Programmed to be anti-gun

Status
Not open for further replies.
Heck, I was raised in Alabama which is a very gun friendly state. Most people could get a permit to CCW long before Florida set off the modern era of CCW in 1987. Yet I was raised to be quite anti gun. Mostly anti handgun as it was socially acceptable for hunters to own long guns for hunting of course.

Then in 1981 I moved to Texas for 26 years and the crime there forced me to get off the fence so to speak and decide one way or the other. Fortunately for me I had learned how to think for myself so after doing a bit of research I discovered the truth and HERE I AM! A card carrying member of the NRA. In fact I am probably more pro 2A then even the NRA. Especially when it comes to handgun ownership and CCW!!!
 
Please name one state that passes handguns out to anyone.

Any state that simply uses the NICS check as a basis to sell someone a handgun. Texas sold Maj. Hasan, a pistol that has a 20rd capacity, is known to have the capability to penetrate body armor, which he used to kill innocent people. In NY he would have had to obtain 4 references and interview with an investigator, after a throughout investigation was done. I don't think the judge would have accepted an Islamic Cleric as a reference. Florida gave Plaxico Burris a permit and he came to NY and shot himself with his pistol.

have you ever had a house fire, flood, earthquake or tornado?

No, I live in NY, those things don't happen here.

also, I met some idiot who has no business owning any firearm say he was going to AZ to get a Glock and bring it back to NY. He said I'd like to see NY do something about that, I guess Plaxico needs a new roomate
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Maj. Hasan, a pistol that has a 20rd capacity, is known to have the capability to penetrate body armor

You mean IIIA? Any hunting rifle will cut through it like a hot knife through butter. I assume you want strict additional checks for rifles as well then.

In NY he would have had to obtain 4 references and interview with an investigator, after a throughout investigation was done.

You need to make up your mind, though. Either handguns are useless toys for the mall ninjas, as you first claimed, or they're uber lethal tools of death that must be regulated by at least four layers of greasy eastern bureaucracy.

those things don't happen here.

House fires and floods don't happen in NY?? You must not even bother insuring your home or business.
 
Last edited:
Any state that simply uses the NICS check as a basis to sell someone a handgun. Texas sold Maj. Hasan, a pistol that has a 20rd capacity, is known to have the capability to penetrate body armor, which he used to kill innocent people. In NY he would have had to obtain 4 references and interview with an investigator, after a throughout investigation was done. I don't think the judge would have accepted an Islamic Cleric as a reference. Florida gave Plaxico Burris a permit and he came to NY and shot himself with his pistol.

the mouth-breathing racist remark can take a hike. [Moderator note: the racist remark was removed in the original and in the quote.]

...and he could have easily purchased a gun off the street if he really wanted to. In fact, I'd say the commonplace Glock would have yielded better results than the Five-seveN.

But, to get to the point: a person who has a mental breakdown and an idiot who should not have owned guns in the first place (he didn't even have an NJ permit - which is where he lived) and the rest of the 0.0001% of people who misuse guns are grounds for inconveniencing the rest of the law-abiding country?
 
lopenzi said:
I sell firearms and I see people who can't even operate a bolt action rifle and they want to carry a handgun.

I'm confused. What does being able to operate a bolt action rifle have to do with carrying, and knowing how to use, a handgun?
 
It is being taught at EVERY public school in America

Kids can not go to school wearing a Ruger , Colt ,S&W shirt without being pulled out of class and haveing the parents bring them a more "appropriate" shirt

No more playing Cowboys and Indians , G.I. Joe , Cops & Robbers etc. etc. -- and just look how good America is because of it
__________________

I was aloud to wear my Vegas gun store shirt in school that had a MP5 on the back of it, but then again I live in a very small town...there was a corn field across the road from our school. Even so many of the people I grew up with have more of a negative opinion towards guns than a positive one.
 
Gouranga~You wouldn't happen to live in 'Gate City' would you?
 
lopezni,

Based on the people you know, have seen, etc - I would say the problem seems to be that you really need to hang out with a better class of "people". There is a whole new world out there for you to see and experience.

Now, I know that sounds sarcastic, but I had to do the same when I was a young man. At that time, handgun possession was frowned upon and, therefore, most of handguns that I saw or knew about were owned by people I really didn't want to be around. After it became ok to not only own them, but also carry them, a whole new world of gun owners suddenly appeared.

