Preparing to move to California. How?
- Thread starter fulloflead
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fulloflead
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blackrazor,
Would me driving a moving van into the state with 7 in a box in the back count as "importation" if I didn't plan on selling them?
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Would me driving a moving van into the state with 7 in a box in the back count as "importation" if I didn't plan on selling them?
.
Fulloflead, did you bring them into the state across the border?
If so, that's importation. The PRK law doesn't state whether it's importation for the purpose of resale, or personal use. It references importation, period.
Now, as RileyMC pointed out, enforcement of said law is an interesting proposition at best, just like a lot of the other gun laws out there. So if there's nobody checking out your vehicle at the border, like at the Agriculture Inspection Stations (you know about those, right?), chances are you'll make it to your destination with those hicap magazines unnoticed. Same goes for those handguns and the mandatory registration. It just depends on how "good" a California citizen you want to be.
If so, that's importation. The PRK law doesn't state whether it's importation for the purpose of resale, or personal use. It references importation, period.
Now, as RileyMC pointed out, enforcement of said law is an interesting proposition at best, just like a lot of the other gun laws out there. So if there's nobody checking out your vehicle at the border, like at the Agriculture Inspection Stations (you know about those, right?), chances are you'll make it to your destination with those hicap magazines unnoticed. Same goes for those handguns and the mandatory registration. It just depends on how "good" a California citizen you want to be.
50 Shooter
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No_Brakes23
Member
Uh, not me. I've always maintained that California will be a lot better when all the @ssholes finally leave.
I love the Geography, Climate, and Income, but that comes at the price of Draconian gun laws and expensive housing.
The one silver lining on our difficulty of CCW is that there is no length limit on folding knives carried concealed. Not a replacement for a snubbie by any means, but good to know, never the less.
Like someone else pointed out, look at packing.org for laws and such.
And don't forget about wonderful towns like Yuma, Parker, Quartzsite, Carson City, Tahoe and Reno. They can be a Californian's friend.
Selfdfenz
Member
fulloflead
Auto=automobile
I have an associate at work that just relocated from Cali.
He made it sound like automobile taxes are very high out there. Not sure why that would be the case but it is apparently so.
Anywho.
The parts of Cali I have been to (coast around Laguna Beach and south) were beautiful. In one place were were driving up a pretty steep grade and oranges were rolling down hill the other direction. Not something you see everyday.
Best of luck to you and yours on the move.
S-
Auto=automobile
I have an associate at work that just relocated from Cali.
He made it sound like automobile taxes are very high out there. Not sure why that would be the case but it is apparently so.
Anywho.
The parts of Cali I have been to (coast around Laguna Beach and south) were beautiful. In one place were were driving up a pretty steep grade and oranges were rolling down hill the other direction. Not something you see everyday.
Best of luck to you and yours on the move.
S-
Blackrazor wrote:
So, what about newer model guns which were created after the AWB? If you possess a CZ P01 or FN five-seven with standard capacity mags in California, would you go down if you were found possessing them...or is the letter of the law so ambiguous that you could actually own them without fear of punishment? Or is it something in between?
So, what about newer model guns which were created after the AWB? If you possess a CZ P01 or FN five-seven with standard capacity mags in California, would you go down if you were found possessing them...or is the letter of the law so ambiguous that you could actually own them without fear of punishment? Or is it something in between?
FNFiveSeven
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According to an official statement from the CA DOJ...
OK, so let's say that you have a high cap for an FN five-seven. Clearly you must have manufactured, imported, bought/sold or transfered the mags after Jan 1st, 2000. Therefore, if they really wanted to, they might be able to prove that you must have violated the law. However, keep in mind that this is a misdemeanor offense and as such is subject to a relatively short statute of limitations. I don't know what the default statute of limitations is here in CA for misdemeanors, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than 3 years. Therefore, even if the DOJ can prove that you brought the mags into CA after 2000, they would actually have to prove that you imported them after 2002 (or perhaps even later) to beat the statute of limitations.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, but this is my best interpretation of how the law works in this case.
P.S. Maybe a lawyer could chime in here and let us know what the statute of limitations is for a misdemeanor in CA.
