Problem with sear not hitting hammer evenly

[hrivera007]

Hello everybody!

let me introduce myself really quick. I have been looking into this forum for a long time and learned a lot along the way. I have worked on and built a few 45's and some other types of weapons. I work for the Hawaii national guard as an armament inspector. So i got easy access to various tools and machinery to do some of the work on my own guns. we still got our accurizing equipment from back in the day.

Now here is my problem; the sear on my new 1911 built on a Caspian frame is only hitting the hammer unevenly. Here is a caption to demostrate:

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Side "A" of the sear is not hitting the hammer. also ther's a shiny spot on side "C" . What I did was dress and painted the rubbing points with a sharpee. I dress the high spots thinking that area "F' on the hammer was lifting the sear as it cams, but this wasnt the case. Only side "D" of the hammer is making contact with the sear on side "B".

I tried everything that you could imagine, I had this problem before but was able to fix it, but this one project has been so exhausting. I disassemble and reassemble the gun more than 100 times. I went part by part, from the disconector, dress the hammer hooks and check for the hammer being square using a lathe bit, I checked the trigger, sear spring and thumb and grip safety. I am using an Ed Brown sear jig, and also all the components are the "perfection" series from Ed brown. At first I thought I went too far with the trigger job, but after using 3 diferent sears, and all hitting the same area, am coming to the sad conclusion that my Caspian sear pin holes are out of tolerance.

I fired 100 rounds and it was fine, the trigger brakes super clean, but I know that gun is an accident waiting to happen. Also I like do things the right way, for me its no just about cosmetics, I want to make sure everything is perfect before I put the gun in a Ransom Rest.

This is where I need you guys help and input. If the holes are out of tolerance, how can I mate the sear and hammer correctly? Or could I be overlooking something else, a diferent part perhaps?


This is all thats keeping me from putting this gun together and taking it to the range. I would appreciate any help from you guys. I have being reading my books, watching videos and going back to my notes with no avail.
Again thanks for any imput.

 

[Drail]

I don't think your problem is with the frame holes, your hammer hooks just are not mated to the sear. I have had hammers that needed just a hair more stoning on one side than the other until the witness marks show even contact with the sear. A hammer jig would help a lot, but this can be done by eye if you're careful. Or you could try a different hammer. I don't think you have an accident waiting to happen, but you won't get the best trigger pull if you're only bearing on one side. I've seen a lot of Colt frames with mislocated holes but never on a Caspian. It's frustrating I know, but don't give up.

 

[Drail]

Another thought, do you have a good fit on the pins in the frame? Any slop? Do the pins fit snug in the hammer and sear? Oversize pins are available and may help. Since you said you have tried different sears with the same result I'm still thinking your hammer is the problem. I've had some that took a lot of careful stoning at a very very slight angle to get both hooks on the sear. Stone on the side of the hammer that is contacting the sear until the other hook starts to show marks on the sear. When you get to that point, it should start breaking much lighter. Make sure you have a good sear spring with enough tension on the sear and test with two rounds until it proves. You'll get it.

 

[BBBBill]

Since you have access to the tools, insert a gage pin in the hammer pin hole and use a depth mike to measure the distance to the flat below "D" and "E" on each side. That will at least make sure the your hammer is square in that plane.
It may be picture distortion, but your sear nose (and the area below it with the rub mark) do not look square. Use a dial caliper or mike to check that. I have seen a few sears that were uneven from side to side in the area below the sear nose ("C" in your photo). It prevented the sear from engaging properly until relieved.

 

[Drail]

Good advice. I thought maybe the sear looked off also. Have you used this sear jig on other sears?

 

[sniper350]

hrivera007
--- Do yourself a huge favor and go to brownells.com and purchase a set of "External Sear & Hammer PINS " They cost about $29.

This allows you to set up the SEAR and HAMMER ...... OUTSIDE of the frame and allows you to examine the mating surfaces of these two parts as they happen in Real life. You can then use a 5X loop to see exactly how the Sear is hitting the hammer hooks and what parts need attention. Unlike the Sear & hammer test Block .......the external pins take into account the odities of your specific frame ............ and shows what the mating looks like when installed back inside.

I found these PINS to be a must in doing a trigger job................ but many experts, I guess, don't need them ?? Maybe ?

JF.

 

[Jim K]

A quick and easy check on the frame hole(s) is to take a drill bit of the right size (and I don't recall which sizes off hand) and insert it in the holes. If they are not straight and in alignment, you can see it instantly. Surprisingly, out-of-alingment holes are not too uncommon with after-market frames; another maker had a lot of trouble with all those holes until they got new tooling.

Jim

 

[hrivera007]

Hi guys and thanks for all the replies.
Yes the sear nose is uneven. Somehow the Ed Browns sear jig is cutting the sear uneven. But I put the other sears in the gun, brand new without cutting any angles on the sear jig and the problem was the same with those sears. Am still trying to fix it. i will keep you guys posted and show you the gun after is done..

Again thanks

 

[hrivera007]

Tomorrow at work I will start taking measurements.

Drail, I pulled out some other sear and hammer pins( genuine pins used for the national guard marksmanship team guns)and compared them with the Ed bron pins, to my surprise the ed brown pins were actually slightly bigger.

Tomorrow I will go at it again, but its a tiring process. Today I was kind of busy at work, so I had little time to work on the gun, but in that short time I took the gun aprt and reassemble like 40 times.

Tomorrow is another day. I will keep you posted.