Generalized statements that are based on what we can see in our own little worlds are usually only valid within that small part of the world.
 
Sigh.....

It is ALWAYS "Such and such loony used his firearm illegally to do x...."

Why is it that there is NEVER the same outrage that the victims of said loonies were NOT LEGALLY allowed to have a firearm to STOP the loony?


Why?

Banning ANYTHING has NEVER worked.
Alcohol? NO!
Drugs? NO!

The ONLY thing that gets banned or restricted when it comes to firearms is the DEFENSE of the honest citizen.

Banning and restrictions on firearms are nothing more than a ban and restriction of defense for honest citizens.
 
Seems that the OP asked a good question, and two posts later lopezni gave him a difinitive answer.

Lopezni - You have a bad case of lopsided logic .
 
lopezni, I moved from michigan to western NY, and I can't bring any of my pistols with me. I never had a carry permit in Michigan, but now I can't even POSESS my own property because of this states stupid laws. I have to pay the state close to 300 dollars to re-own my own stuff? BS!!

And the 4 people you must know to vouch(sp?) for your good standing, in the same county? more BS. I drive a truck all week, I have met about 30 people in my job and my girlfriends family. WHY am I asked to make friends in order to take back control of my own posessions?

BTW, yes almost everyone I have met in WNY is anti. I know of 2 other people who are actually into shooting and collecting guns, I know 2 other "fudds" who only own guns for hunting, and everyone else just gives me a funny look when I tell them i'm into guns. Their first words are always, "oh, your a hunter"? nope, not a hunter, not even close....
 
Anti-gun philosophy is a failure to think.




No. People you label as Anti-gun have a multitude of reasons that are not all the same. Some truly are afraid of guns, other's just support keeping them out of criminal hands (because 2% of gun show sales in criminal hands is 2% too high). You label them all the same.

They have alternate viewpoints on a social issue.

The inability or unwillingness to understand that alternate viewpoint is:

"a failure to think"
 
Lopezni:

Who needs the Brady bunch when ywe have people advocating the exact same sorts of things right in the industry? I could never bring myself to buy a firearm from a dealer with an attitude like yours. I might as well donate directly to Brady and Co. You're supporting them and their overall agenda, if not fianncially simply by your words
 
Hell, I've even met people who own a handgun and don't even know the caliber bullet it fires.

Then you probably don't have to worry about them firing it much.


Most people I've met whose only interest in guns are handguns, want their world to be like one of the stupid video games they live in.

While far from an expert on video games the shooters tend to focus on long arms, those firearms with greater firepower and employed by armed forces both real and make believe. Not handguns.


I don't have a problem with handguns other than most aren't very practical or worth the money. However I do have a problem with states that just pass them out to anyone.
You want to protect your home get a shotgun,

You go on to say how you dislike handguns or easy access to them, but promote a shotgun.
You realize with a hacksaw your typical shotgun turns into a much more formidable concealable (enough for criminal use) illegal weapon than any pistol anywhere in the same price range.
What would you rather look down the barrel of in the hands of a criminal, a sawed-off short barrel shotgun, or his pistol?
12 gauge or a typical .22, .25, .380?
Anywhere handguns have been outlawed modified long guns soon fill the role.

Texas sold Maj. Hasan, a pistol that has a 20rd capacity, is known to have the capability to penetrate body armor, which he used to kill innocent people.

Many survived, and had he been using a long gun instead he probably would have been an even greater problem. Had he been using a more potent firearm fewer would have probably survived. Many of those killed took rounds to the head.
I don't really think that counts against handguns. The typical service rifle on base or similar from the store would have been far more dangerous, and just as easy for him to bring into the building he worked in on base.
The availability of the handgun in fact probably kept him from using explosives, or a more potent firearm.
Which do you prefer, suicide jihadi armed with a handgun, or a suicide bomb? Do you want to learn he is a threat when he detonates or when he starts firing his pistol?
Pass out those handguns!
Sometimes it is better when firearms are the path of least resistance and alternative methods are not pursued.



In NY he would have had to obtain 4 references and interview with an investigator, after a throughout investigation was done.
Ah that is great. A 2nd Amendment originally intended to deter tyranny from government subject to absolute governmental discretion.
Governments in the last 100 years killed more people than all known common criminals and thugs throughout all of recorded history. Your common thug may be the immediate concern, but governments will still be the primary concern and threat to freedom long after we are gone.