OK, so let's say that you have a high cap for an FN five-seven. Clearly you must have manufactured, imported, bought/sold or transfered the mags after Jan 1st, 2000. Therefore, if they really wanted to, they might be able to prove that you must have violated the law. However, keep in mind that this is a misdemeanor offense and as such is subject to a relatively short statute of limitations. I don't know what the default statute of limitations is here in CA for misdemeanors, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than 3 years. Therefore, even if the DOJ can prove that you brought the mags into CA after 2000, they would actually have to prove that you imported them after 2002 (or perhaps even later) to beat the statute of limitations.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, but this is my best interpretation of how the law works in this case.
P.S. Maybe a lawyer could chime in here and let us know what the statute of limitations is for a misdemeanor in CA.
You cannot legally bring with you any magazine over 10 rounds.
You cannot bring with you any gun listed as an assualt weapon.
All handguns must be registered (so they'll know where to come in 5 years when the outright confiscation starts) and there is a fee.
Most used pistols are not for sale in CA due to the drop test requirement. If there is any pistol you even think you might like to own someday buy it now.
If you are serious about the shooting sports and exercising your 2nd Amd rights is important to you then you will be very frustrated and angry living in CA. It's likely that by Jan 1 you won't be able to buy bullets or ammo in CA.
You cannot bring with you any gun listed as an assualt weapon.
All handguns must be registered (so they'll know where to come in 5 years when the outright confiscation starts) and there is a fee.
Most used pistols are not for sale in CA due to the drop test requirement. If there is any pistol you even think you might like to own someday buy it now.
If you are serious about the shooting sports and exercising your 2nd Amd rights is important to you then you will be very frustrated and angry living in CA. It's likely that by Jan 1 you won't be able to buy bullets or ammo in CA.
1911_sfca
Member
The statute of limitations starts after someone finds out you committed the crime. So if you are caught with mags clearly manufactured after the ban, you are still screwed.
Legally, you`ll have to let the hi-caps go. All the guns you listed are fine, but you have to fill out a registration form and submit the fee to the DOJ within a certain time period- i think 60 days. Now, that said, I don`t know anybody who has ever been asked about the manufacture date of their standard capacity magazines.
Oh, by the way, if there are any handguns you`ve always wanted to buy, do so before you move. Prices are rather high here, and guns go off-and-on the approved list all the time. Custom 1911`s, etc. are especially difficult here.
Oh, by the way, if there are any handguns you`ve always wanted to buy, do so before you move. Prices are rather high here, and guns go off-and-on the approved list all the time. Custom 1911`s, etc. are especially difficult here.
BerettaNut92
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fulloflead, what area will you be moving to?
FNFiveSeven
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Definitions of the "Statue of Limitations"
"Time period after an incident occurs during which a lawsuit may be filed regarding the incident."
-www.thelawencyclopedia.com
Sounds to me like it's not when they discover you commit the crime, but when the crime was committed. Claiming you commited any misdemeanor more than 3 years ago should be a valid defense. I think the "discovery" part only works in certain types of civil cases, such as fraud claims, which may go unnoticed for years.
Cornell's law website also seems to agree on the definition of the statute of limitations:
"A statute applying to both civil and criminal cases which requires suit or prosecution within a prescribed period of time following the civil injury or the date of the crime. See, e.g. U.S. v. Brockamp, Administrator of the Estate of Mcgill, Deceased, 519 U.S. 347 (1997)."
"Time period after an incident occurs during which a lawsuit may be filed regarding the incident."
-www.thelawencyclopedia.com
Sounds to me like it's not when they discover you commit the crime, but when the crime was committed. Claiming you commited any misdemeanor more than 3 years ago should be a valid defense. I think the "discovery" part only works in certain types of civil cases, such as fraud claims, which may go unnoticed for years.
Cornell's law website also seems to agree on the definition of the statute of limitations:
"A statute applying to both civil and criminal cases which requires suit or prosecution within a prescribed period of time following the civil injury or the date of the crime. See, e.g. U.S. v. Brockamp, Administrator of the Estate of Mcgill, Deceased, 519 U.S. 347 (1997)."
