conclusion - No you can't practically put up enough plywood on your walls to provide cover.

Train with the weapons you'll use so you're hitting what you're shooting at. Get training from professionals so you can actually get better instead of ingraining bad habits. Spend the time and money keeping those skills fresh. Do it with simple weapons that you can run well.

On the other hand you might be able to afford to do things like put up counter height book shelves with enough material on the back to start to become some sort of cover when combined with walls and books. If your concern is bulletproofing sleeping kids, make sure the book cases on each side of their walls are high enough and strong enough to provide some cover.

We've discussed smarthome remote control interior lighting using X10 technology. You have no need to install surface wiring to control any light or appliance from select locations where control units are placed.

We've discussed alarm and motion sensors that are both wired and wireless that let you know someone is trying to get in and where they after they get in.

We've discussed having noise maker/trip hazard dogs in the home. Not rabid attack dogs, but family mutts that will let you know someone is at the door or in the house.

The first thing is to make it difficult for the BG to get onto the property and then make it difficult for them to get into the home. Make it difficult to move around the home easily without being detected. Deter them and delay them with a defense in depth approach both outside and inside the house. We've had numerous threads with experts in security saying the same thing consistently enough that a reasonable person might begin to believe that mundane things like fences and gates and lights and doors and locks and dogs and alarms actually do what they're intended to do.
 
Last edited:
Train with the weapons you'll use so you're hitting what you're shooting at. Get training from professionals so you can actually get better instead of ingraining bad habits. Spend the time and money keeping those skills fresh.
Click to expand...

hso speaks the truth

the time, energy, and money spent on trying to fix a software problem with more hardware is misguided at best.

train.

train with your family.

mindset, and tactics will outperform gizmos every time luck doesnt make the decision.
 
Oh, and for those who suggest I train, move, take care of etc & etc. this wasn't about me at all. I'm near 100% secure, fully prepared ahead of time, entirely capable of dealing with any imaginable situation that requires defensive actions, have no neighbors and can shoot any gun I want in any direction safely.
Click to expand...

Whew!

Can any of you mere mortals imagine that kind of comfort and piece of mind? :rolleyes:
 
Spirit 1 wrote:

What about nailing up several sheets of 1" plywood [even double thickness] in areas where loved ones are usually sleeping or at dividing walls? It's expensive in greater thicknesses, but the alternatives are pretty severe. Yes, it would do some damage to rented walls, as some nail holes, but those can be easily patched when it's removed. Most apartments will give a little can of touch-up paint, and a can of spackling is cheap. Even paying a cleaning deposit is a lot cheaper than hospital bills or funerals.
Click to expand...

Our member SM has suggested building a bookshelf that has plate steel or similar, and either positioning it where you can utilize it for cover, or positioning it where your shots might go if you missed in a likely confrontation scenario. Do a google search like this and you should find it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:thehighroad.org+sm+"tested+cover"
 
How many people here have experienced a home invasion? Im getting a feeling of paranoia on the forums. I have only known of one person to have an home invasion, and he was doing some very illegal activities. What makes people feel that they are gonna be victims for this crime.
Click to expand...

Not picking on you, but... it's more of a possibility then you think, and it's getting worse all of the time.

My family always keep our doors locked, day and night, although we live in a 'safe' neighborhood. There is always a pistol in my pocket, even when I'm inside.

A young woman I know from work did have her home (in Tampa) invaded by a 'crew' of punks who tied everyone up (including her parents), ransacked the place, and took turns sexually assaulting her. Her family are 'normal' people in a 'normal' neighborhood. Google "home invasion" "Tampa" -- scary stuff.

Chances are that I will never experience a home invasion, or a mugging, etc., but I will be prepared, and take every precaution to prevent the possibility.

Randy
 
If you want to harden your home, it is best to do it at the time it is built when it can be done at less cost.

You could make a hardened room for a few thousand extra at build time. In some areas, tornado rooms are now required as part of the building code. No reason you could not make it bullet resistant as well.
 
Hello friends and neighbors // OP, people could try making a wooden frame that holds phonebooks, which are free, creating a protected corner.
Perhaps make a bookshelf on both sides of the most unsecure wall over top of your plywood idea.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
Women fight off attackers
Replies
0
Views
406
Alex45ACP
A
dobedo
Home Defense
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
The Night Rider
The Night Rider
R
  • Locked
Some taking extreme precautions to Prepare for Flu Pandedmic
Replies
19
Views
807
Jeff White
J
T
  • Locked
Rifles for HD use and "overpenetration"
2
Replies
48
Views
2K
Art Eatman
A
Badger Arms
  • Locked
Who needs a gun, take the bad guy's!
Replies
8
Views
677
Kind of Blued
K
Back
Top