What would you do in your utopia free from handguns when local thug comes in armed with the shotgun he stole from your local hunter, and you have no handy concealable handgun. You certainly are not going about your day with a slung long gun.
The truth is comfortable convenient concealment throughout a day is more important to the good guys than to the bad guy who technically only needs to cover it up from the car to the store, or to your front door (if even then.)
The bad guys may choose to carry easily concealed firearms when available, but they certainly do not need them, and do better without them than the good guys.
 
lopezni, you bring up a couple people who got guns who should not have them. I would remind you that in CCW states like NC we have hundreds of thousands of CCW permit holders and still our murders are carried out by people will illegally owned firearms, aka criminals.

I could jump on google and quickly compile a list of people murdered with knives, baseball bats, tire irons, cars, yet we see no efforts to make people fear and ban them. I would also note I had to go through 2 background checks, get fingerprinted ,and go through a CCW class to get my permit. I could tell you more on legal use of firearms in my state than some cops.

There are idiots driving cars that have no business behind the wheel. I have met some who could not even read road signs, yet we have stringent laws governing them, even a road test. I would bet the use of automobiles has caused many more deaths and injuries then guns in any state. A LOT of car owners have no clue how to perform routine maintenance or how to keep their vehicles in safe working order.

As for a gun having the ability to piece body armor. I can once again jump on google and find ammo that would pierce body armor for any gun I own, including my 12 gauge shotgun. My 12 gauge is easily bought in NY. I guess what I getting at is CCW really is not a bad thing. It is a great thing. CCW permit holders are safer and more law abiding than the general population, none of the states who allow it have erupted in wild west gun fights despite fear mongering that this would happen. Handguns are generally drop safe (something that cannot be said for many shotguns), and I have heard plenty of examples of 12 gauges going off when banged or dropped (like what might happen when you are woken up in the middle of the night by an intruder).

I think you would be surprised at the "class" of people who hold CCW and carry weapons around with them. How many folks I know who wear suits to work, women, professionals. In stark contrast with the gun toting rednecks anti's try to portray. I can also say out of the hundreds of permit holders I have met not a single 1, not 1 has any desire to kill anyone with them. In fact, most of us hope and pray that our self defense weapon turns out to be the biggest waste of money we have ever had.

I would also like to point out, I have a fire extinguisher in my car, yet I am not an arsonist. I also have airbags and have resisted the desire to drive into a brick wall to see them work. A handgun is a tool, a safety device. It is there in case that 1 in a million event takes place where it is needed. I choose to not be at the mercy of a criminals with guns. Our police in this city are AWESOME. However, if I dial 911 right now and report someone in my home I will not see one for at LEAST 5-10 minutes. In that time I will be dead or wounded.
 
Well, several things here. I am from SoCal and live in the SF Bay area.

First, I came into using handguns with the mindset that they are great for recreation. The sports involving handguns are more diverse than long gun.

I first purchased a handgun when my daughter started hanging around a turd in an SF Bay area prison with drug record and we had a fear that his friends might show up on our doorstep. Actually, that was my rationale for justifying getting back into firearms sports at the time as I am too cheap to otherwise spend that money for my own enjoyment. I now keep a 12 GA Mossburg 500 for defense and want to avoid any of my revolvers ending up in an evidence locker.

I have no illusion that handguns carry some magical power of destruction. My 12 GA and 30-06 are much better bets there. However, try lugging the long gun around for personal protection. Good luck.

The issue of high capacity handguns is just friggin stupid. My 8 shot revolver reloads in about a second and in competition I may carry six or more reloads. That's a minimum of 56 rounds. The bottom loaders may have 10 round capacity and carry six or more reloads. I repeat--the issue of high cap mags is BS. Of course with long guns reloads may be more difficult, but they do the job with a lot fewer rounds.

Finally, you are correct about the video thing--or at least confusing imaginary with real life. I have seen Japanese tourists at our local range grab two semi autos, swing them in the air and shout "Rambo!".

I have been a range safety officer for three clubs and do feel the great uninitiated public is dangerous in use of firearms. I think everyone who owns a firearm should be required to go through training on safety and competency. I also think those course should be offered free of charge to prevent discriminating against those who could not afford them.
 