The law can mean little or nothing, especially if it works in your favor. Without going into a lot of detail, I once asked for a dismissal on a speeding ticket based on the ‘rules of evidence’; ‘no writing, except the original writing can be admitted as evidence’. The prosecution had not brought the original writing of the traffic & engineering survey into court. Nonetheless, the judge took ‘judicial notice’ that it existed down at city hall, smiled and congratulated me for being ‘exactly correct’, and found me guilty. 
Riley MC, traffic court is an absolute joke when it comes to judges following the letter of the law. It's like they will excuse just about every cop screw up in the world, no matter what. I have myself and helped others to get out of tickets, but in each case it was something that was an oversight by the cop, in terms of evidence (brought by you) which would explain why you did what you did. If the cop made a judgement call and did not know something which would negate your guilt somehow and you present it in court, then you can win. Short of that, forget it. The judges in traffic court are totally biased. My brother even had a case where the cop out-right lied about something in court...so it was his word against my brother's. Guess who the judge believed.
As for the statute of limitations, it is definitely from the time of the commitment of the crime and not discovery. I am positive about that. I had a friend years ago who was molested for a long period of time before I knew him. He somehow locked it away in his head after it stopped (the pervert a*****e moved away). Years later, something reminded him of it and he totally lost his mind. It was made worse by the fact that he could not press charges because of the statute of limitations. I will never forget that whole episode. My friend was changed forever...he pretty much went off the deep end, which was traumatic not just for him, but also for all who knew him--to a much lesser degree of course...And I will never forget the first time I heard of something called the statute of limitations.
As for the statute of limitations, it is definitely from the time of the commitment of the crime and not discovery. I am positive about that. I had a friend years ago who was molested for a long period of time before I knew him. He somehow locked it away in his head after it stopped (the pervert a*****e moved away). Years later, something reminded him of it and he totally lost his mind. It was made worse by the fact that he could not press charges because of the statute of limitations. I will never forget that whole episode. My friend was changed forever...he pretty much went off the deep end, which was traumatic not just for him, but also for all who knew him--to a much lesser degree of course...And I will never forget the first time I heard of something called the statute of limitations.
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Mornard
Member
Not How... Why?
fulloflead, I lived in California for ten years, and loved it for about 5. Then we got the Cali AWB, 10 round magazines only, 10 day waiting periods for EVERYTHING, mandatory pistol registration, Gay Davis' automobile value registration tax (some people drove around with "I just paid $800 to register this minivan" soaped on their windows), bi-annual re-assessment of property tax (hey, your house jumped up in value $5000 since January, please cut us a check for the difference in taxes), and (my favorite) the "if you own an SKS, you're a felon" law. Register them in 2000, and then "turn them in" in 2001.
Just since I left in October of last year, they now have outlawed .50 caliber rifles and will soon require serialized ammunition (which pretty much means they've outlawed ammunition, if nobody wants to add that step to the manufacturing process). You will not be able to order ammo over the Internet, no surplus ammo, just the "good stuff" they'll be logging in at the local gun shop...err...wait, the local gun shops have been getting zoned out of business or just going bankrupt for years.
My home in the Inland Empire was purchased for $149,000 in 2001, I sold it for $330,000 in 2004. If that's not evidence of an absolutely out of control housing market, I don't know what is. If you buy a house out there now, you will absolutely NOT be able to move away in a few years. You will have to keep paying on your $300,000 mortgage for a house that is suddenly only worth $150,000. Go ahead and stay for ten, twenty years, maybe the market will turn around.
I'm not going to call you names for moving to California, and if you do, feel free to call on me in Free America when you need unmarked ammo or normal capacity magazines, I know what it was like being behind "the Orange Curtain". BUT, I would caution you to think long and hard, and remember that $60,000 a year in Cali is about equal to $35,000 a year in a lot of places.
To you Californians that hate it when everyone runs down your state, remember I was one of you not long ago, and you have my deepest sympathies, just not my tax dollars and sunny disposition
.
S/F
Farnham
Just since I left in October of last year, they now have outlawed .50 caliber rifles and will soon require serialized ammunition (which pretty much means they've outlawed ammunition, if nobody wants to add that step to the manufacturing process). You will not be able to order ammo over the Internet, no surplus ammo, just the "good stuff" they'll be logging in at the local gun shop...err...wait, the local gun shops have been getting zoned out of business or just going bankrupt for years.