 

[Drail]

hrivera007, Good to see you aren't giving up. Your picture of the sear does look like it's a little off. If the pin used to hold it in the jig allows much movement, it will be cut unevenly. If the pins in the gun allow much movement you will find it difficult to achieve the kind of release you want. If the pins in the frame are loose, get oversize pins and ream the frame for them. The resulting trigger will be worth the effort in the end. And yes, it can be tiring but sometimes getting a trigger right means take it apart and reassemble it many times. Trust me, you'll get really good at dis/reassmbly. If you stone the sear too much and end up making it too short, suck it up and get another sear. If you can get a copy of Kuhnhausen's 1911 manual it will be a big help. I am interested in your armory work, what kind of weapons do you get to work on? Please keep us posted on your progress. We'll try to help as much as we can.

 

[Drail]

Jim Keenan, thanks for your post, that's a good tip.

 

[Drail]

Sniper350, I bought a set of the external pins years ago but they were pretty loose in a lot of the frame holes I used them in. They are a great idea though if they fit your frame as they do allow you to see what's going on as you stated. And I didn't mean to come off as an expert to anyone. I learned a lot through trial and error but I will never know it all. Tuner seems to know 99% of it.

 

[hrivera007]

Am thinking investing on the trigger springs as well as other sear jigs and stones. I decided to put the gun back together. I will take to the range and see how it goes. Am planing on putting like 300 rounds through it and look at the hammer and sear again.

I wasnt able to check the sear holes for alignment. I will check that on tuesday. For know am going to serrate the slide, finish the front checkering and check the tension on the extractor.

I did all safety checks on the gun, it pass all of them, now I will try it with live rounds. Here are some pics, you guys can look what the gun looks like and some of the progress. Again, thanks for all the replies.

I was so excited when I got it.


Some of the tools that I used.

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Here's part of the checkering(it was an emotional experience). This is the second gun that I did with 30 lpi. Next one will be 20 or 25.

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[Drail]

Hrivera007, Nice pictures! So you found that checkering at 30 lpi is "an emotional experience"? Oh, yeah. Were your hands sore for a few days? I know mine were. Just wait till you do some 50 lpi. Your eyes will hurt too. That gun is going to be a classic 1911 when completed. Not many guys build two tones these days. Very nice. Please keep posting for us on your project. We are all eating this up.

 

[sniper350]

Drail -- Please accept my appology .....the "expert comment" was not directed towards you. Although it might have seemed that way.
I actually directed my post to the wrong person - you - when I meant to address it to hrivera007.


I should learn to type with better sentence construction. And also to slow down while typing .....my bad, for sure.


Yes, the PINS can fit differently in several pistols ..but the thing I find most helpful is the ANGLE relationship the PINS can exert on both the SEAR and Hammer. Since they stretch across the entire frame, they help to show how the sear and hammer mate -- even when they are a little loose. The idea of using drill rods is also a good one

Anyway, I hope we are good .......as no insult was meant towards you or anybody else, for that matter.

JF.

 

[hrivera007]

Thanks a lot Drail for the great comments. I just read one of your post asking what weapons I work with, (I must of miss it somehow). I work with everything for M4, M203, Saw's, m240, Mossbergs and the remington shotguns. We also working again with the M14, the Barret M107, Beretta M9.
Around 7 years ago I was cleaning my shop and found this box of Colt .45 parts and tools. I talk to my boss about it and he explained that years back our shop was in charge of accurizng the 1911's for our national Guard marksmanship team. He told me about the diference between the old timers and now is how much pride they took in their work and how their craftmanship showed in their 1911 work. He told me if youuilt a 1911 to standard you will learn everything about gunsmithing, from how to use files correctly, power tools, polishing, refinishing working with basic handtools. he then said I should start learning how to use a lathe to make my own tools, so I talked to the machinist and he started me off.

I then started buying books, (i do have a copy of Kuhnhausen's 1911 manual) videos from AgI and my first frame from Essex, built it and had one of the old armorers inspected it. After he gave me his blessing. I took it to the range and it fired so good, I knew I had to build another one.

The old timers were very impressed with me. Back in the day, they were sent to 1911 armorers school in texas, I wish they still do that, i had to learn by trial and error. The good thing is they left their old manuals, tools and blueprints on how to make tools for the colt .45

I also like working on Glocks, Ruger 10-22's and on my M4.

About the checkering, I still got to serrate the slide. It took me like 5 days to get where is at, and is not done yet. I had to tape my fingers by the second day.LOL.

I will buy the hammer/sear pins. Right now is just a budget issue.

Again, You guys been great. Drail thanks again for the nice comments.

I will be posting again soon.

 

[Drail]

Sniper350, no apology was necessary. I didn't mean to intend my remarks specifically to you either. I just didn't want anyone to get the wrong impression. Your comments and suggestions are very welcome. We are all brothers here.

 

[Drail]

hrivera007, You sound like one busy guy. It's great to see posts like yours and to hear about your experiences working on projects like your current one. There's something so satisfying about starting with a basic frame and finally taking it to a range and seeing it function properly. I am also glad you were able to have some time with the "old timers". We're losing these folks at a disturbing rate and I like to know that their knowledge and skills are being passed on to the next generation. And if you were able to impress these guys with your work you definitely have earned high praise from me. Yeah, I remember resorting to taping my fingers to keep that file from checkering my hands also. I can certainly understand why so many smiths have gone to machine checkering even though there's something special about hand checkering that can only be appreciated by folks that have done it the old way. I love the look on peoples faces when you tell them that the checkering they're looking at was done with a file. Usually they say something like "How long did THAT take?" And you just smile. You keep working with that checkering file and when your budget allows get a 40 or 50 lpi and do the rear of the slide. It adds a little extra class to the finished gun. I also loved to checker the hump on the Brown grip safety to match the checkering on the mainspring housing. When I was doing the IPSC thing I took all of the brass mag pads and checkered them and numbered them. My boss told me I was losing it. Keep up the good work and find as many of the old timers as you can and pick their brains. And keep us informed. I really like your two tone. Very classy .Thanks for the memories.