Last edited:
lopenzi
You know for a guy who's been on here for a while that was an amazingly "Troll Like" statement. I think at the very least your argument could have been presented as a little less incendiary. I agree there are folks that probably shouldn't own guns, however, you seldom know that till they have them. It's unfortunate, but that is the way it is. People aren't mind readers. People also talk a lot of crap, but, that doesn't necessarily make them dangerous or ineligible to own a gun.
And please, don't use Maj. Hasan's rampage as ANYTHING other than a reason that those soldiers should have been able to carry. Because I guaranty you if one or two people IN that room at the time had weapons on them that sorry POS would have gotten greased after the first couple shots.
 
I've lived in NY my whole live and I have never been in a situation or seen one where having a handgun would've been necessary. I don't have a problem with handguns other than most aren't very practical or worth the money. However I do have a problem with states that just pass them out to anyone. I don't want every random idiot who wants a handgun to be able to carry one. I sell firearms and I see people who can't even operate a bolt action rifle and they want to carry a handgun. Most people think you just pick one up and start shooting the bullets will go where your hand is pointing. Most people I've met whose only interest in guns are handguns, want their world to be like one of the stupid video games they live in. You want to protect your home get a shotgun, otherwise if you feel the need to carry a gun on you, you probably are hanging around places you shouldn't be or one of those people who hopes for an excuse to use it. Hell, I've even met people who own a handgun and don't even know the caliber bullet it fires.
Thus answering the question "are there any anti's who frequent THR?"
 
I've lived in NY my whole live and I have never been in a situation or seen one where having a handgun would've been necessary.

The nice thing about humans is that we have an incredibly complex system of communication. We write, speak, use tone and inflection, body language, etc. This allows us to learn things without actually having to experience them or see them with our own eyes. On top of this, we have an extremely efficient means of transmitting this information around the world. Through TV and the internet, we can know what is happening, literally on the other side fo the globe, in almost real time.

Were you at Fort Hood when the shooting occurred? Were you at the bar with Plaxico when he shot himself? You weren't, but you know they happened because other humans were there and communicated what they saw and heard. You now accept these occurrences as fact.

Why is it, when you have shown through your own writing that you are capable of knowing things you haven't personally seen or experienced, that the fact that you have never personally "been in a situation or seen one where having a handgun would've been necessary" sways your judgment?

It is clear that you know about dangerous things . . . you brought up the Fort Hood Shooting.

You want to protect your home get a shotgun, otherwise if you feel the need to carry a gun on you, you probably are hanging around places you shouldn't be or one of those people who hopes for an excuse to use it.

Those soldiers that were working at their job at a military base, do you think they were hanging around a place they shouldn't be? Or should they have been carrying their home defense shotguns with them to work?

I'm serious. You are capable of knowing things you haven't experienced. Do you deny that innocent people defend themselves with handguns every single day? I know you've never witnessed it, but you do know that it happens, right?

Were all of these people that defended themselves with handguns in dark alleys in run down neighborhoods? Do you think they woke up and thought "hey, I hope someone tries to mug me today, so I can shoot someone. That would really make my day!"?
 
You want to protect your home get a shotgun, otherwise if you feel the need to carry a gun on you, you probably are hanging around places you shouldn't be or one of those people who hopes for an excuse to use it.
You mean like the Lane Bryant clothing store up the road from where my mother lives, outside of Chicago? Six women were shot execution style, five killed and TOTALLY defenseless because the legislators of the State of Illinois think it's better for five women to die than for one to defend herself with a handgun.

Or do you mean Virginia Tech?

Or maybe Amish school houses? Yeah, those little Amish girls were really up to no good. Do you think they "had it coming"?
 
I don't think the judge would have accepted an Islamic Cleric as a reference.
Really? Why not?

Should he accept a Protestant minister or a Catholic priest?

I just LOVE it when anti-gunners try to play to the imaginary bigotry of the diverse community of gun owners. They usually get it rammed up their colons, and I'm sure you'll be no exception here.

As I've said, bigotry runs VERY deep in the AHSA crowd. Usually it's racial or ethnic, but religious bigotry (usually anti-Semitism) is in play too.
 
I had a friend that was from Boston, he did not understand why I felt it was a good idea to have a handgun on me every where possible. After a few months he started to get the idea when things happend that were reported on the news and my response was "what could have been differnet if one able bodied person there had a legal handgun" I also had to explain to him that a gun did not "Just go off" no more then your car "Just started"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top