My home in the Inland Empire was purchased for $149,000 in 2001, I sold it for $330,000 in 2004. If that's not evidence of an absolutely out of control housing market, I don't know what is. If you buy a house out there now, you will absolutely NOT be able to move away in a few years. You will have to keep paying on your $300,000 mortgage for a house that is suddenly only worth $150,000. Go ahead and stay for ten, twenty years, maybe the market will turn around.
I'm not going to call you names for moving to California, and if you do, feel free to call on me in Free America when you need unmarked ammo or normal capacity magazines, I know what it was like being behind "the Orange Curtain". BUT, I would caution you to think long and hard, and remember that $60,000 a year in Cali is about equal to $35,000 a year in a lot of places.
To you Californians that hate it when everyone runs down your state, remember I was one of you not long ago, and you have my deepest sympathies, just not my tax dollars and sunny disposition
.S/F
Farnham
No_Brakes23
Member
Nothing wrong with comments from people who have lived here. It is the people who don't know much about Cali and still talk trash, (sometimes from states with worse laws,) that irk me.
Sometimes I think if OC, the IE, Imperial county and San Diego became their own state, we would have very different laws.
Ya know Farnham you're awfully smug thinking that somehow you're exempt from this one. I don't think you know all the facts. IF this becomes law (and that by no means is a forgone conclusion), and IF the ammomakers roll over and re-tool (and given that California is a HUGE market for ammo, and ammunition manufacturers are on record saying they cannot take the drop in sales, they just might)..........
...........lemme take a breath............
and given that the Dems WILL control congress again.........
just how long do you think before this becomes FEDERAL law and even y'all down in Texas are included?
The ammomakers are between a rock and a hard place. If they don't re-tool, they lose California sales. If they re-tool, it costs maybe hundred of millions of dollars and you can bet they'll lobby the fed. gov to make serialization nationwide to justify price increases that will recover the cost.
that, cowboy.
...........lemme take a breath............
and given that the Dems WILL control congress again.........
just how long do you think before this becomes FEDERAL law and even y'all down in Texas are included?
The ammomakers are between a rock and a hard place. If they don't re-tool, they lose California sales. If they re-tool, it costs maybe hundred of millions of dollars and you can bet they'll lobby the fed. gov to make serialization nationwide to justify price increases that will recover the cost.
that, cowboy.Gunsnrovers
Member
I'm still trying to figure out where you came up with "bi-annual re-assessment of property tax". You would also know, having only left last October, that the vehicle registration hike went away.
Gripe and critique to your hearts content, but get the facts straight.
Gripe and critique to your hearts content, but get the facts straight.
Maybe not...
It appears Remington has already stated for the record they will not comply with the new PRK ammo legislation if it becomes law:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144616
That represents a sizable chunk of business for Remington, both to PRK commercial and law enforcement sales, that they'd rather not retool for. Bravo, Big Green!
I'll never move back to California, but I do have a friend who owns a house in Reno. I wouldn't mind setting up a small business to sell unmarked bulk bullets, cast, jacketed, or plated, to the reloaders on the other side of the border. Just helpin' out those who couldn't get them otherwise, ya know?
It appears Remington has already stated for the record they will not comply with the new PRK ammo legislation if it becomes law:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144616
That represents a sizable chunk of business for Remington, both to PRK commercial and law enforcement sales, that they'd rather not retool for. Bravo, Big Green!
I'll never move back to California, but I do have a friend who owns a house in Reno. I wouldn't mind setting up a small business to sell unmarked bulk bullets, cast, jacketed, or plated, to the reloaders on the other side of the border. Just helpin' out those who couldn't get them otherwise, ya know?
Sorry, Gunsnrovers, but the last registration notice I saw (interestingly enough, mailed to Texas) was ridiculous. $225 for a Harley Davidson older than I am. $135 for a Planned Non Operation??? Maybe they figured since I was out of state I hadn't heard about the repeal of the tax hike? And the re-assessment thing came from Riverside County, I'd get two (and once, three) pink notices a year, extorting me for more money. You work off your facts, I've already worked off mine.
Well, Riley, I guess I am awfully smug.
Do you mean that you think the Governator might veto this? Or that the legislature might not pass it? Sounds a lot like the .50 bill...
I'm praying that Remington, Winchester, Federal, and everyone else pulls a Ronnie Barrett and cuts the Cali .gov loose if it passes, but maybe they won't. If they don't, I'm not sure how much "lobbying" power those evil ammo manufacturers have, Congress might tell them to get lost on that nationwide thing, eh? So now they can't recoup the losses suffered from retooling to satisfy California, and the guys from the power company don't get paid, so the machines stop moving, and we're all screwed...of course, if they do retool, they don't have to lobby anyone, they just raise the price of ammo. So once again, we're all screwed. Thanks, California.
Anyway, my point to fulloflead was that California was tough on gunowners and tough on property owners. Gotta get the money to educate all the illegals, you know.
S/F
Farnham
P.S. Now that I think about it, Gunsnrovers, of all the bad things I listed in my post, you take exception to the least important one, and accept all the other bad things like they're nothing important? Dude....c'mon...
Well, Riley, I guess I am awfully smug.
Do you mean that you think the Governator might veto this? Or that the legislature might not pass it? Sounds a lot like the .50 bill...
I'm praying that Remington, Winchester, Federal, and everyone else pulls a Ronnie Barrett and cuts the Cali .gov loose if it passes, but maybe they won't. If they don't, I'm not sure how much "lobbying" power those evil ammo manufacturers have, Congress might tell them to get lost on that nationwide thing, eh? So now they can't recoup the losses suffered from retooling to satisfy California, and the guys from the power company don't get paid, so the machines stop moving, and we're all screwed...of course, if they do retool, they don't have to lobby anyone, they just raise the price of ammo. So once again, we're all screwed. Thanks, California.
Anyway, my point to fulloflead was that California was tough on gunowners and tough on property owners. Gotta get the money to educate all the illegals, you know.
S/F
Farnham
P.S. Now that I think about it, Gunsnrovers, of all the bad things I listed in my post, you take exception to the least important one, and accept all the other bad things like they're nothing important? Dude....c'mon...
BerettaNut92
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Where is fulloflead?
I understand what you're saying, Farnham, but considering that Congress is comprised of re-election whores and money talks, I'm sure the 'evil' ammo makers can get their attention.
Look, the Republicans have been in control of the Congress and the Whitehouse for what, 5 years now? All they (we) have to show for it is bigger more intrusive government and deficit spending. Not to mention serious trade imbalances and job outsourcing increasing exponentially. They're relegating themselves into obscurity. The modern Democrats are hardcore socialists, and they WILL regain power. When they do, they will legislate with a vengeance in an all out effort to impose a statist agenda. You can bet that something like this bullet serialization scheme will appeal to them. If enacted on a Federal level, it makes not a whit of difference whether it succeeds or fails in California, the ammo makers will comply. You summed up the consequences for the rest of us pretty well.
Isn't it amazing how people seem to think California is the only state that has anti gun politicians?
California only serves as the test bed. You all seem to forget that Dubya stated he would sign a new AWB if it reached his desk. Let me see now...what state is he from...? Tennesse keeps putting one of the biggest anti gunners back into office. How about Missiouri? How many states are trying to get they're own version of the AWB passed?
When the Democrats regain power, AND THEY WILL REGAIN POWER, the whole country is going to be in for a real $&%# storm of anti gun legislation.
You all need to get your heads out of the sand and realize it can (and will if you're not very careful) happen to you.
California only serves as the test bed. You all seem to forget that Dubya stated he would sign a new AWB if it reached his desk. Let me see now...what state is he from...? Tennesse keeps putting one of the biggest anti gunners back into office. How about Missiouri? How many states are trying to get they're own version of the AWB passed?
When the Democrats regain power, AND THEY WILL REGAIN POWER, the whole country is going to be in for a real $&%# storm of anti gun legislation.
You all need to get your heads out of the sand and realize it can (and will if you're not very careful) happen to you.
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